If The South Had Won?

[wncchester]

"Inasmuch as the South could barely make a cannon during the Civil War, does anybody believe that just 35 years later, they would have had the industry, engineering skills or wealth to built  the fleets of huge dreadnaught battleships that dominated world power and affairs in the 1890s?   The northern U.S., England, Spain, Germany, France and even heck Japan had such fleets.  The South plainly would not."
 
Yes, they could and would have.  Southern industry was in infancy but, with coal, steel and other minerals in plenty, within a couple of decades the South would have equalled the North in most respects, including the abolution of black slavery which really wasn't a very cost effective labor system.  The industrial revelolution, electricity and steam power needed and would have driven a rapid expansion of education for everyone which would have then fueled a universal social and industrial growth that would have exceeded what the north's wealthy classes permited up there for a very long time.

[dakotashooter2]

Or another thought... Would Britain have tried to regain its control of the US attempting to take over one country then the next.

[gstewart44]

Or another thought... Would Britain have tried to regain its control of the US attempting to take over one country then the next.

Hmmmm...... in the latter half of the 1800's during Queen Victoria's reign of EMPIRE expansion......... ya think?? I say the answer is a most definite yes. 

[greenmtnboy]

Or another thought... Would Britain have tried to regain its control of the US attempting to take over one country then the next.

Hmmmm...... in the latter half of the 1800's during Queen Victoria's reign of EMPIRE expansion......... ya think? ? I say the answer is a most definite yes.

  Agreed..   and a great reason why the North felt the need to keep the Country United .

[gstewart44]

Or another thought... Would Britain have tried to regain its control of the US attempting to take over one country then the next.

Hmmmm...... in the latter half of the 1800's during Queen Victoria's reign of EMPIRE expansion......... ya think? ? I say the answer is a most definite yes.

  Agreed..   and a great reason why the North felt the need to keep the Country United .

Even though it is a logical reason, I don't think for the minute that Lincoln gave one bit of thought to European re-conquest of the Americas if the Union did not stay intact.   

[greenmtnboy]

Being a logical Reason Why wouldnt he have Thought of it ?
If not by him someone with him perhaps. 

[Bob Riebe]

Even though it is a logical reason, I don't think for the minute that Lincoln gave one bit of thought to European re-conquest of the Americas if the Union did not stay intact. [/q][/q]

Based on what facts or conjured logic?

[reliquary]

I can't post any specific references at the moment; will have to do some reading. 
 
Europe continued to do business with both sides in the Civil War. They  traded war supplies for cotton from the South; some was smuggled out via Mexico and some came out via blockade runner.  They sold and traded other things to the North.
 
Europe, at the time of the Civil War, was more dependent on cotton from the South than they were for "other goods" from the North.  There was a genuine sense of urgency on the part of the North about that, in message traffic I saw among the various military departments and the War Department, when researching "A Compendium of the Official Records" for a project.
 
 I think it would be a stretch of the imagination to conclude that Lincoln wasn't wary of of continued European interference in the Americas and didn't include it in his strategy, at least in part.  France was still involved in Mexico, Mexico was still mad about the wars with Texas and the US, England owned Canada and was still involved in our Pacific Nortwest.  All of them were at least as expansionist-minded as we were.
 
 

[crappie10]

on one hand, i think the north would have tried to get as much western territory as possible. on the other hand, with the South winning, I think the North would have been ripe for invasion from the English and when that was done, the South would have been next.

[BAGTIC]

The CSA would have tried to expand into Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean. Following the Mexican War a conspiracy was uncovered of certain southern politicians and military officers to seize Cuba and this was before the Civil War.
Slavery would have ended eventually as slaves were replaced by mechanization. Also major markets for cotton in Great Britain were already being replaced as the Brits began developing cotton plantations in Egypt and India.
Slavery hurt the South because the slaves were not paid and themselves represented substantial capial investment. Being ineligible to vote they weakened southern political influence and being poor they provided no regional market to support southern industries. This made the SSouth much more dependent upon imports, both from abroad and the North, which caused an outflow of cash.
The South seceded to maintain slavery yet secession was unnecessary as they could have blocked the admission of future slave free states.
Lincoln may have said a nation can not endure half slave, half free but he also said he could abide slavery continuing in the South in order to preserve the Union. Nonetheless the South seceded and we ended up with two nation, one free, one slave and we abided that also.
The Union did not go to war because of secession. It continued efforts to work out some sort of compromise that would preserve the Union. Unfortunately South Carolina idiots were determined to force their will on everyone else, North and South, and they launched an unprovoked war. It was a precursor to Pearl Harbor and ended the same way. If the South had merely walked away and never  looked back all of this could have been avoided. They already had their victory, independence, but they wouldn't be satisfied.

[BAGTIC]

If the south had won the war, the only direction they could expand would be South.  Mexico would not have been an option.  Why stop one war for yet another fight?    Perhaps, the Caribbean islands, but who knows?

The most likely scenario is that the South would be confined within its original borders.

ST762
 
Mexico would have been a push over just as it was in 1848. The CSAwould not have been interested in most of it anyway just the coastal lowlands with the best cotton potential. They could have left the deserts and mountains to the Indians to be cleaned up later at their convenience just as we did.

[subdjoe]

Unfortunately South Carolina idiots were determined to force their will on everyone else, North and South, and they launched an unprovoked war. It was a precursor to Pearl Harbor and ended the same way. If the South had merely walked away and never  looked back all of this could have been avoided. They already had their victory, independence, but they wouldn't be satisfied.

Lincoln had a chance, several chances, to remove the federal troops from SC territory.  He made the decision to force the issue and sent troops, provisions, and war ships to reinforce the fort, basically starting the invasion of the South. 

[greenmtnboy]

  So the Union troops were suppose to leave a fort they had been occupying and controlled just because the south says so ?
  Im sure if you look into it you'll find most troops in any area they occupy are resupplied regularly and if fired upon would respond accordingly. Wouldnt you agree 

[reliquary]

When the States seceded, the US Army no longer had any right to be in any of them, and should have left when directed to do so by the State. 

[SHOOTALL]

First the South could not have won , the one time they invaded in the North it set the stage for defeat . The North had unlimited man power compared to the South not to mention industry . Also most of the war was on Southern real estate . The most decorated ship the South sent to war never saw the Southern Coast. To say they were streached thin is an understatement . The only way they could have won would have been the North tireing of the fighting like so many do today.

[greenmtnboy]

When the States seceded, the US Army no longer had any right to be in any of them, and should have left when directed to do so by the State.

  Apparently the south never got the response about seceding.

[BAGTIC]

Union troops were not in South Carolina after secession. Fort Sumter was not part of South Carolina any more than today Washington, D.C. is part of Maryland. SC had ceded sovereignty over the sites of the Union Forts to the USA years earlier prior to their construction. They were as much part of the USA as Pearl Harbor was part of the USA.  The USA had legal rights to resupply the forts by sea just as US ships today have legal rights to sail up the St. Lawrence seaway to the Great Lakes
After all these years it is apparent that the greatest product of the inglorious C.S.A. is the unimaginable amount of ignorance that it spawned. 150 years of balderdash and much of it is still mired in B.S.

[Oldshooter]

First the South could not have won , the one time they invaded in the North it set the stage for defeat . The North had unlimited man power compared to the South not to mention industry . Also most of the war was on Southern real estate . The most decorated ship the South sent to war never saw the Southern Coast. To say they were streached thin is an understatement . The only way they could have won would have been the North tireing of the fighting like so many do today.

They say timing is everything. Maybe we oughta try again now, cause getting tired of fighting is in vogue these days. 

[SHOOTALL]

   The real question should be what took them so long to win ?

[BAGTIC]

So some freed slaves took to thieving? How cheap can a perso be? They enslave a person, deny them freedom, the benefits of their labor, break up families, breed them for profit like livestock and sell them and their families at auction like livestock and then begrudge them a little sustenance. They should count their blessings that they did not have to pay reparations like the states do now for people falsely imprisoned.
What about the rest of us who are still plagued by the consequences of slavery. Look at the crime and violence in Detroit, Chicago, Watts,  etc. Who brought those people here? They might as well have stocked our waters with piranhas and seeded our fields with cobras. They have cursed an entire nation forever because of their Godless greed. Damn them all.

[AtlLaw]

What about the rest of us who are still plagued by the consequences of slavery. Look at the crime and violence in Detroit, Chicago, Watts,  etc. Who brought those people here? They might as well have stocked our waters with piranhas and seeded our fields with cobras. They have cursed an entire nation forever because of their Godless greed. Damn them all.

My goodness!      I can't wait to see the responses on this one!   

[Oldshooter]

rest of us who are still plagued by the consequences of slavery.

 
Yea! Amen brother! That would be every single one of Us, White, Black and and and................ President.