Our Marines warned not to spit, among other things, towards mecca.

[powderman]

http://townhall.com/columnists/dianawest/2011/11/04/marines_warned_dont_spit_toward_mecca
 
 
You gotta read this to believe it. Don't even sleep with your boots facing mecca. I'm going to turn my bed around. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

Seems reasonable; who but a fool would want to offend the very folks they're fighting with/for? Why unnecessarily offend an Afghan Army soldier or translator you're working with?

The author, Diana West, thinks herself clever; in fact she's a first-class dimbulb. But then, writing for Townhall.com, that's okay. Is she the stoopidest columnist they have?

[Lost Farmboy]

  I don't believe it. When I saw the title my first thought was what do they do if there is a strong west wind and they have to take a leak? Then I read the second paragraph. I'd turn my back to the wind.

[Casull]

Seems reasonable

 
 
Not to me.  Having to pull out a compass any time you want spit or take a leak is insane.

[blind ear]

The only solution is to eleminate the objection. ear

[Pat/Rick]

 I'm thinking that the "jaded" personell will take that as a double-dog dare. Were I younger and serving now, I doubt the chances for an honorable discharge repeat to be slim.Christian churches can be destroyed, Bibles confiscated, christians murdered in an effort to make all islam, but compasses must be checked in case of the need to spit, urinate, etc as to not offend those that we (IMO) are wasting money and aid on?  The downward spiral continues.........

[powderman]

I'm thinking that the "jaded" personell will take that as a double-dog dare. Were I younger and serving now, I doubt the chances for an honorable discharge repeat to be slim.Christian churches can be destroyed, Bibles confiscated, christians murdered in an effort to make all islam, but compasses must be checked in case of the need to spit, urinate, etc as to not offend those that we (IMO) are wasting money and aid on?  The downward spiral continues.........

 
YEP. Probly more spitting etc now than there was, would be for me anyway. POWDERMAN. 

[briarpatch]

Cant comment... currently checking compass.

[SwampThing762]

Cant comment... currently checking compass.

Just verified east on compass.   I took my obligatory post pork BBQ washed down with beer leak in the direction of Mecca.   Had a good tailwind too.....

ST762

[ironglow]

Seems reasonable; who but a fool would want to offend the very folks they're fighting with/for? Why unnecessarily offend an Afghan Army soldier or translator you're working with?

The author, Diana West, thinks herself clever; in fact she's a first-class dimbulb. But then, writing for Townhall.com, that's okay. Is she the stoopidest columnist they have?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  WOW !  A stroke of brilliance there !     ..And the same goes for the pedophile worshippers..
  Uh...If you turn exactly away from Mecca to take a whiz...you're still whizzing toward Mecca..just the longer way around.
  I suppose there are many "Einsteins" who never thought of that !
 
     At least any thinking person can understand why many with common sense are leaving the military...at least the many troops who never drank the "political correctness" or "coddle the terrorists" koolaid.

[briarpatch]

I agree IG, its hard to piss away when you are on a ball... Unless you lay down on your back or belly. Think that might be coming?

[ironglow]

I agree IG, its hard to piss away when you are on a ball... Unless you lay down on your back or belly. Think that might be coming?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   Shhhhh!   Don't tell those Einsteins in Afghanistan..or they will scream & riot ...until some liberal promises to make the earth square.... or better yet, flat ! !       
 
   You might not hear much from Iran right now, Israel is about to make their earth flat anyway..    

[billy_56081]

I hope they haven't made it "against the rules" to turn over the dead muzzies face down and put a grenade under them. The filthy vermin will go turn that body face up as soon as they get the chance, BOOM!

[powderman]

BILLY. Do you have an xtra compass ?? I want to make sure I'm pointed the right direction when I'm in the woods.  POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  PM..Just pee toward the sun in the morning and away from it at sunset..

[blind ear]

Philosophies from when the world was cosidered flat.

[ironglow]

Philosophies from when the world was cosidered flat.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  Yes ear;
    An enterprising young business man recently went to Afghanistan.  He invented and is selling exploding prayer rugs...
   The sales figure are unbelieveable...   Prophets are going through the roof !!

[blind ear]

Sometimes inflation is good. ear

[mdwest]

I'd like to see Diana West's source on this...
 
I know several Marines currently serving in Afghanistan..
 
funny.. none of them have been given the brief she refers to..
 
Everyone (Army, Navy, USAF, USMC, etc..) is given cultural sensitivity training prior to a deployment.. and certainly troops are monitored to make sure they arent intentionally setting out to piss off the locals whenever given the opportunity..
 
But Afghans dont pay attention to which direction they take a leak in (more often than not, they dont even pay attention to what they leak on.. much less which direction they are facing).. and they could certainly care less which direction the porta potty's on Camp Phoenix and Camp Eggers face..
 
As a general rule they think we have a disgusting habit of spitting.. they dont really get the tobbacco in the mouth thing (although I have had a ball teaching a couple of them to dip and teaching a handful of them how to smoke a pipe  ).. but never once have I had one ask me to be careful which direction I spit in.. or even imply that its an issue..
 
I even went so far as to google "Marine Spit Afghanistan", "Marine sensitivity training" and a couple of other combinations of words to see what would come up..
 
the only thing I found was Diana West's article, and a whole bunch of people talking about her article in other places..
 
I didnt find a copy of any USMC policy.. I didnt find a news release on the AP or UPI wire that quotes anyone in the military.. I didnt find anything related to spitting in the direction of Mecca in any USMC pre deployment brief.. etc..etc..
 
And not one Marine I asked about this said "yes, my CO (or my Gunny.. or my SgM.. or my XO.. etc..) told us not to spit in the direction of Mecca)..
 
Again.. I'd love to see her source (maybe I missed it?).. otherwise I'm inclined to think she either a) made this up.. or b) talked to some private or corporal that just spat our some BS that she never bothered to verify...
 
The last time I was on Bagram AFB there was a "quad" of porta potties right around the corner from the food court.. you could piss in all four cardinal directions, and on every azimuth in between if you were so inclined.. just depended on which toilet you walked into after eating your whopper with cheeze and drinking your green beans coffee..
 
Im willing to bet my next check that if I were to get on a plane and go back to Bagram tomorrow.. those toilets would all still be sitting in the same place they were the last time I was there..
 
Im waiving the BS flag on this one..
 

[guzzijohn]

Some folk on this board jump on anything that slams the president or Islam. Checking the validity of the source is secondary.
GuzziJohn

[Casull]

Checking the validity of the source is secondary.

 
 
You might want to hold off on accepting mdwest's unverified conclusion.  I went through about 5 or 6 pages of the google results and did not see a single contrary statement.

[mdwest]

You might want to hold off on accepting mdwest's unverified conclusion.  I went through about 5 or 6 pages of the google results and did not see a single contrary statement.

if you have links that verify the information put out in her article.. provide them.. I would be more than happy to admit that I am wrong...
 
that said..
 
I communicated with the site security manager of one of the major US camps in Kabul today... he doesnt know anything about Marines being told not to spit in the direction of Mecca..
 
I communicated with the deputy country security manager for one of the largest contracting firms in Afghanistan (who also happens to be a former Marine).. he is unaware of this being factual..
 
I have spent the better part of the past 4 years in and out of Afghanistan.. (havent been there in a little while however.. I admit that).. this is not behavior that I have personally witnessed..
 
I know numerous Marines, Army, and USAF officers and SNCO's currently serviing in Afghanistan.. none of them have said anything about this to me on any occasion..
 
 
not saying it isnt true.. I watched general officers turn Iraq from a "war" into a garrison environment complete with everything from road guard vests and reflective belts to MP's writing speeding tickets on the major FOB's.. and create a situation where everyone is more worried about being politically correct and enforcing stateside rules than they are worried about winning a war.. Afghanistan has been making that turn as well.. albeit much more slowly than Iraq did..
 
what I am saying is if Marines are being directed on a theater wide basis to be concious of which direction they piss or spit then there should be corroborating evidence of Ms West's report.. where is the general order? where is the POI that includes this in the cultural sensitivity brief? where is the AP report where Colonel X or General Y tells the reporter what the USMC theater policy is on such things?

if you found it.. I would love to see it.. I searched.. even asked questions of people I know that are currently there.. and came up with nothing.. zero.. nada.. zip..
 
if Marines are being told by a specific, low level commander to mind their manners, and this is the way he has directed them to do it.. that is a whole different matter.. that is a platoon, company, or battalion commander exercising his judgement based on the circumstances of his operational area, his mission, and his troops.. and is hardly the same thing as stating this is common policy among all Marines in Afghanistan..
 
 

[Casull]

not saying it isnt true..

 
 
mdwest, I'm not saying that it is true.  Just pointing out to guzzijohn that he seemed to be doing exactly what he was accusing others of doing.  This has been out for a couple of weeks, and I am surprised that there appears to be no contradictory statements (other than yours). 

[ironglow]

  Now, we've put a lot of heat on the subject..why not a little light ?
     Below is a photo of part of the mob in Mecca during Hajj...  Common sense would tell us that since they are each some days in Mecca...it must be concluded that most of them not only pee TOWARD Mecca...but they must necessarily,  by biological necessity pee and take a dump IN Mecca.  Wonder how they handle that ?
  There is a good chance some of them must do one or the other in close proximity of the big, black box of rocks .
 
  Do they behead some dude who has diahorrea on the day or two he takes to walk around the box ? Does a piddle get it amputated in the middle ?
 
   Sorry; photo comes late..   

[billy_56081]

Whyat we have here is, the "I read it on the internet crew", and the been there done that Crew. I'm sticking with the been there done that. Liberal parasites are taught, conservatives have learned from experience! That is the difference.

[crustylicious]

Here's my take:
Lady Di's article as posted above is the "let's get extreme and rile up the sheeple" version.
Only a couple of days earlier she posted her "extremeist light" version
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1933/US-Marines-No-Spitting-Toward-Mecca.aspx
Which was based on this article in the North County Times
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/military/article_3842bc35-1de6-55ce-a128-af70ed9a4571.html#ixzz1bfnj5VtZ
 
In essence her research constitutes distilling other articles with a wisecracking misleading slant. Disingenuous at best.
PS- Dr West- thanks for your service and insights. Looks like the traing was  going on at Pendelton not Afganistan
PPS- Glowworm, your numerous attempts at "potty humor" are not only self demeaning, they're not funny.
 
 

[Casull]

PS- Dr West- thanks for your service and insights. Looks like the traing was  going on at Pendelton not Afganistan

 
 
Duh.  Training generally occurs BEFORE they get to the theater.  But, thanks for verifying that the story was true.

[briarpatch]

Well this pisses me off.... checking compass

[mdwest]

Here's my take:
Lady Di's article as posted above is the "let's get extreme and rile up the sheeple" version.
Only a couple of days earlier she posted her "extremeist light" version
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1933/US-Marines-No-Spitting-Toward-Mecca.aspx
Which was based on this article in the North County Times
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/military/article_3842bc35-1de6-55ce-a128-af70ed9a4571.html#ixzz1bfnj5VtZ
 
In essence her research constitutes distilling other articles with a wisecracking misleading slant. Disingenuous at best.
PS- Dr West- thanks for your service and insights. Looks like the traing was  going on at Pendelton not Afganistan

Thats exactly my take as well. After reading the source article it is obvious she is picking points out of someoen elses work and presenting them with a completely different slant that is disingenuous..
 
would love to be a doctor.. but alas.. "md" are my first two initials.. not an abbreviation for my credentials.. west is my last name 
 
Im sure they have a similar pre-deployment cultural sensitivity breif at Lejune as well.. pretty much standard practice among all branches of service deploying from all stations these days..
 
thanks for the link.. comparing the two articles side by side brings a good bit of light onto the subject...
 
 

[mdwest]

Duh.  Training generally occurs BEFORE they get to the theater.  But, thanks for verifying that the story was true.

I see this in a totally different light..
 
the link provided verifies that the story is false..
 
while Ms. West has re-presented a small segment of information from the article referenced, most of it is taken out of context.. additionally she presents other information that is entirely incorrect.. thereby rendering the value of her piece of no value at all..
 
this is the same thing we talked about in another thread when TM7 presented an author of a book that did the same thing..
 
if we know certain pieces of your "truth" are in fact not truthful at all.. and if we understand that pieces of your "truth" are taken out of context.. then how can we trust anything you say? how much value does your work really have?
 
In the article run by Ms. West on 4 November she says "Uncle Sam has decided he wants every U.S. Marine equipped with a map and compass, or some other way of knowing direction. This is to ensure that no U.S. Marine in Afghanistan urinates in the direction of Mecca ever again. "...
 
that is a complete fabrication..
 
what the source article says is "Mubarak also said the Marines should never spit or urinate to the west"..
 
nowhere does it mention that Marines are being ordered to do so (as she implies), that they are being equiped to do so (as she states), and no where does it say that anyone is ensuring anything..
 
what is being said in the source article.. is that as part of a cultural sensitivity train up that spends hours focused on how to properly conduct yourself in meetings, how to avoid roadside bombs, and a host of other things.. that an Afghan national, civilian advisor is offering ADVICE on how to not offend the locals..
 
the reason this hasnt made "major" news.. is it isnt major news.. its a fabrication written by a small time reporter with no substance behind it.. that points to a single source article (also written by a small time reporter with only a regional audience).. that is obviously taken out of context..
 
here is a question for all the nay sayers.. it is sincerly not asked with the intent of poking a sharp stick at you.. it is asked so that I can understand your vantage point of the situation..
 
how many of you have served in the Army or USMC (ground troops)? how many of you have spent a reasonable amount of time overseas in culturally diverse places (the UK, and the Bahamas dont count)?
 
Here is the "truth"... cultural training has been going on in our military for a LONG, LONG, LONG time... it is a HUGE part of both initial training and sustainment training for our special operations troops, and has been since most of those units were created (1960's forward).. our SF troops are not taught about the religious beliefs, political systems, economics, language etc.. of foreign countries because it is the politically correct thing to do (PC didnt exist in the 1960's, 70's, 80's, etc..).. they are taught these things because it helps them operate more effectively in foreign environments, allows them to stay more safe (in a very hazarous operating environment), and helps them to more effectively kill bad guys..
 
does anyone want to question the effectiveness and/or capability of our special operations units? even in wars we havent performed well in overall (vietnam, etc..) our SF units have exceptional records.. and always have..
 
Afghanistan is an unconventional war, being fought largely by conventional troops..
 
as a result, conventional units and commanders have been pulling pages out of unconventional play books and using them WITH SUCCESS in order to kill bad guys and keep US forces safe..
 
All that said... recieving cultural sensitivity training doesnt mean that everything being presented is put into play.. no ORDERS are being issued.. an Afghan national is simply briefing US troops as to what he thinks is important to know about Afghan culture..
 
FWIW here is a picture taken at the Afghan National Training Center (ANTC).. ANTC is a training facility located in western Afghanistan near the Iranian border.. the picture was taken in the late afternoon.. (the sun is setting to the west.. the direction of Mecca..).. ANTC is a National Police facility where Afghan cops come to recieve advanced training.. training is provided by NATO troops (different countries rotate in and out of there).. there is always some level of US military presence there as well (Afghans, Europeans, and Americans are all living in the same place... ).. the small stone building you see on the base of the wall is an "outhouse"... care to guess which direction the Afghans are pointing their (How about) Private parts) when they go relieve themselves?  Just to remind everyone! This is a family site.

the Afghans built that wall and that outhouse BTW..
 
Ive literrally got thousands of pics from dozens of different places in Afghanistan.. I am sure I can find a couple of more with toilets in the background if you really think they are necessary..
 
her article is valueless..