I & A casualties: Worth it?

[Conan The Librarian]

As of May, 2011....
 
We have surpassed 6,000 U.S. troops killed while serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.

6,002 American soldiers have died.
43,270 American soldiers have been officially wounded.
An additional 55,007 have required medical evacuation out of the combat zones Operations Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, and New Dawn.

On the day that President Obama helped kick off the Wounded Warrior bicycle tour, a conservative total of 104,279 American troops are considered casualties of these long wars. This does not included the walking wounded, those suffering from traumatic brain injury, attempted or successful suicides, or civilian contractors.
No less than 75 percent of all casualties in Afghanistan have occurred during the Obama administration's tenure, including 933 of the 1,560 fatalities and 8,561 of the 11,191 wounded

[NWBear]

This reminds me of "people" who were dissatisfied with an outcome of a trial, so they BURNED THERE OWN NEIGHBORHOOD DOWN.
We are now responsible for more Americans KILLED than the terrorists of 9/11 - not counting the wounded as you described.
Fortunately we have shipped all the good paying MANUFACTURING jobs to Mexico or China so when they return....

[crustylicious]

Afghanistan with the taliban and Osama Bin Laden- yes
Iraq with unfounded allegations of WMDs, nuclear weapons, and bad intentions- no

[Doublebass73]

They were both crapholes before we went in and will be crapholes after we leave so no IMHO.

[Dee]

As of May, 2011....
 
We have surpassed 6,000 U.S. troops killed while serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.

6,002 American soldiers have died.
43,270 American soldiers have been officially wounded.
An additional 55,007 have required medical evacuation out of the combat zones Operations Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, and New Dawn.

On the day that President Obama helped kick off the Wounded Warrior bicycle tour, a conservative total of 104,279 American troops are considered casualties of these long wars. This does not included the walking wounded, those suffering from traumatic brain injury, attempted or successful suicides, or civilian contractors.
No less than 75 percent of all casualties in Afghanistan have occurred during the Obama administration's tenure, including 933 of the 1,560 fatalities and 8,561 of the 11,191 wounded

We should have, after 911, bombed Afghanistan's training facilities into powder, and sicked drones on anything left moving, and warned, that we would do it again, if we have anymore trouble out of them. And should never have sent troops in.
As far as Iraq is concerned. Hussein was a butcher, killing butchers. He knew how to handle those heathens, and we should have left him alone. SO! No it was not worth the loss of life. If a politician wants a war, he should have to get a rifle and lead the charge.jmo

[bigMikeA]

As of May, 2011....
 
We have surpassed 6,000 U.S. troops killed while serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.

6,002 American soldiers have died.
43,270 American soldiers have been officially wounded.
An additional 55,007 have required medical evacuation out of the combat zones Operations Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, and New Dawn.

On the day that President Obama helped kick off the Wounded Warrior bicycle tour, a conservative total of 104,279 American troops are considered casualties of these long wars. This does not included the walking wounded, those suffering from traumatic brain injury, attempted or successful suicides, or civilian contractors.
No less than 75 percent of all casualties in Afghanistan have occurred during the Obama administration's tenure, including 933 of the 1,560 fatalities and 8,561 of the 11,191 wounded

We should have, after 911, bombed Afghanistan's training facilities into powder, and sicked drones on anything left moving, and warned, that we would do it again, if we have anymore trouble out of them. And should never have sent troops in.
As far as Iraq is concerned. Hussein was a butcher, killing butchers. He knew how to handle those heathens, and we should have left him alone. SO! No it was not worth the loss of life. If a politician wants a war, he should have to get a rifle and lead the charge.jmo

So right on...   absolutely!

[mdwest]

Cruise missile strikes against training camps were tried several times prior to the invasion.. They were among Clintons favorite responses to terrorist attacks.. They didn't work...

Armed drones didn't exist in 2001 and were not an option.. They were developed later as a result of the successes found with the unarmed drones that were used (and are still used) during the early phase of the war..

[billy_56081]

To tell you the truth, if I were president I would not endanger any of our citacens. I'd lay the whole region to waste with our nuclear arsenal. one billion muslins to one American life is a price to high to pay. That said we need to eradicate this cancer called Islam from the earth.

[BUGEYE]

To tell you the truth, if I were president I would not endanger any of our citacens. I'd lay the whole region to waste with our nuclear arsenal. one billion muslins to one American life is a price to high to pay. That said we need to eradicate this cancer called Islam from the earth.

I agree with that last sentence.....
I would partner the CIA with Mossad to eliminate enemies.

[oldandslow]

Hindsight is always 20/20. 

[Dee]

As of May, 2011....
 
We have surpassed 6,000 U.S. troops killed while serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.

6,002 American soldiers have died.
43,270 American soldiers have been officially wounded.
An additional 55,007 have required medical evacuation out of the combat zones Operations Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, and New Dawn.

On the day that President Obama helped kick off the Wounded Warrior bicycle tour, a conservative total of 104,279 American troops are considered casualties of these long wars. This does not included the walking wounded, those suffering from traumatic brain injury, attempted or successful suicides, or civilian contractors.
No less than 75 percent of all casualties in Afghanistan have occurred during the Obama administration's tenure, including 933 of the 1,560 fatalities and 8,561 of the 11,191 wounded

We should have, after 911, bombed Afghanistan's training facilities into powder, and sicked drones on anything left moving, and warned, that we would do it again, if we have anymore trouble out of them. And should never have sent troops in.
As far as Iraq is concerned. Hussein was a butcher, killing butchers. He knew how to handle those heathens, and we should have left him alone. SO! No it was not worth the loss of life. If a politician wants a war, he should have to get a rifle and lead the charge.jmo

 
911 was a hoax.....maybe at least you're getting the idea the 'aftermath' was.....
 
If a politician wants a war, he should have to get a rifle and lead the charge.jmo

ditto, and hope they don't trip walking up the airplane gangplank....
 
 
..TM7
.

Actually TM7, I have always been against the war in Iraq, and I always thought it was a lie. Actually TM7, I have always been against occupying Afghanistan. Actually TM7, I was always for bombing Afghanistan into powder.
As for 911 being a hoax? I watched the planes crash into the buildings, and I watched them fall from the top down.

[Gary G]

Well, it was worth it for some of our elite and corporatist masters, but definitely not worth it for "we the people".

[dukkillr]

Dee,,,I know you've been against those things....me too. I also know you watched planes crash into buildings and subsequent freefall collapses, except #7 wasn't hit by a plane. I know the attack was attributed to moslems from SA.  I know all that stuff was on telaversion...I got that.....BUT like in a police investigation it doesn't mean what we are told is what actually happened, or if it  is all that happened.  As for pounding Afghani training camps to dust...what do you do in the next hour...? Also, as in a police investigation if somebody is caught in a lie--what else are they lieing about?
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the 'hoax' element of 911, but agree on some of the aftermath BS.
 
Certainly ditto what GaryG said...and maybe the whole story...
 
..TM7

All 9/11 conspiracy theories belong in the TFH section.

[SHOOTALL]

 
We should have, after 911, bombed Afghanistan's training facilities into powder, and sicked drones on anything left moving, and warned, that we would do it again, if we have anymore trouble out of them. And should never have sent troops in.
As far as Iraq is concerned. Hussein was a butcher, killing butchers. He knew how to handle those heathens, and we should have left him alone. SO! No it was not worth the loss of life. If a politician wants a war, he should have to get a rifle and lead the charge.jmo

 
I couldn't agree more. Our troops are made up of some of the best America and the world has to offer . The concept of wasting them should be illegal. We send them in harms way for political reasons while the lazy sit home and collect wealfare.
 A nuke in tora bora the day after 911 would have been a proper responce IMHO ! And screw what the rest of the liberal / commie world thinks !

[powderman]

A nuke in tora bora the day after 911 would have been a proper responce IMHO ! And screw what the rest of the liberal / commie world thinks !
 
 
SHOOTALL. YEP, mecca would have been better. 

[SHOOTALL]

People respect snakes because they know it only takes one mistake to get bit. We should be like the snake and quick to bite back.

[lakota]

 
We should have, after 911, bombed Afghanistan's training facilities into powder, and sicked drones on anything left moving, and warned, that we would do it again, if we have anymore trouble out of them. And should never have sent troops in.
As far as Iraq is concerned. Hussein was a butcher, killing butchers. He knew how to handle those heathens, and we should have left him alone. SO! No it was not worth the loss of life. If a politician wants a war, he should have to get a rifle and lead the charge.jmo

 
I couldn't agree more. Our troops are made up of some of the best America and the world has to offer . The concept of wasting them should be illegal. We send them in harms way for political reasons while the lazy sit home and collect wealfare.
 A nuke in tora bora the day after 911 would have been a proper responce IMHO ! And screw what the rest of the liberal / commie world thinks !

Me three. Good people are dying to bring freedom liberty and "democracy" to people who have interest in none of these things. They should have bombed the crap out of these arm pit countries until they decided that it might be a good idea to cough up the terrorists. 

[yellowtail3]

To tell you the truth, if I were president I would not endanger any of our citacens. I'd lay the whole region to waste with our nuclear arsenal. one billion muslins to one American life is a price to high to pay. That said we need to eradicate this cancer called Islam from the earth.

I agree with that last sentence..... I would partner the CIA with Mossad to eliminate enemies.

What qualifies one as an enemy - being a Muslim? How many dead will be enough?
 
And some of these people call themselves Christians... wow...

[SHOOTALL]

Cruise missile strikes against training camps were tried several times prior to the invasion.. They were among Clintons favorite responses to terrorist attacks.. They didn't work...

Armed drones didn't exist in 2001 and were not an option.. They were developed later as a result of the successes found with the unarmed drones that were used (and are still used) during the early phase of the war..

They work if you pick the correct target 

[mdwest]

Im all for delivering hard strikes against enemies of the US..
 
I understand and accept the concept of collateral damage.. in war, some innocents are going to get killed, injured, loose assets, etc..
 
I am admittedly hawkish by nature (in my politics, my work life, and my personal life)..
 
Personally I dont think we have taken nearly as aggressive action as we should have in Afghanistan (or Iraq)..
 
 
That said, categorizing all mulsims as enemies is wrong.. to kill "them all" simply because of someones religious beliefs is genocide.. and is morally, ethically, wrong.. (not to mention illegal, and is something the US has militarily pursued others for engaging in.. for us to participate in genocide would make us hypocrites on top of everything else)..
 
If someone/some group/some nation/etc.. are enemies of the US.. then Im all for eliminating them from the face of the earth.. I have in the past, and would gladly in the future, take up arms, risk my own life, and participate in in this act.. if US soliders die in the process.. so be it.. we have an all volunteer force where every member raised his right hand, swore an oath to protect our nation, and ASKED to be allowed to participate... if enemy combantants die in the process by the hundreds of thousands... GREAT.. wont be loosing any sleep over that one.. if some innocents are affected.. that is a tragedy.. but it is also a reality of war.. Im not going to loose any sleep over that one either.. as long as they arent intentionally targeted..
 
but the minute we start intentionally targeting people that have done nothing to us, for no other reason than their religious beliefs, their cultural beliefs, their nationality, etc.. we have crossed the line..
 
have we already forgotten one of the primary reasons the first settlers came to America from Europe to begin with? 
 
it was to escape unwarranted religious oppression and prosecution..
 
So now we think its ok to oppress and prosecute others for nothing other than their religious beliefs... even if we know they have done nothing to us?
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

To tell you the truth, if I were president I would not endanger any of our citacens. I'd lay the whole region to waste with our nuclear arsenal. one billion muslins to one American life is a price to high to pay. That said we need to eradicate this cancer called Islam from the earth.

I agree with that last sentence..... I would partner the CIA with Mossad to eliminate enemies.

What qualifies one as an enemy - being a Muslim? How many dead will be enough?
 
And some of these people call themselves Christians... wow...

Through out history both Christians and Muslims have tried to rid the earth of each other. It will end when one side or the other is successful. So all would seem the correct ansewer. As for trying to play the christian card to draw emotion won't work.

[mdwest]

They work if you pick the correct target 

they dont work if you pick the correct taget.. but choose not to send them until a couple of days after the target has left the area..
 
or use the wrong warhead, that lacks the ability to penetrate the target...
 
 
 
more importantly.. they still dont work.. even when you hit what you were aiming at and kill everyone there.. but fail to recognize that killing 10 people that are involved in a 10,000 person movement is irrelevant and inconsequential..
 
 
 
when your enemy blows up two of your embassies in foreign countries.. and kills hundreds of people.. a cruise missle strike against a handful of people isnt an effective response.. the message they sent (strong) is being met by a much weaker message in return...
 
when your enemy sets off a car bomb in the basement of the WTC, attempting to kill tens of thousands of people.. a cruise missle strike is again, an ineffective response.. the message they sent (strong) was met with a much weaker message in return...
 
when your enemy blows a hole in your warship while in international waters and kills several of your sailors.. a cruise missle strike is again, and ineffective response..
 
and the list goes on and on..
 
how many acts of war did we need to let them take, and how many declarations of war did we need to let them give, before we were actually willing to do something substantial about it?
 
We should have laid a smack down on them long before 9/11..

[SHOOTALL]

if that CM is tipped with a nuke it would work. And I agree the CM should hit the people paying for the attacks on us .

[powderman]

If someone/some group/some nation/etc.. are enemies of the US.. then Im all for eliminating them from the face of the earth..

 
MDWEST. How much more damage has to be done before you can see that islam is a vile cancer that has infected the entire world?? Their goal is the destruction of every man, woman, and child that will not bow down to satan himself. Look at my sig line and click on the youtube vid. It's my wifes neice teaching her 5 yr old son to hate Israel. This cancer is wide spread and spreading daily. POWDERMAN. 

[mdwest]

I dont know if a nuke is the answer.. there are a lot of other global issues that arrise once the nuke card is played.. many of which have little or nothing to do with muslims/Al Queda/etc..
 
but I would agree that we should have then, and should be now, taken a much stronger stance than we have..
 
wars of attrition never work well for the larger army.. it takes too long and is too painful for the bigger/more powerful nation..
 
while politically incorrect these days.. total annaliation warfare is in my opinion the better tool.. send a clear message.. we WILL NOT be screwed with.. if you choose to screw with us.. we will completely destroy you.. we will not rebuild you.. and you and your offspring will suffer for generations..
 
Sherman might have been hated..
 
but there is no question as to whether his tactic of burning the south to the ground was effective..
 

[mdwest]

MDWEST. How much more damage has to be done before you can see that islam is a vile cancer that has infected the entire world?? Their goal is the destruction of every man, woman, and child that will not bow down to satan himself. Look at my sig line and click on the youtube vid. It's my wifes neice teaching her 5 yr old son to hate Israel. This cancer is wide spread and spreading daily. POWDERMAN. 

I guess my perspective is different than those of a lot of people here (people on both sides of the Israel/Muslim debate)..
 
As someone that has been personally involved in the GWOT, who has spent the better part of the last 10 years trapsing all over the middle east, north africa, and south west asia.. that personally knows and is friends with dozens of Israeli nationals.. that was a direct report to a major US political figure who is both a neocon and of jewish faith, and who has also interacted with, worked and fought side by side with hundreds of muslims.... I simply cant agree with the view either you, or the guys on the other side of the fence hold.. I think you are both wrong..
 
Are there bad Muslims out there? Absolutely..
 
Are the only bad muslims the ones toting AK47's in the hills of Afghanistan? Nope.. Absolutely not.. there are bad muslims all over the globe..
 
Is the only definition of a bad muslim someone that is personally willing to commit violent acts against others to get their way? Nope.. plenty of other ways to be a bad mulsim.. financing terrorism, preaching hatred and indiscrimnate violence against others, etc.. makes you just as bad as the dude strapping on a suicide vest with the intention of attacking a non military target..
 
Should we take active steps to rid the world of all the "bad" muslims? Absolutely.. I dont have a problem with this at all.. the collective "we" should take active steps to rid the world of all "bad" people period.. I have as much tolorance for a terrorist (of any faith) as I do for a child molestor or a serial rapist.. they should all be erradicated..
 
 
All that said.. here is my personal experience..
 
99 out of 100 "Muslims" living around the globe couldnt care less about attacking the US.. most of them are no different than Jews, Christians, Budists, Hindus, or Atheists in their basic desires for food, shelter, children, family, jobs, and material items.. to the vast majority of them, America is nothing more than a place they have heard about.. they might know a little more about New York City than you know about Alexandira, Egypt.. but thats because the little bit of exposure they get to international news and information if going to have more focus on the US, the UK, Germany, Japan, etc.. than what you get every day is going to include information about whats happening in the Nile delta or in the countryside of Eithiopia..
 
They are plumbers, carpenters, brick layers, farmers, dentists, cab drivers, and retail store clerks.. with families, car notes, house notes, etc.. with vacations to take, hunting trips to participate in, resturants to visit, etc.. no different than everyone else in the world.. in those regards..
 
Do you really believe that the average every day US Citizen (whether Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Gnostic, or worshiper of the International House of Pancakes) wakes up in the morning and worries about how they are going to eliminate all the muslims from the earth?

They dont have time for that..
 
they are busy trying to figure out how they are going to pay the house note this week.. worried about the parent-teacher meeting they have scheduled next week to discuss their kids poor performance in school.. day dreaming about the carribean vacation they want to take but never will, etc..etc.. they are self absorbed and overwhelmed with the day in and day out things that the world expects them to deal with..
 
Do you really believe that the average guy of Muslim faith living in Jakarta is any different? You think he wakes up in the morning and says "I dont care about the house note.. I dont care about my kids performance in school.. I dont care about vacations.. what I really need to think about today is how Im gonna kill me some Christians!"?
 
The vast majority could care less about you, me, or any other Christian, anywhere else in the world..
 
Again.. I FREELY ADMIT that there are A BUNCH of bad ones out there.. that do wake up in the morning and focus on doing us harm every day of their lives.. I FREELY ADMIT that the number of bad ones out there probably out number the number of bad Christians, Jews, Mormons, Gnostics, Hindus, etc.. when using our definition of the word "bad"..
 
That said.. A BUNCH doesnt equal ALL.. or even a MAJORITY..
 
Most muslims I know (and I know tons of them) are just about as focused on their faith and what their Iman tells them on Friday afternoojns.. as most of the Christians I know (know tons of them as well obviously) are focused on their faith and what their preacher tells them on Sunday...
 
Neither party are really muslims or Christians.. and could care less about what is being preached.. they are simply going through the motions.. come monday they are worried about their car notes and their fishing trips again.. and nothing said on Friday/Sunday matters..
 
 

[briarpatch]

Those numbers are in themselves conceived through evil. Never should have happened.
The numbers that have meaning and will never be shown is the amount of money the elite received through these wars.
Wars are designed for the transfer of money from the people to the elite, that will argue they deserve it because they are in league with satan. To effect the greatest transfer of money into their pocket, lives are shed.
Look at who produces war material, transprotation companies, private industry, etc. They now use every country so the amount is much greater in the transfer of money.

[Swampman]

My son is in Iraq and was in Afganistan.  Both were a waste of time, and simply designed to distract us while our retirement accounts were stolen.