Author Topic: 45-70 Encore- I think I lost a filling! (Read 4045 times)

Tim Price · « **on:** December 03, 2011, 04:55:19 PM »

Recently my father-in-law (I thought he liked me) gave me his 45-70 Encore rifle. It has a TC factory barrel. He also gave me some ammo that he had a friend load for him. The bag says "45-70, IMR 3031 54.4 (grains I assume) and 405 grain Jacketed soft point.

I am shooting it using the open sights. I took it to the range today. The first shot I got a good kick to the shoulder and face. It just got worse and worse. After 5 shots I had enough. I think I was seeing floaters in my vision and I think I may have lost a filling. That light rifle was no fun at all to shoot.

I think my only option is to load some very light cast bullet loads. Does anyone have any they can recommend? From the looks of things, with this bag of about 30 rounds, I have a life time supply of ammo. I guess my father in law is right- I am a wuss!

Thanks for any load suggestions.

Tim

JGREG · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2011, 05:57:01 PM »

I just bought a 45/70 barrel on here from deaconlb I have not shot it probably will not But do you think it being on a prohunter set up it will have less recoil? Also when you reload some bullets please let me know the results and if they may still be able to kill a whitetail/200lbs max up to a hundred yards?
Thanks in advance for the warning and good luck
Jim

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2011, 06:47:05 PM »

Ummm...your father in law may like you, but his "friend" might not like him. The max load of IMR3031 for a 405 grain jacketed soft point in my Lyman 49th us 51.5. That MIGHT explain the recoil. You may wanna tell your father-in-law about this, in case the friend is loading any more for him.

VT30-30 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:14:44 AM »

That is a heavy load in a 45-70. In my Encore barrel I shoot quite a lot milder loads and it puts deer down and I mean fast.
This past season I got my deer with 325 Flex Tips that I loaded. At 65 yards he never took a step, just went down.
I also load 405 lead bullets with Trai Boss and its a fun load to shoot. Very accurate and no recoil. The 45-70 is a great
round in the Encore.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:35:59 AM »

I load 410 grain cast with a gas check over 54.5 grains of Varget (not IMR3031) and get 1750 fps (32" barrel). That load will bang-flop dang near any big game animal on the planet out to 200 yards. Probably more like 1000 if you can get one to hold still long enough.

Camp Cook · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:53:42 AM »

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on December 03, 2011, 06:47:05 PM

Ummm...your father in law may like you, but his "friend" might not like him. The max load of IMR3031 for a 405 grain jacketed soft point in my Lyman 49th us 51.5. That MIGHT explain the recoil. You may wanna tell your father-in-law about this, in case the friend is loading any more for him.

Lyman may state that but Hodgdon's Load Center shows for Marlin lever actions for level two load data and the Encore can handle far higher pressures than a Marlin lever @ 55.0grs IMR3031 with a 400gr Jacketed bullet = only 37,000CUP.

Your loads are close to top load/pressure safe for level two data your rifle will handle these pressures easily what I suggest is get yourself a Kick-Eez Magnum grind to fit model recoil pad and install it (freeze it over night will make it far easier to grind smoothly) onto it these pads will reduce felt recoil to a level that you will be able to handle a lot easier.

Wish my father-in-law would give me an Encore in 45-70...

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:56:59 AM »

Unless he's going in an Elephant Hunt I don't see the need for him to load to brutal recoil levels. What velocity is that load listed at? 1800? 1850? Why?

Slowpoke Slim · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2011, 05:25:52 AM »

That is definitely a stiff load, especially in a 7 pound rifle. I guess it would depend on the hunting situation?

If you dropped that load by 10 grains, you'd still have a load that would take anything in N. America to moderate ranges. The 45-70 will never have the trajectory of a 300 win mag, and trying to turn it into something it's not is pure folly.

Save those "magnum-magnum" loads for the day you hear that a circus elephant escaped and is on a rampage in your neighborhood.

Camp Cook · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »

1970fps

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2011, 01:08:37 PM »

Tim
Get you some 300 grn jacket soft point bullets and a can of Trail Boss powder, follow the instructions on Hodgdon web site for figuring the load with Trail Boss powder and you will fall in love with the way it shoots, mild recoil, mild report and fun to shoot. That is what I use in mine also use it in my contender 444 marlin contender pistol.

Deaconllb

Camp Cook · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:03:47 PM »

WOW some of you guys are really into the powder puff loads for your 45-70's = my loads for my far weaker than an Encore frame 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 45-70 is 325gr FTX @ 1850fps and my heavy weight load is 430gr WLNGC's @ 1580fps.

My Marlin 1895GS loads are 350gr Swift A-Frames @ 2150fps, 525gr Piledrivers @ 1600fps and 550gr Crater's @ 1580fps.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:31:37 PM »

Your loads are not appreciably different from mine. But none of them are as stout as his.

woods · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2011, 02:53:26 PM »

Powder puff loads! huh, if your practicing on pop cans at 25 yrds and you shoot 20 rounds or so you would be developoing a flinch if they weren't light loads. I'll give you a little drill to run through some time at the range and you tell me what your results are when you try it. Try it with light then try it with heavy and you will have a little different out look on learning to shoot.
I'm sure you have a 22 rifle and some empty pop cans line up 6 cans on a board at 25 yards, next place one egg on a platform at the same distance. Now loading your 22 one shell at a time like your single shot shoot each can then the egg.You probably hit every target and splattered the egg. Now lets see you do the same test with the heavy 45-70 rounds after 6 shots with the heavy stuff I bet you can't hit the egg. This is 25 yrds not a long shot at all, but most people can't do it unless there shooting the powder puff loads. Why!!! The recoil is makeing them flinch after about 5 rounds. I laughed my but off watching one of my friends try this with his 405 grain sledge hammer loads in his 1895, took him 3 shots to hit the egg. and he missed the 6'th can.

woods

Camp Cook · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2011, 03:18:41 PM »

I can handle recoil and can pull off you egg drill faster than most...

Here is a link to me on YouTube playing around shooting my 1895GS with 350gr Hornady JRN @ appr 2100fps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-AVr7gNmrU

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2011, 04:43:24 PM »

Quote

I think my only option is to load some very light cast bullet loads. Does anyone have any they can recommend?

300 grain or 405 grain cast over Trail Boss data from Hodgdon's website are very mild and fun to shoot. Very accurate out of my G2 carbine. Another powder I like for cast loads is IMR SR-4759, especially with the 405's for an equivalent factory trapdoor loading. Plenty of power for hunting without wrecking your shoulder.

woods · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:34:57 PM »

I'll admit it camp cook you are one of the few that can probably do it but obviously you spend some time at the range practicing, I didn't say it couldn't be done just not many can do it or want to try for that matter. I'll stick to my trailboss loads loafing along at 1200 or so. Bye the way I like the rifle what sights do you have on there? Looks like a williams peep, what's the extended piece on the forarm?
woods

Camp Cook · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:19:09 PM »

I use Warne nickel two piece scope bases and mount my scope onto my 1895GS with Leupold QRW rings when I do not want the scope on I pop it off and mount on the rear base an XS Sights low Weaver backup ghost ring sight.

Here is a link to the page on XS Sights web site http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=sights&cID=Sights&pID=sights&sID=rifle

I also use an XS Sights tall Weaver backup ghost ring sight on my 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM I have it sighted in dead on @ 50 yards with my 350gr Barnes TSX @ 2450fps.

This is the rifle I now use for remote area animal defense here in British Columbia, Canada when I want to hunt anything I pop my Leupold VX3 4.5-14X40mm B&C reticle scope on with 260gr Accubonds @ 3020fps zero'ed @ 200 yards the second B&C reticle line down is dead on @ 460 yards.

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2012, 03:14:45 PM »

Try the Remington 405 grain factory load.

BBF · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2012, 05:20:26 AM »

Those 300 gr HP are all fragile IMO at factory velocities.

Load them down to around 1400 fps.

The 405 Rem's are pleasant to shoot with 25 to 27 gr of 2400 and have more velocity then the factory loads.

abolt-fan · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2012, 08:36:21 PM »

Hornady 300gr. HP, 49.0gr. RL 7 at approx. 1900 fps. Comfortable to shoot, accurate and they'll hammer the snot out of deer.

This is a factory equivalent load and we haven't had any problems with the bullet holding together. Matter of fact we haven't recovered one.

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2012, 11:31:58 PM »

Quote from: BBF on May 27, 2012, 05:20:26 AM

Those 300 gr HP are all fragile IMO at factory velocities.

Load them down to around 1400 fps.

The 405 Rem's are pleasant to shoot with 25 to 27 gr of 2400 and have more velocity then the factory loads.

Good advise....Trapdoor velocities are more than enough.

pastorp · « **Reply #21 on:** May 30, 2012, 03:19:08 AM »

Good morning everyone,

Back when I shot 45-70 quite a lot, our light practice/hunting load was a 405gr cast bullet and 24gr of 2400. Comfortable to shoot, accurate in most rifles, & plenty for any hoofed game in america..

Regards,

Camp Cook · « **Reply #22 on:** May 30, 2012, 03:37:28 AM »

I'm thinking if you are only going to be shooting the light loads that are being suggested there is no reason to go to the much heavy Encore get yourself a Contender carbine...

BBF · « **Reply #23 on:** May 30, 2012, 08:53:46 AM »

Quote from: abolt-fan on May 29, 2012, 08:36:21 PM

..................
..............................

This is a factory equivalent load and we haven't had any problems with the bullet holding together. Matter of fact we haven't recovered one.

It would presume that the Hdy bullet is heavier constructed. I do not have any other 300 gr bullets to dissect to have a look at their jackets. The Rem's are soft and I had one come apart in less then factory velocities. Regardless of the disintegration, two pieces were large enough to exit a red deer.

muznut 54 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 30, 2012, 10:43:01 AM »

I use to shoot the Hornaday 350gr sp in my H&R Ultra Hunter 450M at 2300fps all the time. Don't try this in a trapdoor or a even a lever but 16 to 17.5gr of titegroup with a rem 300gr sp shoots very accurate and like a cream puff and will dump a deer real fast.