Ignored .311" Caliber: 7.65x53mm

[lgm270]

Reflecting on the .311 caliber cartridges, it struck me that the best one is actually the least popular.  These cartridges are the 7.62x39mm (i.e. .30 Russian), .303 British, 7.7 Jap, 7.62x54mm.   adn the 7.65x53 Argintine.

I think the Argentine is the best. It's a rimless case based on a shortened 30.06 and  7.65 brass is readily obtained from re-formed .30-06's.  The 7.65 Argentine is right between the .308 Win and the .30-06.  It's kind of an enhanced .308 Win. 

Yet,  the 7.65 Argentine is  the least popular.  Kind of an orphan.  Obviously the reason is the lack of cheap, 7.65 Arg.  mil-surp rifles that propelled the popularity of the other .311" caliber rounds.  If you research the 7.65 Arg, it was very widely deployed, being also known as the 7.65 Belgian Mauser and was used by Belgium, Spain,  Turkey, Eduador, Peru Columbia , Paraguay, Bolivia, Argentina and probably other countries.  It was also a chambering of the famous BAR and other full autos.  Now it's almost totally gone.  This is really too bad at one level, but perfectly understandable at another  level I guess.   I guess the last thing the ammo companies need is another chambering in an already too crowded field.   

Too bad this orphan had to die while the others are flourishing.

[Frank46]

When norma some years back loaded the 7.65 the muzzle velocity was 2900 fps with a 150 grain bullet. Nowadays its some what slower. But there ain't no flies on the argie. the 1891's are beautiful examples of how it was done way back when. My first big bore was an 1891 mauser. Have two that are sporters and a couple I bought for spare parts. Barrels are toast. But the rest are nice. Frank

[mauser98us]

Had a 1909,a1891 carbine and the standard rifle. I agree,it's one of my favorite rounds.Also it suffers from lack of commercial rifles being made. A few Winchesters and Remingtons were made,but try to find one. One of these days, I'm gonna build a 98 around this caliber.If you find any mil-surp,it's usualy by FMAAP, the Argie ammo plant. Most of this stuff hang-fires if at all.

[Mikey]

The .311 bores are great performers.  The 303 Brit used to outshoot the 30-06 at the Wimbleton matches until someone developed the 190 gn match bullet for the 06; and the 7.62x54R is/was known for both its accuracy and power and with the right, or rather proper loadings, both rounds out powered the 308 and usually ran at least halfway in power between the 308 and the 30-06.
 
The Argentine round is not so much a orphan as it is just possibly the lesser known of the .311s - I'm not sure which came first, the Russian round made by Westinghouse or the Argentine round.  The Brit may be of the same vintage, but the 7.7 Japanese is definately the late-comer.  I believe the 98s may have been chambered in the Argentine round and with the .473 case head size of all Mauser rounds and the 30-06 family you should not have any problems finding a nice 98 to convert or rebarrel. 
 
You can also use, I believe, lighter weight/shorter actions made for the 308 round (Remchesters and Win-ingtons) - you are only 2mm longer with the Argentine and should not have feeding problems in the 51mm length actions. If I was going to go the route you are thinking I would contact the Montana Rifleman as I believe they offer the 7.65x53 chambering in their barrels..  I have thought of going back to them with one of my SMLE#4s for a nice tight 303 British chamber and .311 bore and never worry about stretching brass in the more than generous 303 British chambers or having to use 312 or larger cast bullets for accuracy.  jmtcw and HTH. 

[SHOOTALL]

 
I have to ask  as it has been stated that the power is between the 308 win and the 30-06 . Can anyone tell the difference ? I have killed deer with the 308 and 3006 and really can't tell the difference in power bullet weight being equal.

[lgm270]

I have to ask  as it has been stated that the power is between the 308 win and the 30-06 . Can anyone tell the difference ? I have killed deer with the 308 and 3006 and really can't tell the difference in power bullet weight being equal.

A great point.  There probably is no practical difference.       

[SHOOTALL]

But of course we can't let that stand in the way of another rifle !

[Reverend Recoil]

An elegant, light weight double rifle in 7.62x54mm would be nice on a wild hog hunt. 

[Brithunter]

Reflecting on the .311 caliber cartridges, it struck me that the best one is actually the least popular.  These cartridges are the 7.62x39mm (i.e. .30 Russian), .303 British, 7.7 Jap, 7.62x54mm.   adn the 7.65x53 Argintine.

I think the Argentine is the best. It's a rimless case based on a shortened 30.06 and  7.65 brass is readily obtained from re-formed .30-06's.  The 7.65 Argentine is right between the .308 Win and the .30-06.  It's kind of an enhanced .308 Win. 

Yet,  the 7.65 Argentine is  the least popular.  Kind of an orphan.  Obviously the reason is the lack of cheap, 7.65 Arg.  mil-surp rifles that propelled the popularity of the other .311" caliber rounds.  If you research the 7.65 Arg, it was very widely deployed, being also known as the 7.65 Belgian Mauser and was used by Belgium, Spain,  Turkey, Eduador, Peru Columbia , Paraguay, Bolivia, Argentina and probably other countries.  It was also a chambering of the famous BAR and other full autos.  Now it's almost totally gone.  This is really too bad at one level, but perfectly understandable at another  level I guess.   I guess the last thing the ammo companies need is another chambering in an already too crowded field.   

Too bad this orphan had to die while the others are flourishing.

Ahhhh just a small point as the 7.65x53 came along before 1906 I believe the case is actually a shortened 57mm Mauser case on which the 30-03 and later 30-06 was sort of based. Enough so the US paid Mauser royalties for the design.


One more point folks ........................... the 303 British dates from 1888 in it's black powder loading so predates the others. It went nitro in 1892.

[mauser98us]

Actually,Mauser sued the Gov't of the US for royalties and won. C'mon Brit, you can't expect us to give credit to somebody else do ya?

[Harry Snippe]

Igm 270
 
I would think if more 7.62x53 rifles or barrels were on the market there would be a market for them .
 
No one really heard of the 9.3x57 years back , but the rifles now can be bought and folks are trying them out .

[kombi1976]

In many ways the 7.65 is the round the British should've made. Rimless, identical ballistics, better case angles, stronger. But the SMLE was hardier rifle. It's a little known fact that there was also a 7x53 round & some of these rifles were used in the Boer Wars but ammo was harder to get. Let's say that the 7.65 was not ignored but instead did not survive because major powers chose other rounds.