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Offline tacklebury

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.22_30M1
« on: November 20, 2011, 04:30:40 PM »
Ok, I've never done wildcatting or gun building.  I got my first round of .223 down-powered rounds out and going and like it for a reloadable.  Thing I keep looking at is I really didn't want so much case capacity or a fat short case.  I keep going back to my .30 M-1 Carbine case and liking what I see.  Why wouldn't it be possible to use the shorter m-1 carbine brass, necked down to .224.  It's still a fairly common brass and it has good bit less capacity and yet shouldn't be as weak as the .22 Hornet.  I really like my .223 also, but just thought I'd throw this out as it seems like little needed to change the case and it might be possible to use existing bolts and just rebarrel an M-1 Carbine to get it semi-auto.  Interested to hear what everyone thinks.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline smokehouserex

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 04:44:32 PM »

  Hello tacklebury:
  I also love wildcat concepts. The 30 carbine is a cool little ctg. I remember the first one that I ever used for deer hunting. It belonged to my BIL and he didn't deer hunt so he wanted me to try it out. I shot a little 4 pt. about 100 lbs. I loved the size and weight as well as the short length. A fun little gun.
  I have read that they have been chambered to a lot of different calibers, even 50 cal, don't remember if it was a linebaugh or action express, they blew it up! 
  If you are interested in a 22 why not look at the 221 fireball. It would save custom dies ect. expense.  But that is not what you wanted, so I do think the 30 cal carbine would make a great little 22 wildcat.
 safety first
  HM
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 04:58:25 PM »
Yes, the .221 is a viable possibility although it's still about a quarter inch longer and slightly larger diameter.  I know there's been a bunch of .22 wildcats, so may be re-inventing something already done.  It just looks very streamlined from here..  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 03:59:30 PM »
I now have and load for my grand-dad's m1 carbine too.  ;)  Been having great luck with the 1/2 jacket hornady 110's and a minimum load of H-110 per Hodgdon's spec.  Very accurate.  ;)  I have talked with a guy at work that has Quickload II and he said he may try to develop this case after Deer season is over.  He's still hunting for his buck this year, so that's understandable.  Part of the reason for looking at this alternative is I'd like to be able to fill the case with black powder also to push the bullet and the .223 case just has too much capacity for a good BP load.  We'll see what his quickload things and go from there.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline leadbutt

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 01:37:43 PM »
Look up the 22 johnson, been done all ready
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2011, 04:31:09 PM »
Sweet!  That mean there's already reamers and such?  I know, I know, I'll do some searching too.  Be cool if I can find dies etc for this.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2011, 04:44:59 PM »
Ok, I found it listed as 22 Spitfire/ 5.7mm Johnson and found a reamer for this available here: http://www.z-hat.com/ReamerList.htm
 
Does anyone know anything about this company z-hat?  And has anyone actually used this wildcat or have any ideas on dies to use for it?  I have some .22 barrels I might be able to cut down and stub to my H&R .410 slender frame to play with.  ;)  I appreciate the lead.  I am not intending to use this as a High speed varmint, but rather as a simple reloadable .22 with reduced capacity that BP might work well in, so load power will down a lot.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline dant

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2011, 06:21:46 AM »
Check this out..........
 
http://surestrikesystem.com/
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2011, 05:32:04 PM »
Pretty neat.  Going to review stuff there.  8)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline StrawHat

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 01:37:22 AM »
At one time, Johnson advertised carbines converted to the Spitfire cartridge and suggested they be used in jungle environments.  He thought highly of his cartridge and why not?  from the M1 cabine, it probably did as he said.  I have never used or even handled one so I do not know first hand.
 
Z Hat has been around long enough to know how to keep customers happy.  He does a lot of work on bolt actions and lever guns.
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Offline jlwilliams

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 01:57:49 AM »
  IIRC Numrich had 22 Johnson barrels for the M1 carbine a couple of years ago.  For a while it was a pretty popular cartridge/gun combo.  If you look around I'm sure you can find some brass, dies, etc, maybe even some loaded ammo. 
 
  It's really a pretty good concept.  The original idea was to sell the idea to the Army (always a good idea to target a customer who buys in BIG volume) so they could convert the millions of aging guns and buy new ones from companies that had fully amortised tooling.  While the 5.7 Johnson doesn't have the power of the .223 out of a 20" barrel, I'll bet that a little carbine shooting it is pretty close to what an M4 with the 14" or even the 12" barrels you see these days will do.  Give tne length of an M4s buffer assembly, the 18" barreled m1 carbine with the side folder is probably more compact than a 12" AR type gun.  The M1 carbine was arguable pretty close in concept to what the "new" PDW weapons are.  If they had adopted the 5.7 M1 carbines back in the '60s it would have been just exactly what FN and others are hocking today, just 50 years earlier.
 
  As a light, handy sporter for small game/vermin it's a darned good package.  That cartridge with the right projos in a bolt action or a single would be pretty fair coyote medicine.
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Offline jlwilliams

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 02:38:17 AM »
There is one on gunbroker now.  A rifle, the seller has some ammo for sale too.  the item number is 264027188. 
 
  No need to reinvent the wheel.  The hard part of this one is coming up with the cash to just buy a wheel.
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 02:05:07 PM »
Thanks for the responses guys.  I really don't intend to alter Grand dad's M1 carbine in any way, rather thought I'd stub this into an H&R barrel to start with.  I looked for a bit, but don't seem to locate dies for the .22 Spitfire/5.7mm Johnson and that's a bit harder to find than the reamer.  I like the looks of the Garrett .22 as they offer dies and such also.  I have had another thought, which some may laugh at, but buddy of mine's got a lathe and we're going to to make a solid .223 brass shell, with a single bore down the center sized for the .223 bullets.  This means I wouldn't have to fill or deal with the extra case capacity and it'd really be much closer to .22 mag capacity.  This would make black powder loads a no-brainer and with the low pressures I'm getting with my downloads, it might work well.  I may yet play with this idea and see how one works.  Might drop the primer seat down to the small pistol depth also and try it with pistol primers first.  Can always make it deeper again if need be.  Meantime, will continue to consider this option.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline StrawHat

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2011, 12:34:12 AM »
Quote from: tacklebury on December 12, 2011, 02:05:07 PM
... but don't seem to locate dies for the .22 Spitfire/5.7mm Johnson and that's a bit harder to find than the reamer. 

Once you have the reamer, make your own dies.
 
 
Quote from: tacklebury on December 12, 2011, 02:05:07 PM
...make a solid .223 brass shell, with a single bore down the center sized for the .223 bullets.  This means I wouldn't have to fill or deal with the extra case capacity and it'd really be much closer to .22 mag capacity.  This would make black powder loads a no-brainer and with the low pressures I'm getting with my downloads, it might work well.  I may yet play with this idea and see how one works...

You can do this without the use of a lathe.  An 22 air rifle pellet loaded in the neck and a primer for the propellant has worked in a lot of 22 caliber rifles.  I use this set up in a 22 WCF.  It can be taken a step further in cartridges larger than the Hornet by drilling or reaming the primer pocket to accept a shotgun primer.  Then the pellet can be loaded through the primer hole and a primer inserted.  Accuracy is not sterling with either method but it works for varmits in the garden.  And faily quiet.
 
Currently being discussed here.
 
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,246830.msg1099429518/topicseen.html#msg1099429518
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Offline GLShooter

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 11:55:12 AM »
A  friend has a 5.7 Johnson. He has a blast with his. Dies are available (form and loading) from RCBS but CH4D has the best price on them.
 
I have two NEW barrels one from Numrich and one from Fulton in the closet. I just need to grab my Blue Sky Carbine and send it off to be done. Not many people work on them. I will do mine up as a straight pull bolt gun not as a semi-auto. I also want to try my hand at doing a Mannlicher stock on this one.
 
Greg
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Offline wyb

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Re: .22_30M1
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2012, 01:13:06 PM »
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