LEOs who express dissent re: drug laws get FIRED

[Dee]

Websters Collegiate Dictionary

FIEND: a person excessively devoted to a pursuit, or study : a person who uses IMMODERATE QUANTITIES OF SOMETHING: ADDICT {A DOPE FIEND}

[m-g Willy]

The REAL AND ACTUAL CAUSE IS THE MILLIONS OF AMERICAN DOPE FIENDS PROVIDING THE MARKET DEMAND.

Fiends''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 Simple answer.. DUH!! "tobacco fiends" and "beer fiends" are NOT supporting the murderous cartels..
   .
 
   NOT TOO DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT !!!

Nope no murderous cartels when it comes to booze.
Maybe because it is legal.....now!
Seems like there was a guy by the name of Capone that made some big money when booze was illegal. And he didn't mind murdering anyone that got in his way.

[Dee]

The REAL AND ACTUAL CAUSE IS THE MILLIONS OF AMERICAN DOPE FIENDS PROVIDING THE MARKET DEMAND.

Fiends''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 Simple answer.. DUH!! "tobacco fiends" and "beer fiends" are NOT supporting the murderous cartels..
   .
 
   NOT TOO DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT !!!

Nope no murderous cartels when it comes to booze.
Maybe because it is legal.....now!
Seems like there was a guy by the name of Capone that made some big money when booze was illegal. And he didn't mind murdering anyone that got in his way.

And once again, without customers, Capone and Joe Kennedy would have never been heard of.

[m-g Willy]

   .
 
   
And once again, without customers, Capone and Joe Kennedy would have never been heard of.

 
Very true.
But we had people drinking before durning and after proabition.
The same as the drug users today.
I don't think you are ever going to do away with the drug users any more than proabition did away with the drinkers.
 
 

[ironglow]

  Again we are faced with the inane conclusion..
   
    If Jimmie led the muddy dog into the parlor..then it must be OK if I do it also !
       
           Wrong conclusion; just because Jimmie screws up..doesn't mean it is an acceptable move to make.

[Dee]

   .
 
   
And once again, without customers, Capone and Joe Kennedy would have never been heard of.

 
Very true.
But we had people drinking before durning and after proabition.
The same as the drug users today.
I don't think you are ever going to do away with the drug users any more than proabition did away with the drinkers.

Couldn't agree with you more, but let's not blame Mexico for what we're doin. Mexico is payin a hell of a price too, and most Mexicans don't like the cartels either, but Mexicans in Mexico know more about the "harsh reality of life" than most Americans, and their payin worse than we are, for OUR DOPE FIENDS.

[yellowtail3]

End the war on drugs - it's a jobs programs for cops, lawyers, prisons, and various other leeches. End it. It's ain't the gubmint's business what a free man chooses to read, or eat, or drink. Or smoke.

[powderman]

Did he fail to perform because of his opinion?If not, then he did no wrong!

 
Hunter. We don't know. Knowing his personal views concerning these invaders and the drug runners I'd be wondering how many times he simply looked the other way or maybe even helped them. POWDERMAN. 

[Casull]

Hunter. We don't know. Knowing his personal views concerning these invaders and the drug runners I'd be wondering how many times he simply looked the other way or maybe even helped them. POWDERMAN.

 
 
 
Exactly.  If he has no respect for the laws, how can he be expected to enforce them?

[Dee]

So powderman. If he has a difference of opinion than you, but is actually stickin his neck out, while your doing nothing, he's dishonest because of his opinion. When he put the college time in, when he PASSED THE BACK GROUND CHECK, and then the academy time, and then put the badge on, got into the marked car, and drove to the Border, he became a target. You have done NONE of the above, but sadly he's even a target for folks like you. He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.
In this day and time, I truly don't know why anyone would want a badge anymore. The government won't back them, and the citizens won't back them. Everyone is an "arm chair quarterback". Everyone wants the border cleaned up, but does nothing themselves to clean it up, and condemns the ones that are actually trying to clean it up. The only thing you've said that is actually factual is: We don't know.

[Casull]

You have done NONE of the above, but sadly he's even a target for folks like you.

Dee, he wasn't fired by Powderman, or me for that matter.  He was fired by his boss(es).  You know, others in the Border Patrol.  I'm still trying to figure out why a guy that is sympathetic to illegal aliens wanted a job as a Border Patrol agent.  It certainly makes me wonder.

[Casull]

Sorry for the giant type.  Apparently it was caused from quoting Dee.

[m-g Willy]

What it all boils down to is this LEO got the boot for stating his opinion.
No evidence that he didn't do his job.
No evidence of any wrong doing on his part.
How many people on this board would still be in favor of him getting the boot if he was talking about "EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY A GUN"?
Even though his department might have the liberal policy of the policemans union that backs obama's stance on citizens rights?
Remember who backed obama,, it might not have been the cop on the street, but their union is all for obama!
Would it have been ok for him to get the boot then?
Who knows,,, he "might" turn his head when someone is carrying without a permit!!!!!
 
 
 

[Dee]

You have done NONE of the above, but sadly he's even a target for folks like you.

Dee, he wasn't fired by Powderman, or me for that matter.  He was fired by his boss(es).  You know, others in the Border Patrol.  I'm still trying to figure out why a guy that is sympathetic to illegal aliens wanted a job as a Border Patrol agent.  It certainly makes me wonder.

Why is it guys like yourself jump on the "fire the bum" band wagon, when you hear one side of a police firing, INSTAGATED BY THE JUSTICE DEPT., but say nothing when one goes to jail for busting a drug smuggler. Seems to me, that you guys just want to attend a Border Agent Lynching, when you constantly talk about how LIBERAL the White House is. Eric Holder and the Justice Dept APPPOINTED BY OBAMA, is the main force behind jailing our Border Agents, and prosecuting them.
You don't trust Obama, you don't trust Eric Holder, and you don't trust the Justice Dept. with YOUR RIGHTS, but hey, they must know what their talkin about on this Agent. And then you guys start back to hollerin: SHUT THE BORDERS DOWN! Good Grief what a mixed set of standards. You don't want Obama, Eric Holder, and the Justice Dept. steppin on your rights, and you think they should be done away with, but you have no problem with them JUMPIN ON BORDER AGENTS for opinions and actions.
The double standard attitude of it's ok for them to go after the Agents, but not after me, needs no explanation. It's as clear as a church bell.

[ironglow]

  Of course, we are operating on just one news article, so we do not have the complete picture.  Some things can be assumed however, one being that in a military style law enforcement there are likely to be military style rules and regulations.  Our state police for example, until about 20 years ago, lived in barracks, whether married or not.  The dress act and perform as uniformly as people normally can.  Obviously, certain rules of conduct and conversation are expected.
   The article itself says;
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
      " PHOENIX — Border Patrol agents pursue smugglers one moment and sit around in boredom the next. It was during one of the lulls that Bryan Gonzalez, a young agent, made some comments to a colleague that cost him his career.

Stationed in Deming, N.M., Mr. Gonzalez was in his green-and-white Border Patrol vehicle just a few feet from the international boundary when he pulled up next to a fellow agent to chat about the frustrations of the job. If marijuana were legalized, Mr. Gonzalez acknowledges saying, the drug-related violence across the border in Mexico would cease. He then brought up an organization called Law Enforcement Against Prohibition that favors ending the war on drugs'.
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   We have just the article, but even that much  seems to indicate that Mr Gonzales had a history of such sympathies, speaking favorably of an organization (LEAP) operating against the aim of the Border Patrol.  Then, upon being relieved Mr Gonzalez divulged his relationship to the group advocating against Border Patrol tenets.
   I have serious doubts that the Dallas Cowboys would keep even a star quarterback who continually condemned the Cowboys and praised the NY Jets !  I doubt the NRA would keep a PETA sympathizer on staff, or a logging company in Oregon would be happy to hand weekly checks to a tree-hugger, or any Bible-believing Christian Church should be forced to keep on staff, a queer who decides to "slither out of the closet"..
You guys can cling to the constitution in such a mundane situation as this, and add credibility to the ACLU in most of it's hare-brained ideas,  but I vote in favor of common sense.   I don't believe any company,  club or organization should be FORCED to retain anyone who works against the clearly stated mission of that organization.
 
   Should the CIA be allowed to fire a mole or spy when he is discovered, or must they keep them on staff ?
   
       All that being said, the buffoons in the administration are much more guilty of misconduct (IMO) than any border agent.  When they start firing agents for doing their job as trained, they are the lowest form of leadership, as I see it, and have no grounds on which to stand in judgement.  Mistreating an agent who is performing just as he was trained and instructed is low-down treachery, as I see it!
     
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/border-agent-gets-2-years-in-prison-for-rough-cuffing-a-drug-smuggling-suspect/
 
  Considering issues of the economy, middle east, taxes or even medical care, I personally do not see the legalization of mind-bending drugs as an important constitutional issue.  ..But I do find continual amusement with folks who often use various incidents such as this to somehow advocate for drug users.  When we see somebody voiciferously speaking up for and advocating the very things the confessed addicts are advocating...do we really have to wonder why the seem so hung up over such a minor issue ?
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  BTW..sorry about the heavy print..just carried over from the quote I presume.

[Dee]

Basing one's opinion on someone that one has never met, solely on a "newspaper article" is a great way to judge someone. With this same Justice system locking Border Patrol agents up for not treating smugglers with kid gloves, and violating their Constitutional Rights, which they don't really have as they are not U.S. citizens. Border Agents should no doubt walk off the job, for such thinking and leave the border and the citizens to defend themselves under such attitudes. Why defend a border where they can go to jail over a complaint from a drug smuggler, and be fired for an opinion, and a certain percentage of folks that live no where near the border, will jump on the band wagon over what they read in a newspaper article, probably Mexican owned and operated.
Some of you guys need to come on down to Texas, and visit the Laredo Border at night. It'll be a life changer if you live.

[Dee]

I guess some of you guys are ok with this Border Agents treatment too.
 
www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/border-agent-diaz-gets-2

This is a BORDER WAR led by the Obama Administration, and the Justice Dept. to KEEP THE BORDER OPEN, by prosecuting, and firing agents for the slightest offenses, or no offense at all. It is being done to dissuade them from doing their job. And some of you guys are blind as bats. You hate Obama, but you hate law enforcement more, and hold them to a standard you, yourself cannot attain.

If the link doesn't work, just do a search of Border Patrol Agent Jesus Diaz. Educate yourselves on whats really going on down here. By the way! Perry is silent on this.

[Dee]

A picture of the future if marijuana were made legal in the U.S.

1932   Al Capone, and Joe Kennedy lug a 70# case of whiskey to the back door of a Club, and say: We'll sell you this case of whiskey for $500.00. The club owner says: Naw! I get that delivered every Wednesday for $250.00. Capone and Kennedy are never heard of again.


2013   A dirty, wet, ,tired (and nervous) drug smuggler lugs a 70# bale of marijuana across the border, and tells a group of Americans. I'll sell you this bale of marijuana for $4,000.00. The Americans say: Naw! I can grow enough for myself legally in my garden. The drug smuggler drops the bale, and walks back across the border, and is never seen again.

You may not like it, and you may not understand it. But it's really that simple. They tried it with alcohol, and it didn't work under the Volstead Act. This ain't workin either. I personally enforced these drug laws for 20 years, and the fired Border Agent is right. Your supporting a fight against a VICE, that cannot be won, and your abandoning the very folks that are willing to fight YOUR FIGHT.

[yellowtail3]

A picture of the future if marijuana were made legal in the U.S. ... 2013   A dirty, wet, ,tired (and nervous) drug smuggler lugs a 70# bale of marijuana across the border, and tells a group of Americans. I'll sell you this bale of marijuana for $4,000.00. The Americans say: Naw! I can grow enough for myself legally in my garden. The drug smuggler drops the bale, and walks back across the border, and is never seen again.

You may not like it, and you may not understand it. But it's really that simple.

Quite true, but worse is this: too many people make bank on The War, and resist trying anything else. MANY careers built on the War on (some) Drugs - lots of pensions going to drug warriors, and others want theirs. Those folks aren't willing to let it go. Neither is gov't; they want their cut. Whole professions depend upon it. So any ideas that might endanger that big rice bowl, must be shut down.

[Dee]

Ask any Border agent, if he had rather roust illegals back across the border, of face a drug cartel, and he'll take the illegal enforcement every time. Working drug runners is dangerous, and unpredictable. A pension doesn't matter if your dead.
Sheriff's deputies are the same. Public relations, cattle out, minor burglaries, and the occasional killing. With drug smugglers in their county, and the U.S. Government virtually silent on the issue, and prosecuting Agents, and other law enforcement agencies, pensions are thought less about, and more attention is focused on staying alive, and out of the sights of smugglers, and the Justice Dept.
Check out the retirement for an Agent or Deputy some time in this part of the world. It ain't much. But on the other hand, what's the difference in a Border Agent working toward his retirement and any other citizen doing the same?

[gypsyman]

Just going by what we read in this one story, seems the punishment was overboard. LE's have done alot worse, and didn't get fired. There's either more to this story than what we read, or one of his superiors just had it in for him. gypsyman

[ironglow]

I guess some of you guys are ok with this Border Agents treatment too.
 
www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/border-agent-diaz-gets-2

This is a BORDER WAR led by the Obama Administration, and the Justice Dept. to KEEP THE BORDER OPEN, by prosecuting, and firing agents for the slightest offenses, or no offense at all. It is being done to dissuade them from doing their job. And some of you guys are blind as bats. You hate Obama, but you hate law enforcement more, and hold them to a standard you, yourself cannot attain.

If the link doesn't work, just do a search of Border Patrol Agent Jesus Diaz. Educate yourselves on whats really going on down here. By the way! Perry is silent on this.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  Dee;  The link I provided in post #46 explains the mistreatment of Agent Diaz...
   http://www.theblaze.com/stories/border-agent-gets-2-years-in-prison-for-rough-cuffing-a-drug-smuggling-suspect/
..............................................................
  I Still get a blast out of people who wrap themselves in the constitution in their efforts to get their drug of choice legalized..
  Have they tried knocking themselves on the head with a hammer ?  They may just be able to scramble their brains that way..
  cheaper too !!

[Dee]

And I get a blast out of folks that scream to high heaven about the over-bearing government, yet have such a police complex that they have no problem with that same government putting the Border Agents in jail for enforcing immigration and drug smuggling laws.
As I don't know anything about what your talking about this "wrapping themselves in the constitution in their efforts to get their drug of choice legalized" I see it, as what is working, and what is not working from first hand experience.
 

[blind ear]

 
Not necessarily powderman. I personally participated in that "war on drugs" for 20 years. Five of those years were "full time just on drugs", and I can tell you that the "war on drugs" does not exist. The "war on personal property" actually exists, but the drugs are only a pathway to the property.
The only reason it is not legal today, is that the government cannot figure out how to tax something you can grow at home without special tools.
ALCOHOL IS A DRUG, but beer sure goes good with Mexican food, and gosh! A whiskey and coke, is good on the porch in the evening.
Gonzalez may be Mexican by descent but, that doesn't make him a supporter of the criminal element in drug trafficking. I am of American Indian decent, and I fully support the United States Military. Besides. If marijuana was legalized, it WOULD cut the trafficking down about 60%, as it would take the money out of it. Gonzalez is RIGHT. But stupid for speaking truth. That's why most officers don't say it. They want to keep their job. As far as "retired officers" coming out against marijuana laws. Perhaps they have seen both sides, that FEW OTHERS HAVE SEEN, AND ACTUALLY KNOW LITTLE ABOUT, BUT "THINK" THEY DO. YA RECKON?
I have seen far more drunks ruin their own lives, and those of others, than a pot smoker ever has.

+1 ear

[guzzijohn]

+2.
The worst thing about weed for ruining someones life is the laws.
GliderJohn

[Casull]

quote]Why is it guys like yourself jump on the "fire the bum" band wagon, when you hear one side of a police firing 



I don't know, Dee.  Maybe the same reason you jump on the other side of the band wagon, when you hear one side.  I get jumped on here all the time for taking the side of law enforcement.  It appears that this guy was not union, and therefore an at will employee.  You do understand that concept, don't you?  And, just because someone has an "opinion", it does not mean they should express it, regardless of the situation.  Would you tell your boss that his daughter is ugly?  That would just be expressing your opinion, but you wouldn't do it, would you?  If someone doesn't have the common sense to understand that, then maybe they don't have the common sense to do the job.

[Dixie Dude]

I've read somewhere that people ordering tobacco seeds has gone up 10 fold.  Some are trying to grow their own to avoid the cigarette tax.  I also think the law states you can make your own wine, beer, and alcohol for you or your families consumption.  You just can't sell it without inspection and taxing it. 
 
They can do the same with marijuanna.  You can grow it legal for yourself, BUT can't sell it without it being taxed.  Once it is legalised, taxed and packaged like ciggarettes or cigars, most won't go to the trouble of growing their own.  Hard drugs should be illegal, especially meth, because once you are hooked, you never really can get off them.  Cocane or heroin one can get off, but meth is very bad.  I think alcohol should be restricted at bars, to keep drunks off the road or at least the bartenders should make sure the guy has someone to take him home. 

[yellowtail3]

They can do the same with marijuanna.  You can grow it legal for yourself, BUT can't sell it without it being taxed.  Once it is legalised, taxed and packaged like ciggarettes or cigars, most won't go to the trouble of growing their own. 

Eating your own garden-grown foods and... uh, herbs... is a satisfying, natural thing to do, and none the gubmint's damned bidness.
 
But like I've already written... there are a lot of careers and dollars seizure booty at stake, so the drug warriors won't give up without a fight... their rice-bowl is at stake!

[powderman]

You can grow it legal for yourself, BUT can't sell it without it being taxed.

 
Not in Kentucky. Just ask my neighbor. POWDERMAN. 

[Casull]

Yep, not in Virginia or Illinois either.  Fact is, I don't know of any such state.