Author Topic: Located a 1960's Rare Sako H&R Ultra Bolt action Rifle chambered in .308 Win. (Read 11791 times)

Hammerdown · « **Reply #30 on:** January 13, 2012, 01:37:34 AM »

Quote from: 32 Magnum on January 12, 2012, 08:07:13 AM

Taken from H&R company literature and catalogues:
1965 - 1972 Mauser type action from FN - Belgium
1973 - 1977 Sako actions from Finland
1978 - 1983 Mauser type Mark X action from Zastava Yugoslavia.

One exception - the Model 317 and 317P (1968 - 1974) had Sako actions, exclusively.
H&R Arms Co./H&R Inc. was dissolved in February of 1986.

Do you know what model number you have? Serial number will help to date it.

Hello 32 Magnum
You are correct here in what actions were used by H&R for this rifle. The Sako actions were Control Fed L-461 style actions. My gun was made in 1965 I have all ready determined this. The Model number of mine is a model 300 and it sold for $205.00 Retail in 1967. The ones with a full wood Mannlicher stock's were called number 301's and they sold for $225.00 retail price in 1967. They did Make an economy Version rifle with the Mauser actions. It was in a Traditional standard style walnut stock and called the Model 330. It sold for $144.50 Retail back in 1967. They made a semi auto version with the Fagen stock and it was called the Model 360. It came only in .243 Win. and .308 Win. Calibers and it sold for $179.00 Retail price in 1967 as well

MSP Ret · « **Reply #31 on:** January 13, 2012, 02:50:48 AM »

Hammerdown, I do not believe your H&R Ultra Rifle has been repolished and reblued. I have had mine for many years and the blueing is a fine shiny, smooth, and deep blue just as yours is. Also, the FN Trademark on the receiver is lighter than the words that follow "ACTION - MADE IN BELGIUM", it is in fact, identical to yours. These fine rifles had a lot of time, craftsmanship, and handwork lavished on them. I do believe your metalwork as depicted is all original and as it left the factory. The quailty of work they exhibit is exceptional and hard to come by these days. ...<><....

Swampman · « **Reply #32 on:** January 13, 2012, 03:27:39 AM »

IMO these H&Rs are fully the equal of the Browning boltaction rifles that were made in Belgium. I wouldn't do anything to it.

Hammerdown · « **Reply #33 on:** January 13, 2012, 03:40:02 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret on January 13, 2012, 02:50:48 AM

Hammerdown, I do not believe your H&R Ultra Rifle has been repolished and reblued. I have had mine for many years and the blueing is a fine shiny, smooth, and deep blue just as yours is. Also, the FN Trademark on the receiver is lighter than the words that follow "ACTION - MADE IN BELGIUM", it is in fact, identical to yours. These fine rifles had a lot of time, craftsmanship, and handwork lavished on them. I do believe your metalwork as depicted is all original and as it left the factory. The quailty of work they exhibit is exceptional and hard to come by these days. ...<><....

Hello MSP Ret
I don't think you could buy a new rifle with this kind of quality today... The New Generation of shooter's today do not know what used to be offered for those of us with discriminating Taste's. That said, I do have one other rifle that comes close to this one as far as high quality goes, and that would be my Husqvarna. In the late 1960's S&W sold these under their name and later they were replaced with the much cheaper Howa rifles made in Japan.

This one is in 30-06 and is wearing a period correct Redfield Wide view scope of 3-9 Power....These rifles have a down sized Mauser 98 action that was made in House by Husqvarna of Sweeden.....

MSP Ret · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2012, 04:25:27 AM »

Quote from: 32 Magnum on January 12, 2012, 08:07:13 AM

Taken from H&R company literature and catalogues:
1965 - 1972 Mauser type action from FN - Belgium
1973 - 1977 Sako actions from Finland
1978 - 1983 Mauser type Mark X action from Zastava Yugoslavia.

One exception - the Model 317 and 317P (1968 - 1974) had Sako actions, exclusively.
H&R Arms Co./H&R Inc. was dissolved in February of 1986.

Do you know what model number you have? Serial number will help to date it.

Regarding the serial number, my H&R Ultra Rifle has an FN Mauser action and has serial number 512XX, I believe it to be a 1965 model. Does my serial number confirm it is a 1965 model?...Thanks....<><....

Roy72 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 16, 2012, 07:08:56 AM »

Hammerdown,

You make a good point; I am by no means an expert and I mean no disrespect but in my opinion I just don't see the same quality or feel when I compare this to newer bolt-actions. I was at a gun show this weekend and looked at many, many bolt actions, old and new and there's just something about this H&R that feels different - it really is something special. This is a great thread by the way; I'm new to the appreciation of firearms and I've been obsessed with learning more about this H&R since I got it.

Roy72 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 20, 2012, 01:28:46 PM »

There is a nice Mannlicher 7mm on an auction site now; starting bid is $1050 - what a beauty

Swampman · « **Reply #37 on:** January 20, 2012, 02:19:14 PM »

New boltguns tend to be much more accurate than the older ones. Out of the box MOA accuracy was until recently pretty rare.

tobster · « **Reply #38 on:** January 20, 2012, 04:20:11 PM »

I seem to remember reading about those being the basis of a .17 Mach lV by the O'Brien rifle company in the sixties. Does that sound familiar to anyone or has my mind wondered off the reservation again?

Sprint · « **Reply #39 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:07:10 AM »

tobster,

The model 300 Ultrarifles preceded the O'Brien Rifle Co. purchase by H&R in 1968. These used the Sako L461 Vixen actions exclusively.

Sprint

petemi · « **Reply #40 on:** February 05, 2012, 02:49:30 AM »

I found one in 7mm Mag. at a gun show yesterday. FN action, exactly like the OPs pic. The rifle was pristine, in new in the box condition. Deep, rich bluing and not a scratch or ding anywhere. Beautiful bright bore. If it were .308 or perhaps another non-magnum caliber, it would have come home with me. I agree with MSP Ret, it's a little too fancy to beat around in the bush with. The dealer wanted 585 firm, and I don't think that was bad at all.

Pete

MSP Ret · « **Reply #41 on:** February 05, 2012, 03:37:29 AM »

Good find Pete, just the fact that you got to see one "in the flesh" is an accomplisment. And that $585 was a GREAT price, although I agree the the 7mm Mag chambering was a bit of a deal breaker as well, a standard chambering would heve been much more desireable to me also, however 7mm's are fine rifles. As far as the stock goes there is always the possibility of placing the fancy walnut stock in storage and replacing it temporarily with a synthetic as I have elected to do with my H&R Ultra (30-06). I would have to think long and hard about turning down that fine rifle for that price, caliber notwithstanding. You would not be able to duplicate the quality and workmanship in that rifle today for at least $1500 to $2000 (you could always load it down to 7x57 or .280 Remington equivilant loads)....<><....

MSP Ret · « **Reply #42 on:** February 05, 2012, 03:45:49 AM »

Darn it Pete, now you got me thinking, and we all know that can be a bad thing. I have to rush off to church right now but if you could would you please PM me the info on the dealer that had that rifle. Or, if you don't have the info could you let me know how to get it or perhaps locate it for me?...Thanks buddy...and have a happy Super Bowl Sunday....<><....

petemi · « **Reply #43 on:** February 05, 2012, 04:05:39 AM »

Andy, PM sent. I tossed and turned last night wondering if I should have bought it for an investment, but I'm holding out for a Marlin 1894CL in .32-20.

It's funny, I was scouting the tables looking for a .35 Rem for cwlongshot, other Handis, and the .32-20, barely glancing at the bolt guns. My buddy said "Hey Pete, look at that. An H&R bolt action". I did find a .30-06 Handi NH serial in plain but fine condition for 175, but I left that one there too.

Pete

tobster · « **Reply #44 on:** February 05, 2012, 04:55:36 AM »

I bet Petemi's gonna have non-buyers remorse. It's funny how those "ones that got away" can come back and haunt a person for years to come.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #45 on:** February 05, 2012, 07:33:36 AM »

Thank you Andy for maybe snaching that . I was sittin here going crazy as I finally found and was able to secure a 41mag Revolver that I have been trying to get for about three yrs trying to get this one also would put a strain on the guns budget I have not had for a while be sure to post pictures if you get it. kurt

Hammerdown · « **Reply #46 on:** February 05, 2012, 11:01:42 PM »

Quote from: tobster on February 05, 2012, 04:55:36 AM

I bet Petemi's gonna have non-buyers remorse. It's funny how those "ones that got away" can come back and haunt a person for years to come.

Hello
I Pased on One Too and that Mistake cost me a 25 Year Hunt for the one I have now chambered in .308 Winchester caliber. Make No Mistake these do Not come often, and I will not Pass on any other's if they are in anything other than the .308 Wichester round like I all ready have.... Hammerdown

Hammerdown · « **Reply #47 on:** February 09, 2012, 02:13:48 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on January 20, 2012, 02:19:14 PM

New boltguns tend to be much more accurate than the older ones. Out of the box MOA accuracy was until recently pretty rare.

Hello
I don't know what Guns you have fired, or owned in the past that suffered from accuracy, but the ones I have are all Tack drivers and are all from the Mid 1960's time span. Of course the ones I speak of in my collection are Ithaca's made by Tika, Sako's from Finland, Husqvarna's of Sweeden, and now my H&R, which has a Belgium action mated with a fully adjustable Sako trigger and Douglas Barrel. I would Put any of my European Made rifles up against any of these Current cookie cutter stamped out wonder's they are offering these days in the United States. Savage does not have the Market cornered with their accu trigger as most of mine have Higher quality fully adjustable triggers that came in them when they were made new, and Not Bragged about like Savage uses their adjustable trigger to market their guns. Companies like Canjar, Rifle Basix and Jewell have made ton's of money off guys that bought american Made guns that suffered from sub standard triggers. I choose to Put my money into the Older European rifles due to their supreme accuracy and high quality.

Swampman · « **Reply #48 on:** February 09, 2012, 03:37:22 AM »

It's only been the last 15 years or so that sub-MOA out of the box became the norm for production rifles. The rifles you mentioned pretty much suffer from a Mauser type action which prevents best accuracy. I wouldn't own a Savage BTW. Remington triggers have always been good and adjustable. I do appreciate older European rifle quality and they are accurate enough for big game hunting.

Hammerdown · « **Reply #49 on:** February 10, 2012, 01:04:01 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 09, 2012, 03:37:22 AM

The rifles you mentioned pretty much suffer from a Mauser type action which prevents best accuracy. I wouldn't own a Savage BTW. Remington triggers have always been good and adjustable.

Hello Swampman
Sorry but I have to disagree with you as The Mauser action is the strongest action ever made bar none. It will take more pressure than any action out there including the Remington 700's. I have had many 700's in the past that do not hold a candle to my European rifles as far quality or accuracy goes but I do have a Remington model 788 that comes mighty close, but we all know they quit making them. The reason Remington ceased the making of the 788's is because guy's were buying them instead of the higher price Model 700's. Even the Remington Factory shooting Team was using the 788's due to their fine accuracy & They have a 60 Degree bolt lock up which mean's faster lock up times, for timed event's. There only draw back's is the soldered on bolt's that can break off if cycled too fast or hard, and the cheaply made stamped out trigger assemblies that are not adjustable but are safer than the Model 700's that have earned the reputation of Unintended discharge's. I have found that a rifle's Barrel is the Key to Tack driver accuracy, not the actions the bullets flight and P.O.I. is all dependent on the rifling tollerances of the barrel they are shot out of. My newest addition being this H&R that has a Douglas Barrel Made here in the United States. It is an air gap style barrel and Deadly accurate. Douglas Throws away barrel's that other United states manufacturer's would use on their Gun's that do not measure up to Douglas's standards for supreme accuracy. I will agree that some Mauser actioned rifles have gotten some bad reports, but those were used in Military style rifles due to lower grade barrels screwed into them, but as far as Sako, Ithaca which was made by Tika of Finland, and Husqvarna in my case I have not Owned one that does not drive Tacks with my hand loads in it, I do not shoot Factory ammo I find what work's in my rifles and stick with it....The new Generation Remington's are a Joke as far as quality goes, I wouldn't waste my time even looking at any them. They also took over Marlin Arms and the New Generation 336 rifles are lousy as far as fit, finish or performance goes. Try cycling one of the new model 336's some time their Crude Machine work that they Leave the factory with makes them feel like they bind when cycled, and the trigger pull is Horrendous, to me Remington ruined a Good time honored Proven rifle when they started making them & To me that is not Company pride in workmanship it is just a way to see how many they can get out the door, and that is not what I want to Own or shoot...My Hunting Buddy has 25 Remington rifles in his collection and when he joined me recently I let him shoot this H&R. He Hated to admit it, But after 20 Rounds down the barrel of it, he was sold on the guns supreme accuracy. I knew what he was attempting to do, as he ran pretty close together with the shots he fired out of it and the barrel got hot, he expected it to walk the shots across the Target from having a hot barrel but it shot every bit as good hot as it did with the first Three out of the stone cold barrel. He now has asked me to look for one for him to add to his gun safe, and was very Humble on the ride home from the Range that day, not bragging so hard about his Vintage Remington 700's. Winchester used to have a good reputation as far as Rifle's went, at least in their Pre-1964 Guns, but the later ones they produced were not what the old ones were as I had one of their Early 1980's Feather Light bolt action rifles that would not print good groups and I spent much on bedding it to only Very slightly improve it's accuracy, as it still would not print a dime size group at 100 yard's like my European rifles can and will do. I have pretty much given up on any guns made here in The United States of late Manufacture as they do not measure up, & I would rather spend my Hard earned money on high quality European rifles that are held to a higher standard and Perform better for me...It's Ok to admire Gun's made here in The United States, I just Prefer the European rifles when it comes down to my Personal target or hunting choice. Perhap's some of the other's in this Thread that Own these fine made H&R rifles will chime in and share with us what their rifles group like ? I did fire some Cheap Basic Federal High shock $12.00 a Box ammo through my gun when I first got it as I needed some brass to hand load for it and it shot amazinly tight groups with it, but As I said, I do Not shoot Factory ammo perhap's the other's that own these rifles do fire factory higher priced amo in their's and I myself would like to hear how these guns do with higher grade fSupreme actory ammo ?

Swampman · « **Reply #50 on:** February 10, 2012, 02:20:06 AM »

The Remington 700 will hold 2-3+ times the pressures that any Mauser action will and it doesn't flex like a Mauser so you get much better accuracy. The Remington 700 will go off when you pull the trigger and many idiots do that with it pointed in the wrong direction. Being hamstrung with a Mauser action is acceptable for big game hunting but you'll never see one at a bench rest match because they just aren't that accurate. I like Mausers but then again I like antique designs, and I'm willing to suffer with their failings. I really like Falling Blocks and Rolling Blocks. If accuracy is your goal then you'll need a push feed boltaction. You'll also need a gun built using CNC machinery to get the tolerances required. In the 1950s it was almost unheard of to get a rifle that would shoot MOA or better. The Model 700 changed all that.

wvjoetc · « **Reply #51 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:59:17 PM »

Hey guys, I just found this thread. I have an H&R Model 301 in 243, Manlicher stock and 18" Douglas barrel, it has a Leupold 6X heavy crosshair scope. Jack always call this a Mauser Supreme action. My ol hunting buddy bought this gun new, Jack has passed on now but if I remember correctly he told me he bought this gun in the late 70's or early 80's. This gun has killed more WV whitetails than a pickup truck could carry. I worked with Jack for 15 years and he let me use this gun to deer hunt with, I traded Jack out of it about 7 years ago, and I lost my best huntin buddy in June of 2010. I'm sorry I'm not very computer savy I'd post a pic, but if one of you all will PM me with your email address I can do that. Thanks for this post it brings back lots of good memories for me and good hunts with my best buddy.

Joe

cwlongshot · « **Reply #52 on:** March 06, 2012, 11:59:56 PM »

Quote from: wvjoetc on March 06, 2012, 04:59:17 PM

Hey guys, I just found this thread. I have an H&R Model 301 in 243, Manlicher stock and 18" Douglas barrel, it has a Leupold 6X heavy crosshair scope. Jack always call this a Mauser Supreme action. My ol hunting buddy bought this gun new, Jack has passed on now but if I remember correctly he told me he bought this gun in the late 70's or early 80's. This gun has killed more WV whitetails than a pickup truck could carry. I worked with Jack for 15 years and he let me use this gun to deer hunt with, I traded Jack out of it about 7 years ago, and I lost my best huntin buddy in June of 2010. I'm sorry I'm not very computer savy I'd post a pic, but if one of you all will PM me with your email address I can do that. Thanks for this post it brings back lots of good memories for me and good hunts with my best buddy.

Joe

Good story! You can email it to me I will post here for you.

cwlongshot@att.net

CW

Here is the only pic that I was able to open...

I replied and requested pics be sent again but got no answers...

CW

MSP Ret · « **Reply #53 on:** March 07, 2012, 03:57:33 AM »

Looking forward to seeing the picture and thanks for the great story. They just don't make fine quality guns like that anymore, unless you get a custom made, hand assembled rifle for a lot of money. The mass produced rifles spit out by assembly lines these days will never feel the same or be as good as these fine old QUALITY guns....Congratulations on your rifle and sorry for the loss of your friend....<><....

MSP Ret · « **Reply #54 on:** March 19, 2012, 10:54:21 AM »

Well guys, I finally got up to my FFL and picked up the 7mm Rem Mag. When I spoke to my FFL over the phone he went on and on about what a great rifle it was and that he thought it was new. When I told him it possibly dated back to the 1960's he could not believe it. He told me it looked as it had never been fired. I picked it up and the markings on this one are different than the markings on my 30-06 H&R "Ultra Rifle". The action is not marked FN and may be a Sako, I will check the marks with my books when I get home from work today. Also on the barrel it says Model 300. The finish is a finely polished high gloss blue and the action feels like glass, it even has a good trigger but these have adjustable Sako triggers so how it is set now does not really matter. The stock is a wonderful handcheckered piece of Walnut with the sculptered design with a roll over Monte Carlo cheekpiece and the fancy contrasting wooden nosecap and gripcap. All in all a beautiful rifle. Now to start putting in for a Moose permit in Maine.

Hey wvjotc, how about posting some pictures of the fine Mannlicher example you have? I for one, and I'm sure others, would like to see them....<><....

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #55 on:** March 25, 2012, 10:00:44 AM »

To petemi, PHATINJUN, and all the other guys lusting after a standard caliber H&R Model 300. I just found this, a H&R Model 300 in 30-06. Description states receiver and barrel are Belgium made by FN, Fajen stock, late 70's production. Looks like a decent buy.
See link, someone do me a favor and buy it. I just spent some big money on another gun. The wife will kill me if I buy another one so soon. I only ask whomever purchases it to post some nice photos on this link.

http://www.gunsamerica.com//978466588/Guns/Rifles/Harrington-Richardson-Rifles/H_R_MODEL_300_30_06_CALIBER.htm?wl=1

MSP Ret · « **Reply #56 on:** March 25, 2012, 10:37:24 AM »

A great rifle, however I do think the description is in error in a couple of minir points. Most actions were made by FN (some by Sako) and I believe the barrels were by Douglas..all in all a GREAT rifle. Also IIRC they started production of the first type in the 60's. I have read that there were under 1,000 rifles produced....<><....

wvjoetc · « **Reply #57 on:** March 26, 2012, 06:14:05 AM »

Hey CW,
Thanks for posting the pics for me, I've had some computer issues at home and been on the road and haven't been at my work computer. I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to your, hopefuly this week I can get my home computer fixed. Also guys I'm sorry for the Blackberry pics they are not that clear. Thanks again buddy,

Joe

Swampman · « **Reply #58 on:** March 26, 2012, 01:45:01 PM »

What makes it rare?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #59 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:48:26 PM »

Quote from: wvjoetc on March 26, 2012, 06:14:05 AM

Hey CW,
Thanks for posting the pics for me, I've had some computer issues at home and been on the road and haven't been at my work computer. I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to your, hopefuly this week I can get my home computer fixed. Also guys I'm sorry for the Blackberry pics they are not that clear. Thanks again buddy,

Joe

You are quite welcome!

When you get things fixed, send pics again I'll host and post them for you!

CW