Calibers for Elk

[kmittleman]

Hey Fellas,
 
My father and I are thinking about Elk hunting (hopefully) next year in Colorado. I have a .308 but am thinking I'd like a little extra "insurance" in case I get a difficult shot. In my trying to avoid a super hard kicking magnum, I've narrowed it down to .30-06 and 7mm mag. Any thoughts on either of these two for Elk?
 
-Kevin

[cwlongshot]

IMHO,
 Choosing to buy a 30-06 when you have a 308 is not worth the $$ or the effort.  The 308 will do 99% of what the '06 will and you already have the 308!
 
The 7MM will get you a flatter trajectory, and a little better elk caliber. But to my mind "elk" calibers start with the 338 WM. I have read many times that the defunct 8MM Rem Mag is the elk caliber all others are measured against. To my mind if I where buying a "elk" gun and had a 308, and felt I needed more gun. I would be looking at making the jump to bigger magnum caliber. A 375 H&H is a grand old caliber. it is NOT too much for elk. Much could be said for the Weatherby magnums in 300+ as well.
It may sound like I am pushing the magnums. I am only suggesting them because you need to go a good poke to make it worth while when regarding the performance available form your 308.
 
BUT there is elf hunting in the open spaces and there is elk hunting in the timber. Where will you be hunting them? If you limit your shots and choose a good bullet and practice with it, that 308 you already own will serve you just fine.
 
CW

[kmittleman]

Cool - thanks for the advice. One other reason for the new rifle is that the. 308 weighs about 9lbs. It's a Rem 700 varmint and has a heavy barrel ; I imagine that will be annoying to carry through the mountains. Supposedly we'll be in the woods and most shots will be inside of 200 yds. The magnums are an option, but if they kick too much, I'll hate it and not want to practice. I do handload though. Can a .300 Win Mag be made "tolerable"?
 
-kevin

[Ranch13]

Contrary to popular internet belief, elk are not bullet proof, magnums really aren't needed, and if you have a good 308 then stick with it.This is my wife with just one of several bulls she's turned into winters meat with her 308 loaded with 165 gr hornady bt interlocs

 You'll be better off with a familiar old rifle that you've used for countless number of shots, than you will be with a brand new flinchmaster that you aren't familiar with.
Of course a person should never rule out an excuse to buy a new rifle.
List of cartridges that work well and are very shooter friendly 260 rem, 7mm08.270, 308,3006, 7mm rem mag.

[Graybeard]

Jack O'Conner killed most of his and that was a lot with a .270 Winchester and Nosler PTs. His wife killed most of hers with the 7x57.

I've never shot an elk, never even hunted them for that matter as they are a long way from my stomping grounds. I'd sure not buy a magnum just to hunt them if I were heading that way. I'd likely take my .30-06 or .280 and wouldn't feel under gunned with either.

If you are used to the .308 and like it there is no reason to change but I do agree a lighter rifle would be handy. Just get another like it but a standard sporter weight in either.308 or .30-06. Since you aren't used to the recoil of a magnum you'd prolly do yourself a favor by not getting one.

[Silvertp]

Kevin...you've gotten some great advice. 

Here's my 2 cents worth based on shooting some good bulls with .308 Win., .270, 7mm mag, and muzzle loader.  My best bull was take at 20 yards with a bow and arrow.  Its more about the "hunter" than the weapon.  As others have stated, there are lots of adequate elk rifles.

For pure elk hunting I agree with CWLongshot...the .338's are very hard to beat, but for me they border on the "hard kicking".  Especially the larger .338's like the Weatherby's and Lapua.  If you want an elk killing machine and can accept the recoil, look at the .338's.

That said, the 7mm Rem mag is an elk killer extraordinaire. Recoil is easy to handle and can be had in a light sporter rifle.  Using 160 grain bullets Ive take bulls from  6 feet to 600 yards with the 7.  It will flat get the job done, no excuses.  It would make an excellent addition to your hunting rifle collection.

Silvertp

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   JOC killed about 21 elk with his .270...most were under guided conditions and a magazine footing the bill...it is easy to  be  selective under those conditions...also shooting an elk on a ranch is far different than hunting elk on public land...I just saw some information on the Shoshoni Wilderness Adventures newsletter that would help with this question...It would pay a guy to take a look at it...shots at elk often come late in the evening in rough country...use the biggest gun you can shoot well with premium bullets...an elk that runs down into a deep canyon or into a downfall can be a horror to get out...it is easy for guys to offer advice while sitting in a warm room far from elk country...but after 10 days hunting when the shot comes, most will take it and hope for the best that is where a good heavy rifle comes into its own...it will also killed the elk that presents a cinch shot just as well...you must consider under what conditions will you hunt...on public land in the mts. things are rough...on a ranch hunt, you can probably drive to the elk you kill if you drop it before it gets into rough coutry or thick brush...

[Ranch13]

With 50 years of elk hunting and 50 elk kills, only 6 of those have been here on the ranch. I can tell you that the elk coming out of the hayfields are a bit tougher to put down on the spot as they carry about 1/4 more muscle and body fat, and are in alot better condition than elk that have been foraging grass,rocks twigs and quakie leaves all of their life. When you're elk hunting it doesn't matter where you are private or public land, guided or not if you want to fill your tag you take the shot that's presented.
 The part about taking as much gun as you can handle is always good, but there is nobody anywhere at any place that can honestly say a 308 winchester is not a good elk cartridge.
 

[sidewinder319]

I have been  lucky to have lived in good elk hunting areas most of my days. I have shot them with many calibers from 30-30 to 45-110.  My choice by far is the old battered up .338 WM.  One of the best elk guides and gun men I ever knew was Dale Storey of Casper Wy. Dale knew his guns and hunting he chose the .338 with a 250 gr. bullet.  That also has worked for me.

[Ranch13]

 Yup the 338 has a small but vocal following, it is also a great crippler of elk when the yanker of the trigger doesn't have a good handle on operating the thing.
 

[sidewinder319]

Yes only a few people use the .338 and they jerk the triggers. It seems to me I have seen shooters jerk triggers on .22 shorts.  There is no proof that using a very accurate rifle such as a .338 or .300 wounds any more game than the smaller bores. I agree there are many hunters using the .308 etc who are recoil shy and they should try to use these smaller calibers. If you are one of those hunters who is recoil shy you are correct in staying with a smaller bore.  You may also consider one of the new ballistic recoil shields. Many shoulder sensitive shooters like these and it allows them to move up to the larger bores.

[Ranch13]

   Have spent more time than I care to following blood trails of elk from folks that followed the nonsense about how they needed a magnum when they come out here after elk.  I've shot 270's that have a worse bite than a Remington 700 in 338 ultra mag I had a brief fling with...
 Just have a hard time figuring out why if a person doesn't think a non magnum 30 isn't enough elk gun (inspite of a great 100 year track record) then why piddle around with a mid 30 cartridge, lets jump up and get into some serious horsepower like a 375 H&H... Oh did I tell you about the cow elk we shot with the 375? Hit her at 200 yds quartering away, bullet went clean thru her. As so often happens the rest of the bunch huddled around her to see what was going on , couldn't get a second shot in. Finally after going another 200 yds she collapsed... Not one drop of blood on either the entry or exit. Had she not stayed in the clearing thru the hole affair it's quite possible she would of been lost due to the lack of a blood trail to follow.
 405 winchester is one of my favorite rifles and cartridges, but it sometimes fails to put a spectacular smakdown on elk even when the first shot takes out the heart.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

I have not followed many wounded elk either by my self or those of others...but I do know, the most experienced elk hunters I know usually stick with the core elk calibers from 7mm-338...To be honest in this area I don't know a soul who uses the .308....I know folks who did use it and the .300 Sav. and while a few may still use them, they are not common...If you can use the added range and power of the bigger calibers they are great, but as sidewinder said, if you cannot handle them,then a smaller round is needed and one must follow the limitations of the caliber...Bob Hagel wisely pointed out to those coming to elk country, the locals often use calibers that are not the best elk rounds...they use them because that is what they have..the locals also have the advantage of knowing the country, and added time to make a hunt when it is just right....HE WAS A LOCAL, and prefered the 7mm;s or 338 for sure kills..but he was also a very experienced shooter...I have shot elk on both public and private ground, and those on private ground give the advantage of not being pushed off by other hunters, otherwise, I haven't seen them being any more difficult to kill than mt. elk..I haven't quite made 50 elk, but I am darn close...

[Ranch13]

Never really have figured out this "locals have more time to hunt" stuff. The season opening and closing dates are the same, doesn't matter whether you are a resident or nonresident. That arquement just doesn't make any sense when it comes to elk calibers. That arquement particularly lacks any credibility when it comes to hunting Colorado such as the OP is talking about They get 3-5 days to hunt down there, maybe if they get into the right season they may get a full week.... But even here 2 weeks is about the extent of it unless you've got a cow permit somewhere.
 I'm third generation here in Wyoming. The hunter success rate has always hung around 40% somewhere and that includes the cow shoot at Jackson. 60% of the hunters go home every year with a valid license in their pocket.
 It makes little sense for someone who is going to have over 1000 dollars invested just to get to camp to have to run down and buy some sort of flinchmaster chambered rifle to add to the expenses, when chances are if he/she has been hunting deer at home with a rifle for years that is fully capable of killing elk stone cold dead at any reasonable range they are liable to be encountered.
 
 

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

Usually nonres. come in for 5-7 days for a hunt...they take what they get for weather conditions...while the locals can hit it when the weather is right..not hard to figure..plus the local or resident hunters can go elk hunting in wy. anytime from late Sept. til late Nov.  easy to see the advantage of living in elk coun try...if you are happy with a .308 fine..some of us enjoy using different rifles just for the pleasure of fine firearms...It always seems to rattle guys who like a .308 or some such when mag.s are mentioned...why I don'tknow.., but I have spent a life time hunting, shooting, reloading. I can tell you this the most knowledgeable deadly riflemen I have known, and I have known plenty usually shooting the biggest rifle they can handle if they are hunting for a serious trophy...Also when we talk of public land, you and I both know there are thousands of acres of "public land" behind locked gates that is not accessable to the average guy...while it is public land it is still limited to access by the ranches owning the land around it...

[Ranch13]

Wyo Coyote hunter what part of the state do you live in and how long have you been here?
 Yeh you can start hunting on a general license in Sept, but it won't be the same area if you're such a crappy hunter you're still out there in Nov or Dec.
But that still doesn't change the fact that other than a few that live at the base of the mtn there's anybody that hunts much other than the week or so they take vacation time.
 It still doesn't negate the balance of the seasons here opening on or about Oct 15 and closing the 31.
 
And it has less to do with the Op's plans of going to Colorado, those seasons down there are mostly 5 days long period, end of story you buy a "season" license and that's all you got to hunt for the year.
 Most of the so called "locked" public land isn't locked because of the local ranchers, most of the locked land is from out of state owners and interests. Some land is locked because of stupid people period.
 I had 3 calves shot in one week on a piece of state land I lease. If I could close that thing off I damn sure would.
Locked gates happen for a reason.
 You can justify a magnum till the cows come home, but all the rationalization in the world won't erase the successful track record of the non magnum cartridges. They work and work well.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

You are right...I usually only hunt elk in the Platte Valley...So the season is short...but I can go out on the days that are perfect because I live here...simple..as for nonmag.s working sure they do..they work well..but if you can use them, the mags offer more range and knock down power it is as simple as that...I have hunted elk  for 40 years some on public some on private..I know the elk hunting in the mostly private ground in eastern wy. does not compare with the rough and tumble hunts on national forests...Use what you like, I am experienced enough to know the mags. offer a great advantage to those who can use them..more than once I have filled my tag because my pal's 300 Sav. or 30-06 did not have the range to make a long shot...several times they have knocked down game that was crippled by one of the non mag calibers because they misjudged the range...anyway you cut it, magnums offer advantages to those who can use them...I am darn sure if I were making a hunt to Colo. with only 5 days to fill out, I would take the flatest shooting hardest hitting rifle I could shoot well...if it were a .308 then I would be stuck with that, but fortunately for me, I have other choices...You can argue till the cows come home too, but I have fooled with about all the calibers from .22 to .375 H & H and .45-70...unlike many I didn't just buy a rifle and use it without trying others...Mags. work well for me, they offer advantages that are not always needed but comforting to have in a pinch...if you can't shoot them, no problem you have to live with what you can shoot...no point in farther discussion...

[Ranch13]

Platte Valley is a alot of country, most of my elk were taken on the Upper Green River, the rest in the Sierra Madre's and a couple out of the Gros Ventre country.
 The list of cartridges I've personally used on elk is long, the list of cartridges I've saw used as a casual observer and a proffesional paid hunter herder is long.
 The magnums work , so do the nonmagnums, a misplaced shot is just that , no matter what the belt on the cartridge indicates.
 Most folks have a much greater percentage of placing that first round where it'll do the most good from a cartridge that doesn't cause a flinch.
 
 

[BBF]

Staying within your criteria of 200 yards or a bit more my choice would be a 35 Whelen.

[sidewinder319]

Well Damn if I know what the number of years some has one has lived in Wyoming has to do with Elk hunting.  I hold the whole hand of Wyoming Pioneer Licences.  I have hunted all over the state at one time or another. Some of the worst hunters I have  seen were my fellow Wyomingites.  Some of the best have been from back east.  I have known many small ranchers who shoot "Hay Stack" elk every year and call themselves elk hunters. Elk Hunter B.S. elk shooter from a pick up in view of the house.  Anyone who has ever hunted elk on public lands will Damn sure work harder and know elk better than private land shooters.. All that being said I am getting older and I now Shoot "Hay Stack" elk on a land owners permit.  And I still use a .338. 

[sidewinder319]

Check this link out. The guides have sensible advise for nonresident hunters. These people are very familiar with elk hunting and what you will need for a successful hunt good look.
 
http://www.eliteoutfitters.com/rifle_equipment.htm

[45-70.gov]

Cool - thanks for the advice. One other reason for the new rifle is that the. 308 weighs about 9lbs. It's a Rem 700 varmint and has a heavy barrel ; I imagine that will be annoying to carry through the mountains. Supposedly we'll be in the woods and most shots will be inside of 200 yds. The magnums are an option, but if they kick too much, I'll hate it and not want to practice. I do handload though. Can a .300 Win Mag be made "tolerable"?
 
-kevin

so  your 308  weighs  9 pounds


say  you want a 6 pound rifle with  more power??
that will really  kick.....not  much  can be done about it


you  going to shoot something
don't try to shed  yourself  of  3 pounds of rifle
just  find 3 pounds  of something  else  not  to carry


if you  just  need an excuse  to get a new rifle....please disreguard  this post
except  for  TV...i have never  seen an   elk


i  have  a 308  and a 375 ruger.......almost  identical
i  am  so much  more comfortable shooting the  308  of the  2 guns
that  is what  i would  use.....
unless  i  can get a good price  on 375 ammo  and practice  some  more

[Ranch13]

Sidewinder I suppose then you remember when the bear tag came on the elk and the deer license?
 How is it that you come by a landowner license?
You surely remember and may have known Les Bowman and Bob Milek,, and what they both had to say about elk rifles.
 Not sure I understand your pithy attitude towards folks that don't shoot a 338 for elk, it comes off just a tad bit uppity, and if you've been around as long as you claim you know darn good and well that the nonbelted cartridges outnumbered the belted ones in elk country.
 You also know full well that the non belted cartridges kill elk very dead, by the hundreds every year.
 

[Ranch13]

Check this link out. The guides have sensible advise for nonresident hunters. These people are very familiar with elk hunting and what you will need for a successful hunt good look.
 
http://www.eliteoutfitters.com/rifle_equipment.htm

 Who ever wrote that drivel is a knucklehead.I don't know but, I'ld about bet anybody booking a hunt with that clown is probably going to regret every minute of the entire ordeal

[sidewinder319]

Yes I  knew Bob Milek very well we were good friends. Bob and I worked to push the Handgun hunting law thru in 1978 with the help of Ruger, S&W, and Dave Larue of Freedom Arms and Dick Sadler.  We won by one vote. I wonder if you were there helping us??  I could care less what you shoot elk with or what you think of me, not important. The fact that you see so many wounded elk makes me wonder about where you hunt.  I hunt on land that is divided by the Utah and Wyoming border. Utah allows a certain number of cow tags each year to land owners. Yes I recall when we could apply for a Grizzly bear tags and we were given black bear tags etc.  I don't know why you attack people so much who disagree with you. You do this on many forums, You are giving Wyoming folks a bad name.  Please just light'in up.  We are here to have fun not to get ulcers

[Graybeard]

Both of you get back on topic and stop addressing each other.

[Silvertp]

Thanks Bill. 

Thank God we live in America and have the right to our opinions and choices of firearms to hunt with.  Hopefully we can help the OP make a decision based on our experiences without wading through quite as much squirting.

Silvertp

[alsatian]

I think there is some good advice here.  If you've got a .308, that is adequate for your elk hunting.  If you want a pretext to buy a new rifle, by all means, buy a new rifle.  If you are buying a new rifle, a .30-06 is not much different from your .308, why not get something distinctly different?  While I hunt elk on public land successfully with a .30-06, I have a hankering to own a .338 Winchester Magnum.  For my hunting -- modest sized bull elk (4x3 in 2009 and a 5x5 this October) and modest ranges (60 yards in 2009, maybe 200 yards or even less this October) -- the .30-06 works well.  I know a lot of people in the area I hunt who likewise use the .30-06 with success.  My elk hunting partner has used the .30-06 successfully for 20+ years.  I've read ample support in books for the adequacy of the .30-06.  Notwithstanding . . . I would like to own a .338 Winchester Magnum.  Can I rationalize this desire?  Not really.  Partly I would like to have this rifle as an additional rifle to hand on to my son when I die.  Who knows, maybe he would like to go big bear hunting some day?  I do not desire to hunt these bears, but he might.  While I think the .30-06 is adequate, I can imagine circumstances where I would be thankful to have the additional umph of a .338 Winchester Magnum.  What if the shot is 350 yards, and it is late in the day.  Will a .30-06 anchor the elk that is quartering away so I don't have to try to track it in the dark?  There are a lot of ifs in that scenario.  Generally I don't like to shoot that far, but maybe in this scenario I'm able to assume a prone position with a nice stable rest on my backpack?  Yes, I know shooting such a powerful rifle in prone may have significant pain drawbacks, but if this is the shot I've got, I'm liable to take it if I think I can make the shot.  Also, again, crafting the scenario in the imagination, if I have time to assume the prone position and set things up to my likeing, why can't I add some extra padding between the butt of the rifle stock and my shoulder, since I'm imagining a scenario here?
 
Anyway, it is up to you.  The .308 will do the job.  If you WANT to buy a new rifle, by all means do buy yourself another rifle.  The rifle manufacturers need new gun purchases to stay in business.  Get a rifle that is chambered in something distinctly different from the .308 is the main advice I would give you if you just need to have another rifle.

[mechanic]

Whenever I read one of these topics, I wonder how our ancestors didn't starve using those old cap and ball front stuffers on elk, griz, and everything else.
 
Knowing your weapon and your own capabilities is most important.  Most centerfires from 6mm up have adequate ability within their range and with the right bullet for the job at hand.
 
Just my humble opinion....but if a 308 won't kill it at reasonable range and a good bullet, it must have on armor.
 
Ben

[yellowtail3]

Get a 30-30 Marlin - it'll carry easier, be prettier, and the elk will taste better!