Author Topic: S-1867; U.S. being declared a "Battlefield" -Military can arrest and Lock Up ANY  (Read 1414 times)

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TM7

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and lockup ANY citizen.......Making the Patriot Act look like kids play to declare America part of the Global BATTLEFIELD...You best look into this,,,if it will float. Best determine if your Congress critters supported S-1897, and if they did GET RID OF THEM...consider yourself warned.....TM7
 
.http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot
 Friday, November 25, 2011
    U.S. being declared a "Battlefield" -Military can arrest and Lock Up ANY U.S. citizen
 - We are about to become Nazi U.S.A. - Seriously! Bill Going to vote on floor Monday (11/28/11)     

 This is it!  This would take away any last freedoms we think we may have.

A Bill that allows the military to become the police and declares the U.S.  as a battlefield, then the military can take and detain any U.S. citizen in the battlefield!    They never have to charge you with anything nor give you a trial with this bill!  In other words, if they don't like what you say or do, you can be picked up and held for the rest of your life without ever be given a reason nor trial!

If you enjoy what little freedoms we have left... then you need to let your elected official (not that they listen to the people) to vote NO on this bill!

It is coming up for vote on Monday or Tuesday - Carl Levin (D) and John McCain (R) created a bill behind closed doors that proclaims even the U.S. as a battlefield and U.S. citizens can be proclaimed enemy combatants!

This is so serious!  This makes the military the Police and allows the military to come to your front door and arrest and lock you up!  Remember the patriot act allows the U.S. to take people and never say they have them.

This would even go farther, it will be the military not the FBI, CIA etc to take U.S. citizens.  It could be the military that could start shooting at us, since we would be in a battlefield!

Is it because the government doesn't trust the police to stop the Occupy Wall Street folks?  Is it because they know the police may even join the OWS movement at some point?

The ACLU is telling everyone to contact they elected official and tell them to vote NO!

This is so outrageous!

We will be Egypt/Syria/Libya if this goes through!  The military will be our police!

Lindsay Graham and Kelley Ayotte both (R) support the bill - they feel the U.S. is a battlefield now.

From link:

 
 
The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.


The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president —
the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world.

The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.


The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.

In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
 

 Senators Demand the Military Lock Up American Citizens in a “Battlefield” They Define as Being

Right Outside Your Window    While nearly all Americans head to family and friends to celebrate Thanksgiving, the Senate is gearing up for a vote on Monday or Tuesday that goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans. The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.
Senators need to hear from you, on whether you think your front yard is part of a “battlefield” and if any president can send the military anywhere in the world to imprison civilians without charge or trial.
The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night’s Republican debate. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.
The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.
I know it sounds incredible. New powers to use the military worldwide, even within the United States? Hasn’t anyone told the Senate that Osama bin Laden is dead, that the president is pulling all of the combat troops out of Iraq and trying to figure out how to get combat troops out of Afghanistan too? And American citizens and people picked up on American or Canadian or British streets being sent to military prisons indefinitely without even being charged with a crime. Really? Does anyone think this is a good idea? And why now?
The answer on why now is nothing more than election season politics. The White House, the Secretary of Defense, and the Attorney General have all said that the indefinite detention provisions in the National Defense Authorization Act are harmful and counterproductive. The White House has even threatened a veto. But Senate politics has propelled this bad legislation to the Senate floor.
But there is a way to stop this dangerous legislation. Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) is offering the Udall Amendment that will delete the harmful provisions and replace them with a requirement for an orderly Congressional review of detention power. The Udall Amendment will make sure that the bill matches up with American values.
In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) explained that the bill will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.” Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) also declared that the bill is needed because “America is part of the battlefield.”
The solution is the Udall Amendment; a way for the Senate to say no to indefinite detention without charge or trial anywhere in the world where any president decides to use the military. Instead of simply going along with a bill that was drafted in secret and is being jammed through the Senate, the Udall Amendment deletes the provisions and sets up an orderly review of detention power. It tries to take the politics out and put American values back in.
In response to proponents of the indefinite detention legislation who contend that the bill “applies to American citizens and designates the world as the battlefield,” and that the “heart of the issue is whether or not the United States is part of the battlefield,” Sen. Udall disagrees, and says that we can win this fight without worldwide war and worldwide indefinite detention.
The senators pushing the indefinite detention proposal have made their goals very clear that they want an okay for a worldwide military battlefield, that even extends to your hometown. That is an extreme position that will forever change our country.
Now is the time to stop this bad idea. Please urge your senators to vote YES on the Udall Amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act.
 
ACLU release...

Offline JustaShooter

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Have you read the bill?  Here's a link, in case you need it: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867pcs/pdf/BILLS-112s1867pcs.pdf all 682 pages of it...

I haven't read it, bit I did carefully read the table of contents (19 pages!) and didn't see anything that would do what is claimed in those articles. I  also searched the text of the bill and the word battlefield does not appear anywhere in the bill.

Surely, if this was in the bill, there would be a citation, some reference to the part of the bill that "declares the US as a battlefield".  Are you able to provide that?   Or another word or phrase that appears somewhere in the bill that would "declare the US as a battlefield"?

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Offline ironglow

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  Yes, Of course our "American exceptionalism" does require that we do not have regular Army troops policing civilian affairs.  However, as JaS pointed out, I see nothing in the table of contents that even hints at such a threat, it looks more like a regular military provision bill.  If you would simply reprint some of the articles involved (in context of course) we could better appraise the statements found in your reprinted article.
    A couple things which give pause..
  a)   The article seems to accuse Republicans, yet such a move would greatly empower and enlarge an already bloated central government.  An all-powerful and overbearing central government is anathema to Republican values.  Such a trick to enlarge govt, sounds more leftist than right leaning.
 
  b)  Such a story could be planted by a radical Islamist group hoping to halt any provisions which may lead to easier detection of potential terrorist plots..
       Incidently; the link for the blogspot the piece was apparently found at...wouldn't pull up..
 
  How about specific, in context, provisions of the bill ?
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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TM;
  Your "linker" still isn't working..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline TNBilly

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perhaps it'd be good to read the real document rather than relying on something like the A-C-L-U to tell ya what it says.  section 1032, which is the implementation of section 1031 btw states in subsections "b - 1&2" the arrest and detainment abilities do not apply to either US Citizens or legal residents.
America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.”        Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline -Shaggy-

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Get ready for what? Military detention as described in this bill clearly doesn't apply to US citizens.

Offline Gary G

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The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

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Offline teamnelson

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What this is essentially saying is that the military is required to detain enemies apprehended within US Borders that are not US Citizens.
They are not required to do so for US Citizens, but they are not prohibited from doing so, and may in fact do so if ordered.
This functionally enables the US Military to wage war within our borders, and if ordered to do so under a congressional waiver, can do so against US Citizens. (Whether they will or not is subject to wild speculation.)


This is very significant, and is seeking to solve a legal problem with the GWOT. Outside the borders, its fairly straightforward - Military has the ball for detainees, and they do not fall under what we would consider normal legal proceedings. Inside, its supposed to be NSC/IC CT agencies in partnership with DOJ/LEO, but that's not working well, so they want to centralize. This also solves some budget questions, as it sets the stage for consolidation of competing activity under a central military control at a time when the military is being looked at for significant budget cuts.


This is very bad. It gives the military a homeland security mission and effectively removes the posse comitatus restraint. Furthermore, should we continue down the path of kowtowing to the UN International Court, US military operations within our borders would fall under UN oversight, and we could very well see multinational coalitions for counter terrorism operating within the US, against citizens ... just as we are presently doing all around the world, with UN and Human Rights watchdogs on the scene.


Very bad. The only checks against abuse would be congress during the waiver process ... but none of them have the courage to say no if it could be painted that their failure to concur could place people in harms way ... and the character of our military leadership to say no to an unconstitutional order. The latter is waning, I admit, but the solution is not to start painting the military as the enemy, but to promote positive moral leadership in our military by encouraging us when we do the right things, not just send us bears and cookies.


Ill hop off the stump and let someone else have it. Thanks.
held fast

Offline -Shaggy-

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WOW!! If all that could happen, it's a good thing military detention doesn't apply to US citizens.

Offline teamnelson

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WOW!! If all that could happen, it's a good thing military detention doesn't apply to US citizens.


If this passes, it very well could. That's the point of the thread.
held fast

Offline -Shaggy-

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WOW!! If all that could happen, it's a good thing military detention doesn't apply to US citizens.


If this passes, it very well could. That's the point of the thread.

 
The way it is written now, it doesn't. Worry over what it could be changed to later is the point of the thread.

Offline ironglow

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  The links TM provided didn't work for me, but after hearing judge Napolitano comment on it this morning..It looks bad to me also..  We should hope it gets shot down.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline SHOOTALL

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there have been many cases of this before , maybe probing to see the reaction ? Waco , Ruby Ridge , The hurricanes in FL and LA where rights were trampled on. Retired troops from WW1 were fired on when they marched on Washington because their pension was not paid.
This is why we have a Consitution and we must protect it and USE it to protect ourselves .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Lost Farmboy

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http://www.infowars.com/rand-paul-aims-to-kill-indefinite-detention-provision-of-controversial-bill/
 
 
The American people have one senator, the corporations looting the country have forty nine and a VP. He needs our help. If you care about freedom in America, ask your elected senators to support the Rand Paul amendment.


In 2009 a few hundred thousand of us were able to get the provision outlawing vitamins and food supplements out of the food safety bill. In the end because of a technicality between the senate and the house the bill could have been killed with one vote. Not one senator was willing to stand up for food freedom. The FDA is now trying to implement the outlawing of food supplements though regulation. Just like the EPA is trying to impose carbon taxes, after the failure to pass cap and trade.


Those of you that take comfort in the fact that this bill cannot be used against American citizens should remember Anwar Al-Awlaki. He, an American citizen, knew he could not be executed without a trial. This sets a precedent. Any one of us could be declared a terrorist and detained without trial. The evidence would be sealed as a matter of national security. This bill only makes it easier.


What we need to do is hold the congress we have accountable. Most Americans have no idea what they are doing to us. There is a reason Ron Paul has no corporate or media support. He stands for freedom!!!
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Offline powderman

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Quote
Those of you that take comfort in the fact that this bill cannot be used against American citizens should remember Anwar Al-Awlaki. He, an American citizen, knew he could not be executed without a trial. This sets a precedent. Any one of us could be declared a terrorist and detained without trial.

 
Yes I remember that and especially with imam obama in charge it is even more dangerous. In awlikis case it was a good shoot. He was no American, he was a muslim. Citizen maybe, American, NOPE. I do agree that this is a dangerous bill. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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Offline ironglow

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  I have never doubted that there would be a percentage who would "follow orders" explicitly. 
    Our founding fathers realized this also, which explains why they sponsored and passed our 2nd amendment !
 
  We have recent events such as Waco and Ruby Ridge, which only serve to prove the point.  Right now, there are hearings going on with the ATF agents 'front & center".  It seems the agents who blew the warning whistles are havcing a very difficult time within the organization...while th eperpetrators of the scheme are being treated well, even promoted ..since the murder of a couple agents, accomplished with guns furnished to the cartels by the ATF.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Pat/Rick

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Remember what happened in N.O. during katrina? Military force.
 
Did GW sow these seeds? At least get them ready to sprout? I think so, again katrina as an example.
 
Wasn't military material used at Waco?
 
Phrase of study for the day, "Continuity of Government". (Hint: whatever it takes to ensure).
 
Good luck America.
 

Offline nw_hunter

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Remember what happened in N.O. during katrina? Military force.
 
Did GW sow these seeds? At least get them ready to sprout? I think so, again katrina as an example.
 
Wasn't military material used at Waco?
 
Phrase of study for the day, "Continuity of Government". (Hint: whatever it takes to ensure).
 
Good luck America.

This S-1867 is just another tool the D.H.S. can and will use against U.S. citizens in the future.
 We already have enough laws in place to cover every criminal act man can think of. Why do we need more?

We must get rid of these Global politicians before a good change can take place.This next general election would be a great time to start. We have  that opportunity with Paul on the ticket.At least with him in, we wouldn't have to worry about the office being abused. He has proven himself a defender of the Constitution many times. (On this I think we can all agree)


We have to impose term limits on these Global zombies in the House and Senate! They won't do it themselves!
Simple to do, but we must do it in the Primaries. Quit re-electing them.If you have to vote party lines, then at least vote a nobody in.Give them one term period. This is the only way to get people elected to office that think of their country, and not themselves first. Even if we get a bad one once in a while, he or she won't be around long enough to do much harm.

We the people are the real problem here. We keep electing these J. McCain's, Barney Frank's,Newt G's,B. Obama's and G. Romney's to office.You only need to stick your hand in the fire once to know it burns, but we let these criminals in DC burn us over and over.

I've pretty much made up my mind to never vote to re-elect anyone to the same office.
If they are worth their salt, let them run for a higher office. If they can't make it, then they probably didn't deserve it anyway."JMHOP" :) . Oh yea! one other, and then I'll quit.......We need to break this party line mentality!
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline SwampThing762

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Evidently the bill was struck down on a floor vote 67-30.  See link below

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/1/211

I suggest we all contact our Senators, especially those up for re-election, and let them know we will show how they voted yes for a piece of legislation that would terminate American civil liberties. 

ST762
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Offline Pat/Rick

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So, FEMA tells us to prepare for disasters by storing food and water, Congress conspires to create us as being terrorists if we do.
 
Our second amendment and the militia act grants us the power to have firearms, but if we have "too many", Congress conspires to claim we are terrorists if we do.
 
Mormons commonly have a full years supply of food stocked, are they terrorists?
 
Having been subject to weeks of recuperation following surgery, I have made the decision to have a couple months food in my house to alleviate any hardships should a repeat injury happen. Now, my resposible lifestyle is an act of terrorism?
 
Paving the way for ARMED UN  TROOPS to come into this nation and enforce unConstitutional mandates (being planned for with force obviously) goes against the oath of E-V-E-R-Y person who has ever sworn the oath of enlistment.
 
Every gun collector is being eyed as a terrorist.
 
Patrick Henry said it best, "give me liberty, or give me death".

Offline SwampThing762

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Any liberals here want to reconsider their devotion to the Ocrapper regime?

On a side note, there are evidently even Amish terrorists now..........

http://www.blogscanada.ca/2011/11/23/amish-terrorists-on-hair-cutting-spree1/
We learned the true nature of Islam on 11 Sept 2001.

Show your appreciation for Islam....eat more bacon.

"Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam." (Not to us Lord, not us, but to your name give the glory)  -- Knights Templar motto

Offline Pat/Rick

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Remember what happened in N.O. during katrina? Military force.
 
Did GW sow these seeds? At least get them ready to sprout? I think so, again katrina as an example.
 
Wasn't military material used at Waco?
 
Phrase of study for the day, "Continuity of Government". (Hint: whatever it takes to ensure).
 
Good luck America.

This S-1867 is just another tool the D.H.S. can and will use against U.S. citizens in the future.
 We already have enough laws in place to cover every criminal act man can think of. Why do we need more?

We must get rid of these Global politicians before a good change can take place.This next general election would be a great time to start. We have  that opportunity with Paul on the ticket.At least with him in, we wouldn't have to worry about the office being abused. He has proven himself a defender of the Constitution many times. (On this I think we can all agree)


We have to impose term limits on these Global zombies in the House and Senate! They won't do it themselves!
Simple to do, but we must do it in the Primaries. Quit re-electing them.If you have to vote party lines, then at least vote a nobody in.Give them one term period. This is the only way to get people elected to office that think of their country, and not themselves first. Even if we get a bad one once in a while, he or she won't be around long enough to do much harm.

We the people are the real problem here. We keep electing these J. McCain's, Barney Frank's,Newt G's,B. Obama's and G. Romney's to office.You only need to stick your hand in the fire once to know it burns, but we let these criminals in DC burn us over and over.

I've pretty much made up my mind to never vote to re-elect anyone to the same office.
If they are worth their salt, let them run for a higher office. If they can't make it, then they probably didn't deserve it anyway."JMHOP" :) . Oh yea! one other, and then I'll quit.......We need to break this party line mentality!

NW, Yep I agree +1.

Offline blind ear

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Will all the drug tunnel diggers be considered "terrorist" because they didn't "call before they dug" ?
 >:(    :(    ???    :o    :-[    :-\
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