Author Topic: Got to shoot my 45/70 H&R Handi Rifle with lead bullets and TB (Read 1228 times)

MSP Ret · « **on:** November 13, 2011, 01:21:47 AM »

Hi guys, it's me, MSPRet, the OP that opened the rather lively discussion about shooting my 45/70 using TB and the 405+ grainlead bullets I had on hand. Late yesterday afternoon, after a days yard work and going to the dump I continued on to the the range with a couple of H&R's, a 16 gauge single H&R (full choke) with 5 different kinds of slugs (another story) and a scoped 22" barreled 45-70 Handi of proven accuracy, with just 3 rounds loaded with TB.
A couple of days ago I checked and determined a Lee Loader #167 scoop threw a pretty consistant 12.7 charge of TB so that is what I used. I loaded just 3 rounds and used the prelubed (looks like alox) bullets that weighed out at 414.1 grains. I choose them because I had 3 at that weight.
I set up at the range at 50 yards and preceeded to put the first 2 holes touching each other 2.5 inches high directly above the bulls eye/POA and then called the last a bit right/low, 3/4" away from the first 2 shots. Only 3 shots I know, but encouraging. I will load up another 6 or 10 tonight at the same load and try them at 100 yards.
I would be real interested in the results Dinny and Doublebass73 get when/if they get to try a TB load on a deer this year. I would like to give it a shot next year myself, at 100 yards or less. And thanks gcrank1, if I did live close I'm sure we would burn up a lot of powder shooting our H&R's together....<><....

Ranch13 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2011, 03:48:48 AM »

Did you take any pictures of the target?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2011, 05:06:25 AM »

NO I did not, but it is most likely still in the trash at the range, along with the targets I used for my 16 gauge shotgun with slugs. I don't do pictures very well (not at all) but now that I have gotten home from church I can go to the range (It's only about 3 miles away) and pull it out of the trash barrel. Let me know if you want it and send me your address and I will send it to you....<><....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2011, 05:23:00 AM »

Nice work and shootin Andy, I'd be glad to post the pic for ya if ya email it to me.

Tim

Ranch13 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2011, 07:23:15 AM »

You can pm me your email addy and I'ld be happy to post it for you, or we could walk you thru the process for posting pics.
I think it's always fun to see targets when bullet holes run together.

Spanky · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2011, 07:32:51 AM »

It just so happens that I've got 2 full jugs of Trail Boss and a bunch of 405gr. cast bullets. Even better is that my brand spankin' new 45-70 Handi will arrive at my dealers this Thursday.

Looks like I'll have to give it a whirl too fella's.

Spanky

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2011, 11:09:58 AM »

Andy,

Haven't seen any deer yet but I'll post results if I'm lucky enough to get one this year. Here is how the TB load performed on a red squirrel today:

Spanky · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2011, 11:20:10 AM »

Hehehe... I just did the same thing to a gray squirrel this afternoon with my Maxi.

Spanky

MSP Ret · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2011, 11:23:07 AM »

Thanks guys, I got home from the range about an hour ago, unfortunately the grounds crew must have emptied the trash and yesterdays 50 yard target was gone, however I am sure I can replicate it at 50 yards again if needed. I do have 2 targets shot at 100 yards today, the first shot with 3 rounds out of my proven 22" barreled Handi of TB thrown with a #167 Lee Loader scoop, about 12.5-6 grains of powder behind a lubed lead HP bullet weighing 411.9 grains.
The second grouo was the same bullets at 411.9 grains ahead of 17 grains (wieghed) of TB.
The reason for the bullet wieght is I have wieghed and sorted the cast bullets I have into groups within 1/10 grain and that weight had 6 bullets in it. I wanted just 3 rounds at 12.5 (+/-) and 3 rounds at 17 grains of TB so I chose the weight with 6 bullets, scientific method right? I will e-mail these out tomorrow and take up a generous members offer to post them for me, thanks in advance.

The targets are home made from old and left over art work from the grandchildren, the large center square appx 3.5" square. The 12.5 grain load of TB with the sights set the same as the 50 yard group ended up with a 3.5" group near the center of POA, I sighted in at the top of the paper, 9" high and luckily hit near center.
The second group of 3 rounds of 45-70 loaded with 17 grains of TB opened up to a 6.75 three group with a POA just an inch or 2 above the center aiming point on the target (ignore the 20 gauge slug holes on the second target, I did not plan on posting these and it's lucky I took them home.) I also shot the slugs out of H&R's, 2 Brenneke's out of a20 gauge USH and one Remington slugger from an iron sighted H&R 20 gauge TRacker 1 (smoothbore) w/rifle sights.
Checking the bullets again they appear to be more of a Govt design with the HP on a small flat point on the bullet.
I have also taken pictures of the bullets and tomorrow I will impose on our great friend to post those for me as well.
The 12.5 (appx) load of TB shows promise at 100 yards from my gun and at 50 yards you could surgically remove squirrels from trees with it, however my gun does not seem to like the 17 grain load of TB as much, YMMV....<><....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2011, 11:28:51 AM »

I'll be elk huntin tomorrow, so if someone else wants to post em sooner....

Tim

MSP Ret · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2011, 11:33:17 AM »

All the best tomorrow Tim, enjoy every minute you can get to be in the great outdoors....<><....

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:16:38 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on November 13, 2011, 11:20:10 AM

Hehehe... I just did the same thing to a gray squirrel this afternoon with my Maxi.

Spanky

Nice!

I was in the woods for 5 minutes today on a tote road when I heard a large animal moving through the thick woods. Not sure if it was a deer or moose but I had the wind in my favor so I quietly went into the trees and tried to stalk where the noise was coming from. As soon as I did that there were so many red squirrels chirping at me I was unable to hear anything else so I lost out on getting to see what was making all that noise. Before I left that area for the day I made that one pay for what his brethren did

MSP Ret · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:20:59 PM »

And another one bites the dust....<><....

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2011, 12:39:46 PM »

I too shot my TB loads today.Also shot my hotter loads as well.Did pretty good with both.They hit within a inch of each other and hold a group of about 1 1/2" at a hundred.Also shot the 308 and the maxi.Trying to get ready for the opener right after Thanksgiving.Didn't think about all the shooting until I got home.Blood thinners and heavy hitters don't work well together.My cheek and jaw are even bruised.Shoulder has kind of a green tint to it.Doc is going to be PO'd tomorrow.Had a blast any way.

ratdog · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2011, 02:29:42 PM »

rsp how did you like the recoil on those tb loads aren't they nice i shoot 17 grns of tb in my bc and 22'' barreled 45-70 i can shoot those for hours no bruises.just plane old fun.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2011, 02:46:32 PM »

The recoil is so gentle it's a joy to shoot and I am sure you could shoot just about any TB load all day long without discomfort. How accurately does your 17 grain load of TB shoot at 100 yards ratdog?...<><....

Dinny · « **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2011, 04:49:12 PM »

Andy,
The second Fort Sill deer rifle season starts soon. I hope to get out there with my 45-70 and shoot one with my TB loads. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Thanks, Dinny

BBF · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2011, 05:33:44 AM »

I'm surprised you had any identifiable parts left from the squirrel. I whacked one two years ago with a 240 gr XTP from a 44 Rem Mag. It didn't leave much left.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2011, 06:31:15 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on November 14, 2011, 05:33:44 AM

I'm surprised you had any identifiable parts left from the squirrel. I whacked one two years ago with a 240 gr XTP from a 44 Rem Mag. It didn't leave much left.

I hit him a little bit low so it only took out the bottom chunk of him. It was a 300 grain commercial hardcast. Next time I'll use a 300 grain JHP over a compressed load of Varget and post the results lol.

thejanitor · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2011, 07:30:42 AM »

You are supposed to bark the squirrel not gut the tree....

thejanitor

Dinny · « **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2011, 07:32:53 AM »

I shot one once while deer hunting. I was carrying a 20ga slug gun and the squirrel crawled down the tree I was leaning against. Looking back, it probably wasn't smart to shoot straight up, but I never did find much of that squirrel afterwards. However, I did hear a good thump when the slug landed a few yards away.

Disclaimer: Kids don't try this at home. I'm a highly trained professional, lol.

Thanks, Dinny

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** November 14, 2011, 08:47:33 AM »

Like shooting arrows almost straight up with a head wind blowing !

MSP Ret · « **Reply #22 on:** November 14, 2011, 03:27:30 PM »

LOL, I still remember shooting arrows straight up in the air as a kid, then bending backwards watching them come back down. It's lucky me and my best friend don't have arrows sticking out of our foreheads, on at least one occasion (probably more) they missed by less than a foot!!

Dinny, all the best on the second season at Fort Sill. Please let us know what happens....<><....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2011, 04:54:41 AM »

Thanks Andy, no luck on the elk. $:-\$ Here are the pics of the targets and bullets.

Tim

MSP Ret · « **Reply #24 on:** November 15, 2011, 05:26:58 AM »

Thanks Tim, unfortunate on the Elk but they will be larger next year (or perhaps next week?).
The top two targets are the same one, the first is as from the range and the second depiction is after I made notes on it at home (arrow indicating top, etc), that was a 3.5" grouping at 100 yards with 12.5-12.6 grains of TB. The third target down is the 100 yard target of the same bullet loaded with 17.0 grains of TB showing a 6.75" spread.
I know 3 rounds don't show to much but they are better than nothing. I do think I might be able to tighten them up just a bit with a little more effort.
The bottom picture is of the bullets as I got from a member here long ago. I could not get them to shoot with smokeless powder but decided t try them with TB after reading posts here on GB. I do think the 12.5 grain load would be a good deer getter at short distance with proper placement, although others may disagree, and yes, there are better options available, but I think it would work if used correctly. And it does show promise as a fun 100 yard varmint (coyote) load as well....<><...