Author Topic: Why so few pistols in 22 mag? (Read 9906 times)

longwinters · « **on:** November 25, 2011, 05:05:58 AM »

I would think this would be a great self defense caliber especially for women.

Long

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2011, 05:36:46 AM »

NAA makes some of their little mini-revolvers and derringers in .22wmr. Or are you wondering about the auto loaders? I've wondered why the auto loader market in 22wmr is so slim, but I think it's because they fall in an area where the recoil is hard to place between a blowback and a locked action. Some factory ammo is lighter recoiling, others heavier. Just my guess.

mannyrock · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2011, 05:44:53 AM »

The sound of a .22 mag coming out of a revolver is absolutely ear shattering and deafening. Far far more than anyone would expect.

Why do you think it would be a great self-defense round, for anyone? A .22 Mag coming out of a 4 inch pistol barrel, is only equal to a regular .22 LR coming out of a rifle barrel. Add to this the fact that you have a fragile little 45 grain .22 bullet, and no, you don't have a great self-defense round.

A lowly .38 Special 158 grain wadcutter would be far preferable. Even a core-bon .380 round would be preferable. I have trained a lot of women to shoot, and I have never seen one have any problems whatsoever shooting a .38 special.

Just my experience.

Regards, Mannyrock

mannyrock · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2011, 05:52:11 AM »

Longwinters,

I apologize that the tone of my prior response was so rude. I have a bad case of the flu, and my reply just didn't come out right.

Again, my apologies.

Mannyrock

HAMMERHEAD · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2011, 06:03:03 AM »

I bought a 4" NAA revolver and it was the loudest handgun I've ever fired. It was cursed with a huge barrel/cylinder gap, which I'm sure made it worse.
The best .22WMR pistol I've shot was my 10" T/C Contender. Not loud at all and superbly accurate, I used it IHMSA Field Pistol with great success. The 50 grain Federal load was a real winner in the silhouette game.

There's an Automag II in WMR down at my local toy store, tempting, but I think I'll pass and put my money down on a Kadet .22lr conversion for my CZ75.

jim ritchie · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2011, 10:32:50 AM »

I have a High Standard built AMT Automag !!, and a Excel arms MP-22, in 22 WMRF.
But, I wouldn't consider either of them to be a self defense weapon!
Both are very large pistols for the caliber.
Yes, they are extremely loud, there are a couple of new rounds out now that are geared for the 22 mag pistol, with faster burning powder, which should help this, but I have not tried them.
Both also put out a huge muzzle blast in low light.
I put a Leupold VX-!!! scope on the Excel, now it is really a handful, but a real tack driver.
Here's a couple of pics.

High Standard AMT Automag

Excel Arms MP-22

longwinters · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2011, 12:06:29 PM »

Well now I know why. Thanks for the education.

And no problem MR. Never took it but good advice.

Long

chefjeff · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2011, 04:23:18 AM »

I really like the 22mag. Owned several over the years. I think it is a challenge for gunmakers to make a successful semi auto,due to cartridge and pressures.Lusting after a keltec PM30,prices slowly going down,they were bringing a premium due to supply.My fav to carry is a 651 4" smith,3T's. Better calibers for defense though. Knowledgable chap once told me the best pistol for defense was the one you are holding in your hand at the time.Have a semi rare H&R 603 6" that I use CCI cupped rat shot in for blackwater cottonmouths. Like another poster,my contender mag with 10" scoped bbl is very accurate.

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #8 on:** November 29, 2011, 05:05:01 PM »

Smith & Wesson makes a couple of slick little J frames designed as back up carry guns. The 351c comes with an XS sights and the 351 pd comes with a hiviz fiber optic sight. Both weigh about 11 oz. Of course you could choose a J frame 38 Special as well but the 22 Magnum is available.

pastorp · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2011, 05:28:26 AM »

I have a S&W 351PD in 22mag that I sometimes carry when I need a very light pocket pistol.

I've tried most of the 22mag pistols & revolvers over the years but I believe my favorite was a three screw single six with 22lr & 22mag cylenders. The one with the windage only adjustable rear sight. Pretty compact & accurate.

Regards,

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2011, 05:54:34 AM »

I agree with most of you but feel chef Jeff touched in real reasons.
Getting a long skinny RIMMED cartridge to feed in a semi auto is a tricky task. And once you have all the $$ invested what is the market? it's simply too small a market for most manufacturers. But the market is forever changing. New bullets are out there for defense with the 22 mag. It's a potent caliber that is NOT at all in line with its "paper" ballistics.

Sure Keltec is doing well but they did there home work and built a light weight, ultra hi cap, good shooting pistol. You got to deversify with something like this and that's what Keltec did.

I too have had and still have. 22 mag hand guns. In thinking its my second most chambered hand gun! Taking second only to the 45 Colt and a very second to my 1911's.

I too owned and wore out a 6" AMT. it w as all done when in pulled the entire rim off a casing. It was never the same afterwards. I settled for a single six 22M only. Then later a stainless single six. But I missed the auto. So I bought a 4" automag. But it constantly jambs and ever shot very well. Then I discovered a very clean S&W 651 and scooped it up! It's a favorite for sure. Along the way I also picked up a couple NAA revolvers. I like these too.

I have ordered a Keltec and passed on it. I went back and had my hands on a second one and passed again. It was exact same story in early '80s with the Glock. It took me a couple years to come around to the Glock. Now I live it and could. OT see myself with out one. It's been a nearly daily carry piece since I bought it and it's never far from my reach. My buddie has another order in for the Keltecs and says we buying them this time.

The 22 Mag as a main personal protection piece is a personal choice. For me the ONLY way I would do it would be in a revolver as its a rim fire and I will NOT stake my life Ina rimfire as a primary protection firearm. BUT the little NAAs make dandy deep cover back ups!

Mike A. · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2011, 01:37:12 PM »

I'm a big fan of the .22WRM; have three revolvers that handle it, two rifles and a Savage .22WRM/.410. I often pick my 4" S&W 651 when out hiking because it is very accurate and very compact. I would trust it for self defense against humans; ask any big city ER doctor what a .22 WRM hollow point does on a body hit at close range, the only range you will be using it.

NOT for bear defense, however--not on your life (or especially, MY life!)!

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2011, 05:42:47 PM »

I think it's a matter of supply and demand.

There is no demand thus there is no supply.

I had an 8-3/8" S&W M48 and it was nicely accurate but man the muzzle blast was the worst of any handgun I've ever owned. That was back in the days before I got smart enough to always use hearing protection. One good thing about it was a box of ammo sure lasted a long time. No way I could shoot many of those. Now with good hearing protection it would be a nice one to own and shoot but never ever mess up and fire it without hearing protection.

An after thought:

Thinking back on it I had one of the first Ruger SS Single Six convertibles they made. I can't recall barrel length I'd guess perhaps 5.5" to 7.5" but don't think it was 7.5". I don't remember it being so loud as the S&W M48. Maybe I had begun using hearing protection by then I don't remember.

I have one now with 9.5" barrel (Ruger SS Convertible) but I've never fired it without hearing protection so don't know how it compares to the M48. Ain't planning to find out either.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2011, 12:21:09 AM »

My uncle has a single six in 22WMR that he has had for years. It's a 7.5. He shoots snakes and occasionally squirrels with it while we're out running trait lines in OK. It has never seemed especially loud.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #14 on:** December 25, 2011, 11:42:05 AM »

Longwinters,

Just my thoughts on the subject, and clearly not everyone is in my camp on the subject.

I had a RUGER single six, my first handgun, bought about 1960 that had the interchangable cylinders.

I shot both the standard and the .22 mag ammo cause that is what I had.

However, probably about mid 60s I became a confirmed hand loader and started casting for the .357 that had replaced the single six.

This is where the .22mag REALLY lost about all of it's glammer/reason for being for me. I could reload and shoot a .38 load, using my own boolits, and a few grains of Bullseye for an extremely small outlay in $$$$$$$.

The .22 mag just became a ho hum cartridge that some folk bought but I didn't really understand why. Same goes, FOR ME, with the current crop of rimfire .17s.

OK, I know times have changed, but cost of those rounds is still a major issue for me, when balanced, with the abilities of almost any .22 or .17 centerfire round.

I use and enjoy a couple of .22s in the form of Mark II RUGERS, and a Clark Custom 77/22 for what they are, fun and very good shooting firearms and providing I'm not feeding them match/target ammo, reasonably inexpensive to shoot.

But for handgun shooting beyond that and for not a lot more, yes, I still make my own boolits, I can get a cartridge able to really get the job done if called on to do so. For rifle shooting, if my goal is to turn tiny ground critters onto a pink mist, well my 243 with a 55gr Nosler Balistic tip has it all over any rimfire, not even to mention the good sized list of great .22 centerfires.

So, all that to say this, the .22mag. has, FOR ME, always come down to a much to do about noth'in as well as being pricey for what I got.

No intention of casting stones at anyone who may use and enjoy the .22 mag or the .17 rimfires, but the above pretty much sums up the reason I don't lay out money in those directions.

Keep em coming!

Crusty deary Ol'Coot

RIF · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2011, 03:09:32 PM »

Grendel made one that held 30 rounds IIRC.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:46:33 AM »

The .22 WMR is a great small game and varmint round in a good handgun, love my 6" AMT but I guess from what I hear I just am lucky to have a good one. As a defensive pistol it really looses a lot when fired from a short barreled revolver. I chronographed a few rounds from a friend's little inch and a half mini revolver and the .40 grain bullet was down around 950 fps as best I recall. My AMT gets over 1400 fps from 40 grain bullets and some brands of 30 grain bullets go over 1700 fps. But that's the benefit of a 6" barrel with no cylinder gap.

Flynmoose · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:17:14 PM »

I like a little variety in my firearms. I look at my small pile of guns as a hobby, for fun. I have several 22 WMRs, a S&W 650, Savage Striker, Stevens Favorite and a Savage model 93 with a bull barrel. I did have a S&W model 48, couldn't hit anything with iron sights. The great thing about our country is that we can pick and choose our own favorites.
FM

tacklebury · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2012, 03:34:07 PM »

Quote from: RIF on December 27, 2011, 03:09:32 PM

Grendel made one that held 30 rounds IIRC.

Keltec's PMR-30 holds 30 now.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=PMR-30&mfg=Kel-Tec&mdl=All&cat=All&type=All&cal=22M

Gray Paw · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2012, 06:15:47 PM »

.22 Mag is a good match for the NAA minis and offers a jump in power and reliability over .22lr in these guns. Recoil is very mild but the .22 Mag from close quarters can be quite lethal. The flash and bang are impressive; that can be an advantage. Could also be a disadvantage if it temporarily blinds or deafens you.

I would like to see the SP-101 in .22 Mag. And S&W needs to make the 651 again. The alloy J-frame 351C and 351PD are nice, but with reportedly heavy triggers.

A steel-framed .22 mag revolver with a 3" or longer barrel and 8-shot cylinder would make a nice kit gun. Might also make a good nightstand gun or carry weapon for the recoil-sensitive.

Rutin2tin · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2012, 03:33:46 AM »

Yep, not a great amount of shooter interest in the 22 WMRF cartridge in a handgun.

I have a full target model 48-2 with 8-3/8" barrel, plus a model 651-1 with 4" bbl, and both of those revolvers rate significantly as a varmint gun.
I used to carry the 651 while trout fishing, along the brushy, back country streams in SW New York State, where coyotes are very plentiful, and frequently rabid.
The model 48 is a more recent acquisition, as I wanted to own a few long-barreled Smiths for range shooting.
Even in a handgun as small as a J-frame with 4" barrel, the 22WMRF cartridge has superior ballistics and range, as compared to a similar 22LR handgun.
Foxes, Coyotes, Woodchuck, Raccoon, and other small game are easily killed with a single shot from the 22 WMRF handgun, if range is reasonable, and the shooter does his part efficiently.
Using CCI's 22WMR + V HP 30 grain bullet loading, enhances the killing power of that cartridge to the point where 1 shot kills are almost a certainty.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:02:16 AM »

I was just shooting some of these +V's last weekend and was suprised at the accuracy from my ~~783~~ 782 Marlin. Did not expect it from a hyper Vel Round.. Right under 1" at 100 yards.

CW

uno676 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »

I really like my little heritage arms single six convertible nice gun for under 200.00 out the door. Also accurate.

Sent by passenger pigeon using Tapatalk

Brett · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2012, 03:47:54 AM »

.22 Mag. revolvers are fairly easy to find... semi-auto pistols are another story. I think the main reason for this is that it is not easy to design/manufacture a magazine/feeding system that works reliably with the long thin rimmed cases. Kel-Tec has seemed to have figured it out.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2012, 05:02:43 AM »

I love the .22 Magnum round in a rilfe, but in a handgun, it's too loud an too weak. More than a .22 LR in a handgun, but not much. In a rifle, it has 3 times the energy of a regular LR. That said, I have a NAA .22 Magnum in my pocket as I type.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 17, 2012, 12:52:37 PM »

My pre-warning Ruger SSS with the maggie cyl. shoots Win. Dynapoints (flash plated 45gr. lead HP) into nice, tight little groups at 50yds. Not horribly loud, definitely less than the typical mag rounds, lots more thwack than 22LR HV and I would use it against 2 or 4 legged varmints if required because ya gotta dance with who ya brung and gun control means hitting your target.
25 yrs ago a friend let me borrow his AMT Automag for an extended trials; it was a bit ammo fussy, and huge, accuracy was so-so (I shot NRA Bullseye comp. back then, so it wasnt on a par with my H.S. or S&W 22LR autos). I wasnt aware that High Standard made a version of it, thought it was exclusively AMT (Arcadia Machine and Tool. IIRC).

keith44 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2012, 04:42:06 AM »

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on July 16, 2012, 05:02:43 AM

I love the .22 Magnum round in a rilfe, but in a handgun, it's too loud an too weak. More than a .22 LR in a handgun, but not much. In a rifle, it has 3 times the energy of a regular LR. That said, I have a NAA .22 Magnum in my pocket as I type.

waiting for mine to be delivered, ordered one with both cylinders. NAA pistols fill a niche for the deep concealment pocket pistols

cwlongshot · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2012, 05:03:34 AM »

Quote from: keith44 on July 26, 2012, 04:42:06 AM

Quote from: Mike in Virginia on July 16, 2012, 05:02:43 AM
I love the .22 Magnum round in a rilfe, but in a handgun, it's too loud an too weak. More than a .22 LR in a handgun, but not much. In a rifle, it has 3 times the energy of a regular LR. That said, I have a NAA .22 Magnum in my pocket as I type.

waiting for mine to be delivered, ordered one with both cylinders. NAA pistols fill a niche for the deep concealment pocket pistols

I call'em pocket rockets!

I got my replacement springs free of charge!! NAA customer service ROCKS!!

CW

gcrank1 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2012, 05:05:26 AM »

The Aguila SSS 60gr. 22LR will drive deep and is my choice for a defense load in a LR chambered handgun. It is not a long distance round as it loses stability past about 35yds in my typical 1:16 twist rifles, but up close and personal I have more faith in it than any hyper-velo LR round.

Raptor · « **Reply #29 on:** July 29, 2012, 09:22:53 PM »

I own a Taurus 992 in the .22 Mag and just love it, lots of differate ammo you can purchase in this round.
I even use the bird shot in it for snake shooting....