Author Topic: Handi-Pistol?  (Read 1087 times)

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Offline huntingohio

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Handi-Pistol?
« on: November 19, 2011, 02:09:32 PM »
Disclaimer- Theory only at the moment
 
Ok so after some research of serious hunting handguns [44 mag and up], I have relized that I'm looking at a minumum of $600 [used even!!!!] to pick up a legal hunting handgun for my area [5 in barrel minum, using straightwalled cartrisge of .38 or larger].
SBH-$600used
contender- $600 used
thats rediculous honestly
so to the gun shelf I go.... I imediately spy my good old nef parner 12, now she could be fitted with a 44 mag barrel.. but rifles are illegal for deer in ohio.
Now at the gun range I meant a guy using a bolt action pistol the looked pretty mauserish to me, so i asked and it was a k98 in .30. Apparently for $250 the atf will reregister your arm as a handgun.
Now the wheels are spinning, i could have much much loved but recently neglected 12 fitted with a 44mag barrel, pay the tax and have a 44 mag for around $400 even less if i bargain shopped and did the work by hand.
 
Please talk me out of this before I send my money to the atf

Offline Dinny

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2011, 03:31:01 PM »
Larry (Trotterlg) made a .22 Hornet Handi pistol once. It had some problems and ended-up being cut up and parts of it sold. He could really lend a helpful thought or two to your project idea. ;)

Besides that, I paid $400 for my stainless .44 Mag Contender. They're out there, just gotta wait a little while sometimes.


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Offline watkibe

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2011, 04:36:00 PM »
I have thought about this before...Now that H&R has the new thumbhole "Handi-Grip" stock available, it's even easier. It has a perfect pistol grip, much like a SA revolver, which could be easily liberated with a hacksaw and then sanded for neatness. It looks so easy that calling BATFE FIRST would be mandatory, 'cus just sittin', lookin' at it with a hack saw in your hand could turn into an illegal rifle turned into a handgun in a half hour or so, lol.
 
 
New Handi-Grip Handi Rifle

Offline slngblde

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2011, 04:44:18 PM »
Only legal way to make a handi a pistol is to file a form 1 with the atf and send in a check for $200, if/when approved then you can legally cut the gun down. This is necessary since once its assembled into a rifle a receiver cannot be made into a pistol. Posession of a unregistered cut down one is a felony. Building one is on my short list of guns to do, but im waiting till i get my ffl/sot in the spring/early summer. That way it will be constructed under my future business name and thats what will be engraved on it instead of my name and address. It would be a lot easier if you could buy a receiver from h&r but they dont sell them.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2011, 04:48:29 PM »
Well, Rossi has begun making this style pistol and I've been watching.  Not sure what level they intend to get into this market, but  if H&R doesn't end up doing so, I think the Rossi looks pretty nice and has been callin to me a bit.  ;)
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/955/products_id/74819
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline slngblde

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2011, 04:59:56 PM »
From what ive been reading ( not about that gun in particular) taurus/rossi has tremendous quality control problems ... much worse than remington/marlin/bushmaster/h&r does these days. A post popped up on another forum im on showing a brand new taurus millenium pro 45 that split in half after one magazine. Id rather use a known solid h&r older sb2 receiver and pay the tax stamp than trust a rossi.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2011, 05:13:04 PM »
Personally, I think a modern Handi would make a terrible pistol with the long tang and heavy barrel contour, they aren't anything like the original Handygun which had a lighter frame and thinner barrel contour, a modern conversion would be way too club like IMO.

Tim

I have thought about this before...Now that H&R has the new thumbhole "Handi-Grip" stock available, it's even easier. It has a perfect pistol grip, much like a SA revolver, which could be easily liberated with a hacksaw and then sanded for neatness. It looks so easy that calling BATFE FIRST would be mandatory, 'cus just sittin', lookin' at it with a hack saw in your hand could turn into an illegal rifle turned into a handgun in a half hour or so, lol.

Why ruin a perfectly good Handi-grip when Choate already makes a pistol grip.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/589774/choate-pistol-grip-h-and-r-nef-12-16-20-410-gauge-composite-black


 
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Offline Lon371

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2011, 09:37:51 PM »
 I think it would make an ugly unhandy handgun(just my opinion). I have seen Savage Stryker 7-08 for $250, Contender 45lc for $400. I say save up the $4oo and keep watching for a real one ;) . If you have a dealer you deal with. One that will not rape you on transfer, check around the web.  The Rossi combo 45lc/22lr would make a nice one to hunt and target with at $262.
 
Lonny

Offline knight0334

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 10:29:44 PM »
Disclaimer- Theory only at the moment
 
Ok so after some research of serious hunting handguns [44 mag and up], I have relized that I'm looking at a minumum of $600 [used even!!!!] to pick up a legal hunting handgun for my area [5 in barrel minum, using straightwalled cartrisge of .38 or larger].
SBH-$600used
contender- $600 used
thats rediculous honestly
so to the gun shelf I go.... I imediately spy my good old nef parner 12, now she could be fitted with a 44 mag barrel.. but rifles are illegal for deer in ohio.
Now at the gun range I meant a guy using a bolt action pistol the looked pretty mauserish to me, so i asked and it was a k98 in .30. Apparently for $250 the atf will reregister your arm as a handgun.
Now the wheels are spinning, i could have much much loved but recently neglected 12 fitted with a 44mag barrel, pay the tax and have a 44 mag for around $400 even less if i bargain shopped and did the work by hand.
 
Please talk me out of this before I send my money to the atf

The ATF will not register it as a "handgun".  It will be registered as a "Short Barreled Rifle".   Once a gun has had a shoulder stock attached it can NEVER legally be a handgun ever.   As a legally made SBR, you can then build it in the configuration of a handgun - but legally it is a Short Barreled Rifle.

The fee for the tax stamp is $200.  It require filling out an application in duplicate.  Also finger print cards, getting your CLEO to sign off on the forms, passport pics, and a affidavit form.

It is the same process to legally make a "Short Barreled Shotgun", or a suppressor, a destructive device, or any other NFA device.   Also, the ATF will not approve you for the device if it is unlawful to possess one in your state.
RIP ~ Teeny: b.10/27/66 - d.07/03/07

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 10:12:48 AM »
I think the original idea was to have H&R produce one, but I might be wrong.  If they produce it as a pistol, it'd be no different than a contender etc.  As long as the barrel was under 16" long.  ;)
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline keith44

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 01:14:38 PM »
A hunting handgun (at least for me to own it) needs the following:


1) 7 to 10 inch barrel
2) ability to mount optics
3) good mass to help control recoil
4) comfortable grips (properly designed for consistent shot to shot accuracy)
5) a good trigger




I carry a Ruger Super RedHawk .44 mag (+P loads) (yep look em up) This gun is as strong as the T/C offerings, equally as accurate (with good handloads), wears a 2x scope that has never moved in 8 years of hard shooting.  I have the advantage of quick follow up shots as needed.  (one year I tagged out in the modern gun deer season on opening morning, after 15 minutes on stand I had one Buck and three does come into range, all went to the freezer, and I still had two in the chamber)


These can be picked up for about $300 used.
Here's someone else's review:


http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_super_redhawk.htm



keep em talkin' while I reload
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2011, 02:55:23 PM »
OK, here is how to do it, you check the laws first, then you decide.  Buy a H&R Sidekick BP rifle.  Now you need to do a little machine work on the shortened frame, there is a chunk of metal cast into the bottom of the frame just behind the hinge pin you will need to remove.  Then you take a H&R Shotgun barrel and cut it down like you are making any other stub barrel.  You will need to shorten the underlug to match the sidekick length, do a little welding and machine work.  Not too hard.  The Sidekick is not covered under the gun control act because it is a muzzel loader, so you do not need to worry about anyting in those laws, this is what they say, direct from the ATF:
 
An antique firearm as defined in both
the GCA and NFA is exempt from all of
the provisions and restrictions contained
in both laws. Consequently, such an
antique firearm may be bought, sold,
transported, shipped, etc., without regard
to the requirements of these laws.
Under the Arms Export Control Act
certain "antique firearms" are not subject
to the import controls under that Act.
These "antique firearms" are defined as
“muzzle loading (black powder) firearms
(including any firearm with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type
of ignition system) or firearms covered
by Category I(a) established to have
been manufactured in or before 1898.”
 
Now just do a little work on things and off you go, remember, I may be telling you a lie, and the state goverments all have different rules, just read about what you are going to do and only believe what you know to be true your self.  That being said my gun shot poorly and the grief I got from this board was just not worth enduring, so I just cut it up and was done with the science experment.  Larry
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Offline keith44

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 04:43:45 PM »
once you modify the muzzleloader to accept fixed ammunition you have just illegally made a firearm, I strongly advise against this method
keep em talkin' while I reload
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 05:02:05 PM »
Yes, you now see what abuse you will get on the boards on this subject, like "you will go to jail forever", "they will come and take you kids from you", and lots of other things that you can only dream up if you are on drugs.  Fact is that (acording to the feds) you can build any firearm that is legal for you to own.  Now you guys see why it just isn't worth the abuse you will get if you build one of these things and tell about it.  Every one needs to read and understand the laws before they post paranoid things.  Larry
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 05:29:44 PM »
The subject of self constructed guns has come up on several sites I read at more than one time. It is perfectly legal so long as you are making a LEGAL firearm. A 10" barreled pistol is not a violation of Federal law, so if it's legal to own a Contender where you live it's legal to do what he just described.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2011, 05:47:05 PM »
For a lot less money and trouble you will be able to buy a handgun that actually works and handles well. Just start saving the lunch or cig money and carry it with you, when a deal comes along you can get low and talk cash.
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2011, 05:56:55 PM »
I am no stranger to building handi's, I did this one to the best of my ability and it still shot like crap, it was a great adventure, but I would never do it again, you cannot believe the number of crazy PM's I got when I posted about it.  Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline keith44

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2011, 06:26:42 PM »
being a former holder of FFL (still in good standing) the rules you cite are for muzzleloaders, there is an exception for long arms for personal use, but without proper permits the altering of a muzzle loader into a weapon firing fixed ammo, and the building of a handgun from a former rifle is expressly not allowed by any federal law

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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2011, 06:59:13 PM »
B.S. read the law.  This subject attracts all the know it all's in the free world.  Just amazing, I will probably have a dozen PM's just like this in the morning, and know what?  I will still be a free man!  As I said, go to the trouble to read the real law, not what you have heard in some bar.  Larry
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Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 05:17:02 AM »
Here are a couple to see what they may look some what like. I have since worked the grips a little and have gotten a dove tail cutter but haven't put sights on them yet. Kurt
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Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 05:26:09 AM »
I am no stranger to building handi's


no you are not and I say a little thank you every time I shoot either my .32 Huntsman or my 32 H&R Mag rifles. thank you Kurt
Deceased 2/16/24
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/machesney-park-il/kurt-heckman-11671764

Sportster17M2,20"Nickle410Tamer,26"410,
WTUTI12ga,WTU25-06,M158 22RemJet, 24"Ultra.204Ruger24"UltraFluted.204Ruger
M157Mannliker.22Hornet,24".223UltraFluted,   24".223Ultra,7X64BrenekkeUltra,22-250AIUltraFluted            7.62x39,22"303Britstub.32H&Rmag, .32303BritstubHuntsman,24" SS.50calHuntsman 58calHuntsman 12gaHuntsman
NEF RevolversSSModel73.32H&Rmag                     Blued Model73.32H&R mag The herd is shrinking!!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 05:36:34 AM »
Why not a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 colt ? Around here you see them for 350 up. With good handloads you can get close to 44 mag power. You don't get on a "LIST" and you have 5 back up shots .........
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2011, 07:39:18 AM »
Quote
Here are a couple to see what they may look some what like. I have since worked the grips a little and have gotten a dove tail cutter but haven't put sights on them yet. Kurt

i just totally lost my desire to build one of these.... that is NOT how i wanted the grips to end up looking...
 
thanks for posting pics...
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 07:40:59 AM »
since my thread about this got destroyed a couple weeks ago i will post in this one... i will either wait and buy an Encore pistol or Contender or MOA maximum when i get ready to have a single shot pistol... still want one in 444... sigh
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2011, 10:56:53 AM »
Just an addendum to the "build your own" according to the gun smithing classes I have taken at the local community college, that are taught by a retired LEO, making your own for your own use is legal. The only rule is it obey all rules governing barrel length and Trigger action (one pull one round) and if it ever changes hands it needs a serial number, even if it's "1".
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Offline huntingohio

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Re: Handi-Pistol?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 12:38:05 PM »
After years of only using h&r products, I'm saddened that i may just have to buy a SRH.