Little help with my shooting

[Maccool]

I own a S&W 629 Classic with the power port with a 6.5" barrel and a Ruger Super Blackhawk with 7.5" barrel, both in 44 mag. I really like the Ruger but find that I can't hit anything with it, at 25 yards i can barely keep them on a 3'x3' piece of ply wood. With the S&W I can keep most of them in a 3" circle and all of them stay on a paper plate.  I really want to change over to handgun hunting, and have been practicing as much as I can, in fact in the spring I couldn't even come close to hitting a paper plate at 10 yards with the S&W and forget about it with the ruger. So what am I doing wrong?

[KAYR1]

This is just an idea, but I am wondering abou the trigger pulls on your two revolvers. Although most triggers are too heavy and rough for my taste out of the box, Rugers tend to be more so. Also, you are shooting one double action revolver and one single-action. Single actions (Blackhawk, etc) require precise hold, sight alignment and trigger squeeze, as they hve a longer locktime.
 
In short, I'd take a look at a trigger job for one or both of your revolvers, and keep shooting! Those tow things just came to mind. I'm sure that there are more experienced on the site to help you even more. Good Luck

[Ladobe]

Both firearms are easily capable of far better than 3" at 25 yards, even with factory ammo.   
 
Is the 44MAG too much gun for you?   Some folks can't shoot either DA or SA 44's well simply because they don't tolerate the recoil or muzzle blast well.   Some folks might tolerate one action style better than the other too.   You might be trying to over control the revolver more in one style than the other.
 
Doubt its the firearms themselves though, or even the trigger pull weight.   Some or it might be the fit of the grips to your hand, but probably rather your shooting technique (hold, follow trough, etc).   Mine for SA's is not the same as it is for DA's.   By design perceived recoil is commonly different to many folks between a DA and a SA, especially when shooting the DA double action.   Interestingly, how its perceived between the two is not the same for everybody though... some notice it more in the SA's, some in the DA's IOW.   To me a DA tends to recoil straight back, while I let a SA roll upwards, and I don't "control" either of them.   I don't perceive the recoil of one style as more severe than the other, but probably because I have been a handgun hunter since the 60's, and shooting handcannons far more powerful than a 44MAG since the early 80's.   
 
FWIW, I've had 4 or 5 S&W 29's with from 5"-8 3/8" barrels, a couple of 7.5" and one 10" SBH, and used them all for deer, elk and hog hunting with great success from the 60's to 80's at way, way longer ranges than your shooting.   All were good to go right out of the box, although I did rework triggers, etc on all of them eventually.
 
Your best bet might be to go to a range that holds organized handgun matches and see if a proven competitor will give you some range time to see what you are doing, and how to correct it if wrong.   That would be far more beneficial to you than reading my hog wash.   
 
YMMV
 
 

[Mikey]

I would practice with lower power loads, 44 spl for example, until you master both revolvers.  You really started practicing in the Spring, so you have been at it for about 6 months.  How much more handgun experience do you have with big bore magnum revovlers?  If not much, then I would start with lower powered loads and practice breathing control, grip and trigger pull.  I would also start reloading.. 
 
 

[tacklebury]

Just as a thought, on the Blackhawk especially, mic the throats and slug your bore.  Compare the two.  Usually if a blackhawk won't shoot, it may require throating since throats smaller than bore = inaccuracy.  I had to have my NMB .45LC/.45ACP convertible sent back to Ruger and they had to replace both cylinders and barrel.  They guarantee 1.5" at 15 yards, so if it won't do that, contact your dealer to get it returned. 

[Glanceblamm]

I really like the Ruger but find that I can't hit anything with it, at 25 yards i can barely keep them on a 3'x3' piece of ply wood. With the S&W I can keep most of them in a 3" circle and all of them stay on a paper plate

This say's a bunch and points to tacklebury's post about the Ruger having small throats. I personally have a hard time measuring a round hole with a square peg but found that one sure fire way to check the throats is to slug the barrel. The barrel slug can then be tried in the cylinder throats and if all is well, it will slide on through with very little pressure.
 

Is the 44MAG too much gun for you?   Some folks can't shoot either DA or SA 44's well simply because they don't tolerate the recoil or muzzle blast well.

One easy trick would be to shoot a couple of full cylinders, but then leave one or two rounds out on the third making sure to give the cylinder a few good free spins before shooting. If you are flinching, you will see it for sure when the hammer comes down on an empty.
 
I did not own any handguns until the 70's but can remember being disappointed on how inaccurate they were. Dont know what was wrong as I had good eyes with a clear view of the target and the sights and long to short, this turned out to be the problem. I have to credit a forgotten writer for his tip on "keeping the sights in sharp focus" and "Letting the target blurr out" which made an incredible difference for me.
 
Once you are in the ball park, dry firing can be good but dont over do it. You will know that your dry fire session is done when your cold and deliberate shooting starts to turn casual.
The dry firing can also tell you if the shot feels good or not making it possible for you to even call hit or miss!
 

[bulletstuffer]

Personally I think the felt recoil of the blackhawk is severe compared to the s & w.  That may have something to do with the accuracy issue.  Lots of good replies.  Have a seasoned shooter shoot the blackhawk, leave a couple of cylinders blank when you shoot and see if the gun looks like it is trying to jump out of your hand when you pull the trigger on an empty cylinder
 
Remember to squeeeeeeze the trigger until the gun goes off as it will kick the same whether you are on target or not.  It's that mind over matter thing.
 
Good luck,
 
Bulletstuffer

[corbanzo]

Find a reloader friend, and have him make up some 180grain loads under a small bit of titegroup.  You dont get much lower power for the .44 mag.  You should be stacking bullets on top of eachother with a low recoil round as such.  Once you get through a few cylinders of those it should relax your shooting quite a bit. 
 
If you are newer to handgun hunting, look up technique targets for handguns.  The have different areas which tell you what you are doing to pull your gun off center. 
 
And if all of this doesnt work, yes, get your ruger checked, they are well known for cylinder and timing issues.  I had a blackhawk that would take about 5% of the lead off every bullet when shot.  Send it in and they cleaned it up for me. 

[spruce]

Buy a Single-Six and about 10 bricks of .22's.  Concentrate on sight alignment and trigger control every shot and by the time those 5000 rounds are gone you'll have a good start towards mastering those two basics.

[corbanzo]

One more thing about a blackhawk... unless you are someone who has been shooting them for years and are used to how they feel, the grip can ruin your shooting.  I have a couple BH's and a single six and they all wear hougues.  The small slippery grip on a ruger single action is well known for not bein much to hold onto. 
 
The new grip definitely improved my shooting with them. 

[Lloyd Smale]

go and buy yourself a good 22lr handgun. Something like a single six. then shoot the snot out of it for about a year and dry fire it as much as you shoot it consentrating on your trigger pull more then your sights. If you cant afford another gun sell one of the ones you have to buy it. Then when your done with that buy a reloading outfit a cheap one can be had for about 200 dollars with everything you need but powder primers and bullets. Why? because no middle class guy can afford to buy enough factory ammo to really get intimate with a sixgun. Start your loading and big bore shooting with cast bullets and 44 special level loads and after you master them start stepping up slowly in power. There you go. Im sure you were looking for a quick cure but theres not any. Handgun shooting just like basketball playing or any other sport takes alot of repetitive practice. If your not willing to put in the time or money your better off sticking with a rifle.

[Maccool]

Thanks for all the help, I haven't been shooting a handgun that long and went from my High Standard 22lr to the 44 mag. so I'm gonna pick up some 44 special and shoot them for a while and practice with my 22lr more and work my way back up to the mags.
Now shooting 44 special out of the 44 mag, all I have to do is clean the lead build up before shooting 44 mag to be on the safe side right? How should the accuracy be with the specials?  Also if accuracy is good and I decided to deer hunt with the 44 specials what range would be your limit for it out of the SBH and what factory ammo would be your choice (I'm slowing trying to get into reloading)?

[corbanzo]

If you have lead buildup in your cylinders, you got big problems.  The "clean between switching cartridges crowd" are a bunch of worriers and obviously havent switched very often.  The thinking behind it is that the .44 special will allow powder residue to build up in the cylinder, making a longer .44 mag round stick if you shoot it afterwards.  That's a bunch of balognia.  Maybe if you shoot 5000 .44 specials out of it without cleaning you might get enough buildup to stick a cartridge... but probably not.  I've got some super low power rounds that dont seal the brass right away and i get residue on the front half of the casing/cylinder, and even those dont stick anything. 
 
The accuracy should be fine, some quote the longer jump to the throat with the .44 special as deteriorating accuracy, but the difference in lengths in the casings really isnt that much.  You get a bigger difference in length between 200 and 300 grain bullets in a .44 mag case than if you are switching casings. 
 
If you are looking to get into reloading, forget about the .44 special.  You can download to its levels in a .44 mag case, and dont have to worry about having different brass, .44 mag is much more available than .44 special.  The SBH is a very strong gun if you are looking for hot loads. 
 
Another thing I did was to throw some nail polish on my sights.  It helps a little, that all black SBH really doesnt do much to help your view, so i made a white outline on the back sight, and a bright shiny blue on the front, orange works well too.  Don't worry about finding sight paint if you want to try it.  Nail polish is more durable and has more color variety. 

[tacklebury]

+1 on the sights

[bfrshooter]

I am in my friend Lloyd's camp----PRACTICE because the .44 recoil is getting to you.
One thing to watch, never, ever let the grip roll in your hand, hold it tight enough so your arms raise instead.
Shoot from sandbags a lot so you can develop trigger control without moving the gun, then apply it to off hand. You must think every shot.
A friend to load the gun with some empties here and there and a billy club to use on you when you flinch works great! 
 I am up in the air about shooting low power guns first because your mind will betray you when it knows you have a KABOOMER. You think you are fooling it by dry firing, etc but even if you talk to yourself, your mind knows better---or is it worse?
Now look at the special and the poor lead factory loads. Mostly round nose I imagine so do not hunt deer with them. The special will kill but you really need to hand load with the proper boolits. 

[Mike Buchholz]

I have shot a lot of single action revolvers in competion and worked with several shooters to help their revolver scores.  The single most important thing in getting your groups tighter is your grip.  It is vital that you hold the gun exactly the same every time, including how tight you grip the gun.  On my Freedom Arms the hold for the grip screw is right where I place my middle finger so I use that as a reference point to keep my grip constant.  It is interesting to shoot groups while you vary your grip.  It is easy to get a variation of several inches at 50 yards just by gripping the gun tighter or looser.
 
By the way, I'm not sure how much I would follow the advice to grip your single action so hard that it does not roll in your hand.  They are designed to roll in your hand to control recoil.

[johnnyb]

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44mag and I agree on the grips being slick and hard to hold on to. Mine has the round trigger guard and I have had problems finding replacement grips for it. What I ended up doing was taking a wood file to the bottom part of the grip to reduce the width of it. I have big hands but the Blackhawk wood grips have always been uncomfortable to me. The new shape of the grips now feel a lot better in my hand and my shooting has improved.

[Mikey]

Maccool:  your 44 magnums should group the 44 specials very nicely - they might hit a bit high or low but if you do not adjust your sights for the special loadings it will/should help with sight picture and trigger control becuase you may not see the results of your group until you stop shooting, and if your groups are as good as they should be that means your trigger control and sight picture are getting better.
 
Corbanzo:  Hey man, shootin' 44 spls, whether factory cast or cast reloads, always ring the hay outta my chambers.  I have used some compensator cleaner to cut down on how much cleaning I have to complete after shooting 44 spls but it all doesn't seem to matter - I just take a roll of screening wire, chuck it into my hand drill and use that to clean my chambers.  It takes a bit longer but the chambers come very clean - if I didn't have so much 44 spl brass I would simply shoot reduced loads in 44 magnum cases.  But, my chambers are good - even the empties from my heavy 44 mag loads drop right out of the chambers...

[muslmutt]

I think I would be tempted to scope the pistol, or have someone else shoot it, to validate the accuracy of the pistol.

[SHOOTALL]

get a friend to load 4 rounds in the gun and 2 empties and shoot all 6. you will see if you flinch.
dry fire pratice at home. the goal is to line up the sights , watch them as you pull the trigger . the sights should not move and stay alinged as you pull the trigger. Get that down then aim at a target and pratice dry fire. Next a 22 as offered by others . When going back to 44 try spls not mags until you can deal with them.
Most think they can jump on a mag with out learning to deal with recoil. Some may others need to build up skill and confidence.

[ceadersavage2]

There is a lots of great info here but this grip thing changing will help .Go first with a bigger grip ,then go with the loads ,sights .Then with a good instucker.

[Lloyd Smale]

ps i like my sights BLACK!

[HGunner]

If you are shooting 3 inches with the 629 Classic and 3 feet with the Ruger SBH then shoot the S&W!!  The 6.5" 629 Classic is a great 44 magnum and a great hunting revolver.  If you are shooting 3" offhand at 25 yards then you can go hunting.  I used to use 44 special to warm up before shooting magnum loads but they never were very accurate in my guns.  Now I just load whatever I want in 44 magnum cases.  FWIW you could trade that Ruger in on a decent reloading setup including dies and components (save the brass you are shooting now).  Or, you could trade it toward a S&W 617 22LR to work on your marksmanship.

[zoner]

years ago i took a handgun shootin class thru San Diego Police Dept....all instructors were top notch shooters,but i sure wasn't. Shooting was at 25 yds offhand,slow fire. I was shootin a single six at the time and my target looked like a shotgun pattern. Must be something wrong with the sight alignment. A instructor came down the line and i asked him to help me adjust my sights. He took a glance downrange at my target and said "you don't need to adjust your sights." Look at the front sight. It will be sharp and clear cuz your eyes focus on it. The rear sight and target will be a little blurry. Nobody can hold a handgun dead still offhand so focus on the front sight while pushing the sight back to point of aim as the sights move on you. Squeeze the trigger. When you do these things the gun will actually surprise you a little when it goes off. I worked on this stuff(50 rds slow fire per week). A month later the same instuctor came along, looked downrange, and the thirty rounds i'd fired were in a pattern the size of my fist, a little high and to the right. He said,"now we can adjust your sights,sir, do you understand why we couldn't adjust your sights earlier?"  Invest 500 rds into these techniques,slow fire, and if you get tired quit for the day. Your gun's probably alright. You'll get better. Practice,practice,practice. Good luck and Merry Christmas everybody.......Mike