Yes or No on PMR-30

[Swampman]

I believe it would be a lot less prone to failure in .22LR.

[Spirithawk]

Dantana, just ignore Swamp. He just likes ragging on Kel Tec even though he knows he's wrong and I and others have pointed that out to him. If your's gives you a problem by all means let us know and just the same, if it works great let us know too. Opinions from owners are the only opinions that count!

[Swampman]

[Spirithawk]

You fail to mention if that was before they replaced plastic with machined aluminum. If you're gonna make a claim why not tell the whole story? Why not post a link to the pic so we can all see if it was before or after the upgrade and maybe the conditions it happened under, particularly ammo used? Heck, it only took you countless posts, throughout two seperate threads, to post 1 anonimous pic.
 
Read all the posts folks and take note of the dates. http://www.thektog.org/forum/f90/my-...lew-up-212590/ Then you can make up your own minds on the subject. I doubt any of you need someone telling you what to think, what to like, or what to buy.

Here are a few other comments on the subject, all up to date, and posted when I asked about the PMR30 and all from actual people that own one as are the ones in the link I provided.
*There were a few cases around a year and a half ago. Kel Tec found it to be partly ammo...and they did some changes to the slide ( Now rather than glass filled plastic they use machined aluminum for the part that failed. My words. ) Haven't heard of one in a long while.
 
*So far, around 27,000 PMR-30s have been produced, and there have been about a dozen documented incidents of a case failure which resulted in damage to a PMR-30.  I had one in April of 2011, and Kel-Tec took care of it right away.

Even though the PMR-30 is similar to the old Grendel, it is a new design, and it has not had a long usage history to work out any bugs.  This pistol has a unique niche in handgun usage.  It is a rimfire, so it does not fit in the primary defense weapon category, and being .22 magnum places it outside the “cheap” plinker region, although it is perfectly useful in either category.

I have mine because I wanted a semi-auto .22 magnum pistol, period.  It has been more successful than either the old Grendel or the AutoMags, and it has only gotten better over time.  Like I have posted before, the M1 Garand took several years before it was fully “battle ready”, and that was with the full resources of the U.S. Army behind it.  Kel-Tec is a small CNC shop in Florida, and it has done pretty well over the past few years.  I am eagerly looking forward to having an RMR-30 when they become available.
 
*If you see a PMR and not interested in getting it
Just post it here and Im sure it will be gone in 60 seconds (just like the movie)
 

[Spirithawk]

More info;
Out of battery firing is not possible on the PMR-30 (the trigger bar will not allow the hammer to drop unless it is fully closed, and the hammer cant even hit the firingpin unless the slide is forward), and you really can't assume that the bolt was at a certain place by looking at the brass of a ruptured thin case like the 22wmr. *Once the case starts to rupture the gasses exiting will force the case to spread out from the inital point of rupture, this spreading will push the slide back from the barrel (makeing it look like the slide was way open when the case ruptured)....sometimes the case may actually extract and eject like normal.

I'm not sure about the cause of this particular case rupture, but I have had similar case failures by simulating a squib-load before firing a live round. Damage was similar.

The slide lock lever coming off and the spring slipping off often happens after a case rupture. The extra pressure pushes the lever out, and spreads the grips just enough to pop the spring off.

Can't really call it a case head seperation, since the 22WMR doesn't really have a case "head"...case rupture is a realistic description.

According to the owner, the pistol was sent back to KT. After it's return, it has fired over 500 trouble free rounds. The ammo was CCI, but I do not know the exact type.

[Swampman]

And that makes it OK?

[Spirithawk]

And that makes it OK?

Your words not mine. I've said from the get go, if they are still having issues that's one thing but if your claim happened before the issue was fixed......well your faulty logic is pretty apparent and you've not shown one thing to prove the issue still exists. Every company has had issues with new firearms. Including your pet LC9 and denying  it is ignorant to say the least because we all know it to be true. You think a person can't google it as easy as the PMR30? What counts is how quickly and decisevely a company corrects any issues and anyone with a brain knows that. I'm not saying the PMR30 is perfect,  unlike your unwarrented claim the LC9 is 100% flawless and made of superior materials than any Kel Tec. One only has to look at each gun's stats to see if anything the reverse is true. But name me one single company that hasn't had issues with a new model. Not possible because there isn't any. Including some mighty seemingly well made very high dollar firearms! So to single one out is near sighted at best and makes any other argument you may have, even if warranted, seem rediculous! You don't start out to prove a point by insisting what the whole world knows is a lie. Did you even bother to read through any of  the posts in the link I provided? Probably not as your afraid you might read something that shoots down your one picture, no link, no detail argument. I'm not saying the PMR30 is perfect,  unlight your unwarrented claim the LC9 is. Swamp, I've known you to be reasonable....when you wanna.... be but you shot any chance  of taking you serious when you not only bashed the PMR but moved on to bash all Kel Tecs, all inexpensive firearms, the state of Florida and everyone in it. Dude grow the heck up! I'm not even responding to you anymore because you're just baiting. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it I don't think you even care if you're right you just want attention. People can make up their own minds without you trying to shove opinion down their throats insisting it's fact. Well, I just got a call that my mother is hospitalised with days to live so I have more pressing issues than pleasing your ill intentions.

[Swampman]

A dozen of these blow up and it's cool?
 
Just reading about the bismal performance of Keltec CCW guns over on the Bushcrafters USA forum.  Interesting stuff.....

[cwlongshot]

A dozen of these blow up and it's cool?
 
Just reading about the bismal performance of Keltec CCW guns over on the Bushcrafters USA forum.  Interesting stuff.....

I for one think you "beat" this one enough Swamp...

WE get it, you don't like Kel-tec. I suggest you not buy one.


CW

[Spirithawk]

Well folks, I guess we should all give up free will and concent to swamp telling us what we should and shouldn't buy. However we might want to add Ruger to his crappy inferior gun maker list. Why? Same exact reasons Swamp insists we should avoid Kel Tecs.
 
My oh my just looky here;
Ruger LCR

 
Also I took this from Ruger's own forums and there was more than one complaint of the same thing happening to others who own LC9's.........RUGER LC9 BLOWS UP!;
I was shooting my fathers new LC9 for the first time last week and I experienced what i call a significant failure. The extractor, extractor spring and a pin that appears to hold it all together were blown out of the gun. I fired the pistol and was struck in the face in several places by "shrapnel" which turned out to be these parts. I have never experienced such a failure with any other handgun and to be quite honest it was a little disturbing. This gun has fired less than 50 rounds at this point. When I looked at the gun there was a spent casing in the chamber and it was trying to chamber a second round. I'm assuming that the pressure in the chamber caused the extractor to be blown out of the slide. This is rather troubling to me because I also own an LC9 which I intended to use as my edc during the warmer summer months. I have fired between 50 and 100 rounds through mine and now I'm convinced that I need to do some serious endurance testing to determine whether in fact it is a reliable carry weapon. I'm posting this to find out if anyone else has had these types of problems with their LC9. The guy at the range where we were shooting said that they have seen several LC9's with the same failure. If you have experienced this type of failure with your LC9, please share your experience and what Ruger's solution, if any, to the failure was. ( My words here....at least Kel Tec admitted a problem existed and quickly cured the problem. Wanna bet there's a lot more than 12 Rugers that have failed and it hasn't been fixed yet? If it has an update is welcomed. )
 
At least Kel Tec only had one model do so and Ruger at least two. ( I didn't dig any deeper as two are enough to make the point. ) Hey Swamp, the math tells ya that makes Ruger at least twice as inferior as Kel Tec huh? And no folks, I'm not going to go off on a two thread bashing spree of Ruger. I like Ruger and own a couple.

[ronbow]

I'll buy one if I can ever find one.

[cwlongshot]

I'll buy one if I can ever find one.

YUPPERS!! 
 
CW

[coyotejoe]

Well I for one thank Swampman for posting something I otherwise would not have know about. You may think 12 out of 27,000 is good odds but it's not only your own eyes but the eyes of others around you which are at stake when bits of brass and gun parts go flying about.

[Spirithawk]

Well I for one thank Swampman for posting something I otherwise would not have know about. You may think 12 out of 27,000 is good odds but it's not only your own eyes but the eyes of others around you which are at stake when bits of brass and gun parts go flying about.

It would be more meaningful if not a problem already fixed. As far as that goes name me a new firearm that hasn't had a few bugs early on. Most all have yet some turned out to be  pretty good firearms haven't they? Dwelling on a firearm having problems early in it's release would keep almost every firearm made from ever being sold. Smart thing to do is wait a year or so till the bugs have been worked out which becomes pretty evident by actual owners reviews.

[Swampman]

The problem happened about 3 weeks ago and the picture was posted on Facebook.  How do you know it's been fixed?  Over a dozen of these have blown up.  There's no reason to hide these defects.  Let's get them out in the open.

[cwlongshot]

Well I for one thank Swampman for posting something I otherwise would not have know about. You may think 12 out of 27,000 is good odds but it's not only your own eyes but the eyes of others around you which are at stake when bits of brass and gun parts go flying about.

While I cannot disagree with your thoughts. Spirit hawk brings up real world response. Its unfortunate but the way it is today we the end users are the field testers. I mean I bet you would avoid the first model year of a new car/truck wouldn't you?!?  I for one ALWAYS do!! IF we took your tact AND knew about every potentially hazardous problem with almost any given product. I'll about guaranty the majority of the things you own or use daily you would not even own!!!

I'll STILL BUY the next PMR I am able to!!!

Don't for one second think Swampy is looking out for anyone's well fare, he is simply pushing Spirits buttons and stirring this pot. I find that the best tact is to ignore any negative comments and praise positive ones.

CW 

[Swampman]

I was just trying to warn others of the clear and present danger.

[Spirithawk]

I was just trying to warn others of the clear and present danger.

Yeah, that's why you used it as a base to trash a whole company but ok, giving you the benifit of a doubt;
1) I've asked many times which model you speak of. One before the upgrades or after? Anyone with  a brain can see the differance that  would make but you've yet to answer.
2) First you say the pic is a week old, now it's 3 weeks old. Why not simply post a link so folks are getting the whole story instead of a fragment of your choosing?
I for one would like to know  the full details. Was it an early model? Was it ammo related....as I've read it was? If still happening lets see the evidence as it shouldn't be that hard and you say it's everywhere. If evidence is presented proving the problem still exists I'll be the first to admit Kel Tec has some work to do....just like Ruger with the LC9 and many others. Problem is...you keep acusing yet a single pic is your whole evidence for argument. I'd hate to be tried in court on such evidence and I imagine others would feel the same. You're quick to point the finger so please tell us....is anything I just asked unreasonable to ask based on your acusations? If so why?  Now this is all I'm saying on the matter as nothing else needs said regardless of baiting and cheap shots to try and drag it out.

[Swampman]

It was a week old 2 weeks ago.  Now it's 3 weeks old.  Do I need to repost the picture?  We're talking about a brand new gun here.

[hillbill]

i have read a lot of stuff on the pmr30 but still dont know if it will shoot to poa with the basically non adjustable sights? if i cant zero it in to hit where i aim without holding right or left or whatever it is of no use to me. all my pistols shoot to poa or they go down the road.if it shoots moa at 25 yrds but 2 inches to the right, its of no use to me. fill me in guys?

[Spirithawk]

It was a week old 2 weeks ago.  Now it's 3 weeks old.  Do I need to repost the picture?  We're talking about a brand new gun here.

I can take a pic of my 1860 Old Army I've owned for 37 years and post it as a new pic. Big deal. That sure don't make the gun new. The only thing making the blown PMR30 your talking about as being new is your word. Frankly I'd like to read any info originaly  posted with  said pic verifying it was brand new, if it indeed was, and the cicustances surounding it's failure including ammo used. Try shooting too hot an ammo in your LC9 for a bit and let us know the results. Just repeatedly asked for the simple info anyone would question on any new firearm failure under the circumstances. What I fail to understand is why, if you are so dead set on posting facts to warn everyone of an imposing danger, you not only repeatedly skirt the true issues but avoid them entirely, and seem to think one picture says it all. Let me ask you this, in all sincerity, if I post a recent pic of a Ruger LC9 with the entire extractor assembly blown out, would you admit that everyone should avoid buying one? I think we all already know the answer to that so why is it that that door only swings one way?
Bottom line is pretty simple. If you don't trust a firearm, or simply don't like it, then don't buy it. No body is twisting your arm. But when others do buy it, and are quite satified they did, don't cry and moan about it because they chose to make up their own minds. Trashing their choice and calling them twits just makes  you look the twit.

[hunt4570]

I just found this thread...I've got a PMR 30 had one for a while now..at least 1000 rounds through it..nothing has blown up or anything!! great little gun, runs like a well oiled sewing machine...and swampman..you are just wrong on this one....and a way better gun than a LC9..no comparison..that LC9 is nothing more than a PITA to shoot..but you keep it and enjoy, and I'll keep my PMR 30..I love it!!!!

[csharps]

YES!  Add a Burris fast fire 3 and you are golden.

[Joe111]

I had one for a year and shot lots of rounds thru it. Had one or 2 stove pipes but that was all. It does feel cheap thou. Generally, I liked it. It kicks about the same as a .380.

[Swampman]

swampman..you are just wrong on this one....and a way better gun than a LC9..

Now that's funny I don't care who you are.....Keltec only makes cheap stuff.....they will never run with the big dogs.

[hunt4570]

I was just trying to warn others of the clear and present danger.

Thats great....HEY EVERYBODY... dont drive..got any idea how many are killed or maimed in car crashes every year!!!!!!!!

[Spirithawk]

Not mentioning names but some confuse cheap with inexspensive and seem to think others should too. Even when buying cheap themselve's! Seem to think you should only buy their choices as they are so wise as to be smarter than thousands of very satisfied customers. Go figure? Oh well, guess fantasy worlds are prefered by some just can't figure why they think you should live there too. 

An obvious question, why would Kel Tec want to run with dogs?  I'm betting they are quite happy with satisfied customers and making great firearms rather they peeing on fire hydrants. Don't lnow about you guys but personaly a guns quallity defined as a dog just don't instill confidence in me at all!

Want a lesson in futility? Ask Swamp to back his cheap shots with proof. Don't hold your breath though. Blue is not a healthy skin color! 

[Swampman]

Already submitted proof which you rejected.  If you want entry level budget guns then Keltec is one of your choices....Davis, Rossi, and Taurus also make cheap stuff.

[Spirithawk]

Already submitted proof which you rejected.  If you want entry level budget guns then Keltec is one of your choices....Davis, Rossi, and Taurus also make cheap stuff.

Noooooo you know perfectly well, as do we all, that you simply posted one pic that may or just as easily may not be legit. Since you've ignored the request to prove it is 1) recent 2) a current model 3) failed and continue to fail to provide any info at all as to the circumstances of implied possible failure and 4) you simply repeat yourself seemingly thinking if you say something enough times it somehow becomes true then excuse me if I take your opinion as just that..... a misguided, blatantly predjudiced opinion! Further more please explain to us all how one questionable photo, even if proven legit which has far from been done, justifies your, again "opinion" that a companies entire line of firearms are cheap junk. Particularly as the firearm you praise as being far superior has proven to have much the same problem as you acuse the PMR-30 of having. By your own reasoning that would make all Rugers cheap junk as well.

[hunt4570]

Swampman...Me Thinks Thou Doest Protest To Much...give it up...