Author Topic: 45-70 and Lee Loader, powder recommendations please (Read 2161 times)

BKS · « **on:** December 04, 2011, 03:54:22 PM »

I have a Handi Rifle in 45-70 I am trying to reload for. So far I have accumulated the following:
Lee Loader
Complete set of Lee Dippers
Remington 405 JSP
Hornady 300 JHP
Hornady 350 JSP
Remington Brass
Current Speer Loading Manual*
Older Hornady and Speer Manuals*
I also have my Dad's Ohaus 10-10 Scales.

I am looking for recommendations for a load using this equipment. I have had to do a lot of horse trading to get to this point as money is kinda tight so I could use a little help if possible and not have to buy 13 different powders etc.

keith44 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2011, 04:13:26 PM »

For me IMR 3031 is my go to powder for the 45-70. You just cant put too much in and still seat the bullet. When I get in from work tonight I can post some loads that I like.

I recommend getting one of the single caliber loading manuals. They list loads from bullet and powder manufacturers. The last one I bought was only $6 and change. The equipment you have will load perfectly good ammo, add a press to speed the process, and a Lee handprime when you get tired of the occasional suprise. Hammering primers into the primer pocket works fine 99% of the time, it's just the one out of a few hundred that cause the floor to require mopping that get old.

sabbatus · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2011, 04:13:46 PM »

I have had great luck with either imr 3031 or imr 4198. I find that the imr 4198 is a bit cleaner burning. Both will function great with any bullet in the 45/70 including cast. A top producing load for my rifle is the 350 gr hndy r.n., 48.0 gn IMR 4198, loaded to 2.550. this load was taken from imr website. In my 22" handi will hold right at a inch at 100 yd. I will say though that this is a stout load and produces noticable recoil, and is much more than is needed for most any hunting application. Check out www.imrpowder.com you can find alot of load information for your rifle. H&R stated that the handi can be loaded safely to lever gun pressures and those are plenty hot enough. Try loading some using the trap door loading tables, they will be much more pleasant to shoot, eat up less powder and probably be just as accurate

OSOK · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2011, 04:14:41 PM »

All I have to load for my .45-70 BC is a Lee Loader. I find it more enjoyable than a regular press.
What are you looking for with your reloads? Mild plinking or call the chiropractor Hot?
I use AA5744 under 460 gr. cast bullets. They are all I have loaded so far. 3031 and 4198 come highly recommended for full power loads, one of which will be my next purchase.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2011, 04:35:57 PM »

Wear safety glasses when you reload! As Keith44 mentioned, once in a while the primer is cocked and the rap you give the rod to seat it will set it off. You learn real quick not to have your face over the loader when seating primers as the rod WILL fly up a little. Otherwise it's a fun setup and will let you make lots of cheap ammo.

-WH-

BKS · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2011, 05:19:19 PM »

southern woods hunting for deer and hogs, mostly paper punching,

I definitely dont want, break your shoulder loads, just trying to get some advice/recommendations so I can kinda hedge my bet to get a good load.

keith44 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2011, 05:40:01 PM »

Any load that pushes a 350 grain bullet to 1,600 fps or more will get the job done in all three rolls. Even Trapdoor loads tend to kick a bit, but that level does not hurt, some of the higher end levergun loads, and the starting loads for the Ruger #1 will begin to cause discomfort, especially off a bench

keith44 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2011, 08:01:08 PM »

Ok as promised, favorite 45-70 loads

I like the Hornady JHP 300 grain bullet you picked. Nice big hole at the business end, and if you don't hit bone a not so nice big hole on the exit side of the target. I like 53.6 grains of 3031 and a standard large rifle primer with this one. It clocks about 1,750 fps and has a ton of energy at the muzzle.

I've never tried the 350 grain offering from Hornady, since this is offered for use in the 458 Win Mag, and .458 Lott I assume the jacket is thicker than I would normally like for deer. If I were going to try this bullet I would probably try for 1,800 or 1,900 fps. A max load of 3031 (56.1 grains) is right there, along with 45.3 grains of IMR 4198. (this picked from a manual as a goal, if you try these start with a load of 47.0 grains of 3031, or 35.0 grains of 4198)

The only heavier bullets I have tried were cast. Cast bullets and the 45-70 just go together. An alloy of 20:1 lead/tin is perfect for a hard hitting hammer load. A 405 grain flat nosed bullet of this alloy pushed by 52.1 grains of 3031 is a hammer! This load is not recommended for the Handi, it is a low level load for the Ruger #1. It kicks like a mule, and sends the muzzle skyward. Back off the powder to 35.5 grains of 3031 and you have a target load that's as easy on the shoulder as a .22LR.

Have fun, go ahead and buy those 13 powders, but only after you prove that IMR 3031, IMR 4198, and Reloader 7 do not give the results you want.

FTG-05 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:12:54 AM »

Reloder 7 is supposed to be designed for the 45-70 caliber. I just loaded about 25 rounds for my Guide Gun, but haven't tested them yet. I used right around 45 grains under a Remington 300 grain JHP. Velocity should be around 1800-1900 but don't recall what the book says it is.

Good luck.

ibgp3 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:51:02 AM »

I didn't see where BKS said what kind of Handi he has.
I'm told that my 1972 Shikari is not as strong as a modern version.
If there are differences, the advice he gets should be appropriate for the one he has.

mdwest · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:59:54 AM »

If I recall correctly he has a fairly new Buffalo Classic in 45-70...

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:58:35 AM »

Quote from: ibgp3 on December 05, 2011, 03:51:02 AM

I didn't see where BKS said what kind of Handi he has.
I'm told that my 1972 Shikari is not as strong as a modern version.
If there are differences, the advice he gets should be appropriate for the one he has.

Good point, the Shikari has a cast iron frame and is limited to trapdoor loads, but it appears he has a 22" Handi from a previous discussion.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,239846.msg1099367282.html#msg1099367282

manatee1947 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2011, 05:42:23 AM »

+1 on those powders. I use RL7 in my jacketed loads, and 4198 for most cast loads. 47 gr of RL7 and the 300gr HP is as hot as I go, and it is very accurate for me. A 340 gr Lee mold would be a good addition for you, and 30 to 34 gr of 4198 should produce a sweetheart load for you somewhere between 1350 and 1550 fps. Good luck with it. Look forward to range reports.

tacklebury · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2011, 01:41:19 PM »

+1 on Reloader7 that's all I use except some Unique light loads for round ball. I like 47gr & the Hornady 300 gr. HP, 47gr and the 325gr FTX or 48gr and the Hornady 350 gr. FP bullets. All are sub-moa in my buffalo classic. I am getting around 6" 250 yard groups with the williams sight also.

Yak Angler · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2011, 02:20:27 PM »

+ 2 on the safety glasses when seating primers with the lee loader. It works but i got tired of the primers going off and bought the RCBS universal hand primer, its the best money i have spent on reloading tools to date. Not to say the lee loader doesn't work , because it does a fine job, the primer seating method just leave's alot to be desired.

tacklebury · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2011, 03:24:57 PM »

Yep, I wear ear plugs too, because in an enclosed space they are REAL loud too. lol

BKS · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:16:10 PM »

Guys thanks for the recommendations,

streak · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2011, 04:28:57 PM »

I`m with keith44 on the 3031 powder, I have just reloaded some 45-70 with the 405 Rem SP and 3031.

Buckwheat Jack · « **Reply #18 on:** December 06, 2011, 11:31:00 AM »

I use a Lee 450 grain bullet over 24 to 28 grains of IMR 4198. Like the accuracy and recoil combination in my 22" Handi.

BBF · « **Reply #19 on:** December 07, 2011, 10:04:06 AM »

I've used the Lee Priming Tool for many years and never had a primer go off.

As far as powders go, IMR 4198,RL-7 or 2400 will do whatever you need to do and leave a clean looking barrel.
Lastly, anytime you start putting upper 30 to over 40 gr. of powder under any jacketed bullet you will get RECOIL !!

If you want a powder puff load that is still useful in hunting with cast bullets there are shotgun and pistol powders available.

jlchucker · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2011, 03:50:30 AM »

If you want low-level recoil with decent performance, 5744 seems to work pretty well for me with 405 gr cast bullets. For some strange reason that particular powder gives lower recoil than comparable loads with 3031 or RL-7. Nothing against the latter two powders though--I've used both in the 45-70 for years. You may want to go on line to the websites of various powder manufacturers and check if they've posted load data about their products for your 45-70.

You mentioned hunting. There's lots of good things that have been said about the 45-70 as a hunting round, and it's been said for well over a hundred years now. I doubt that there's a game animal of any kind found in North America that hasn't been cleanly killed by a 45-70, shot with a cast 405 grain bullet poking along at velocities below 1600 fps or so. You don't need shoulder-breaking, super-duper recoiling velocities with a 45-70 to get the job done--those well-placed, slow-moving lead bullets won't bounce off!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:07:12 AM »

Quote from: jlchucker on December 08, 2011, 03:50:30 AM

You don't need shoulder-breaking, super-duper recoiling velocities with a 45-70 to get the job done--those well-placed, slow-moving lead bullets won't bounce off!

The Mythbusters' recent cannon experiment will attest to that, it was launched at ~1000fps!!!

Tim

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/chi-mythbusters-cannonball-accident-20111208,0,1365942.story

Quote

Once it was launched, the cannonball traveled about 650 yards, bounced in front of the home, then tore through the front door and exited through a wall on the back of the house.

The projectile then bounced at least once more and crossed the road before smashing the window and dashboard of a gold minivan, where it came to rest.

BBF · « **Reply #22 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:10:38 AM »

Must have been a 10 pounder LOL !!

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 08, 2011, 01:23:02 PM »

For a nice mid range trapdoor load I like IMR SR-4759. It burns clean, recoil isn't bad and you can duplicate factory velocity with the 405 grain lead bullets. It fills the case pretty well, too.

kennyd · « **Reply #24 on:** December 08, 2011, 03:48:05 PM »

I settled on a 400 gr. bullet, 4759 DuPont powder, using a Lee 2.8 dipper. I just looked, and didn't put down the weight. It chronos at 1560 through a 22" barrel. I have also used the 405 Remington, and some hard cast 420's.

These are from the "Marlin and 1886" tables, and were not at the top.

It kicks like a mule, and will cripple you if you bench around 12 or so rounds, I know. I had a blood blister all the way from my shoulder to the elbow. Everything healed OK, but be aware of the punishment bench resting gives.

Remember, the dipper needs to be struck even and not compacted to get repeatable results.

In the long run try for a complete bench setup of you can, or find one of the hand tools and regular dies.

PowPow · « **Reply #25 on:** December 08, 2011, 04:51:56 PM »

If you find a good load that doesn't equal a level dipper, consider dripping candlewax in the dipper to displace the volume you don't need. Then check several dips against the scale to confirm you have to correct amount of wax. If you mess up or change you load you can scrape the wax out. In fact I would put too much wax in and scrape tiny bits to get it right.

keith44 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 08, 2011, 04:57:10 PM »

I use the dipper set to dispense into my scale pan, that way I can fine tune any load. It might be a tad slower than just dip and scrape but I know each and every one is the same.

streak · « **Reply #27 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:01:26 PM »

Quote from: keith44 on December 08, 2011, 04:57:10 PM

I use the dipper set to dispense into my scale pan, that way I can fine tune any load. It might be a tad slower than just dip and scrape but I know each and every one is the same.

keith44,
I use the same method, a little slow but consistent loads are the results!!

PowPow · « **Reply #28 on:** December 08, 2011, 11:07:38 PM »

I do to. Just fits my single shot mentality and satisfies my OCD personality.
Use a trickler, too.
Got to make them in even lots of 50 or 100. Could never make 33 or 26; wouldn't be able to sleep that night.
Great activity for OCD types.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #29 on:** January 01, 2012, 06:08:03 AM »

All these responses and not one mention of my favorite 45-70 load, one I have loaded many times using a Lee Loader. 28.0 grains of 2400 behind a 350 Grain Hornady RNFP. Easy shooting, extremely accurate and very clean to shoot....<><....

P.S. - my method as well:

Quote from: keith44 on December 08, 2011, 10:57:10 PM

"I use the dipper set to dispense into my scale pan, that way I can fine tune any load. It might be a tad slower than just dip and scrape but I know each and every one is the same."