Author Topic: More wonderful diversity to celebrate  (Read 1479 times)

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Offline subdjoe

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More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« on: December 05, 2011, 07:32:14 AM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Anjem-Choudary-Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html

Quote
We are going to go to all these same areas and implement our own Sharia-controlled zones.

‘This is the best way for dealing with drunkenness and loutishness, prostitution and the sort of thug life attitude you get in British cities.’

The former lawyer added: ‘This will mean this is an area where the Muslim community will not tolerate drugs, alcohol, pornography, gambling, usury, free mixing between the sexes – the fruits if you like of Western civilisation.

‘We want to run the area as a Sharia-controlled zone and really to put the seeds down for an Islamic Emirate in the long term.’

Scotland Yard is now working with local councils to remove the posters and identify those responsible for putting them up.

Choudary said he was organising a protest against the Far Right in Waltham Forest this weekend following last Friday’s killing spree in Norway by anti-Islamic gunman Anders Breivik.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Anjem-Choudary-Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html#ixzz1fgcmRCur
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 07:53:36 AM »
Choudary has at least one thing right - there's s fair amount of drunkeness & loutishness in some Brit neighborhoods.
 
Checking out his sign... it looks kind of like something some of our fundamentalists brethren would like to put up here: no rock-n-roll, no bettin', no drinkin' or drugs, and no high heels!
 
Yep... we've got plenty of that here, they just don't call it Sharia....
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 08:06:45 AM »
Yep, the old "don't hold me accountable because look what he's doing" defense.      ::)
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 08:19:05 AM »
Yep, the old "don't hold me accountable because look what he's doing" defense.      ::)

??
Where is the defense, and... in defense of what?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 08:35:59 AM »
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Where is the defense, and... in defense of what?

 
 
Please.  I seldom agree with you, but I know you're not stupid.  Don't feign ignorance.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 09:10:11 AM »
Nice try at deflection, Yellow.
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Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 03:14:41 PM »
No deflection, no defense of anything - I simply point out that if you take the poster in the article for face value, it doesn't sound that much diff than what some fundamentalist/pentecostal brothers might come up with. Read it:
 

 
Got a problem with that observation?
 
 
 
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 03:22:55 PM »
Because those groups won't enforce with on the spot amputations of limbs or heads.  Or stonings.  Or floggings.  Just a little bit of difference there, ya know?


No deflection, no defense of anything - I simply point out that if you take the poster in the article for face value, it doesn't sound that much diff than what some fundamentalist/pentecostal brothers might come up with. Read it:
 

 
Got a problem with that observation?
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 03:32:57 PM »
Because those groups won't enforce with on the spot amputations of limbs or heads.  Or stonings.  Or floggings.  Just a little bit of difference there, ya know?

True; the John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Bob Jones & David Cloud gang rarelyl do any of that, that I'm aware (if at all). But it's interesting that fundamentalist Christians & Muslims are pretty close to each other, when it comes to...'moral code'
 
The little sign makes it clear.
 
BUT MAYBE the Muslims are just a few years behind. Back near the founding of this country, real early, the Pilgrims (Separatists) and Puritans had a little Sharia going. Puritans did hang people for being witches, and they hanged Quakers for showing up in Boston. I can't remember the kid's name... but there was a 17 y/o member of the early colonies who'd been accused of buggering a goat, or somesuch. They killed his goat, and then killed the 17 year old.
kind of Sharia-like, there... give the Muslims another couple hundred years, maybe they'll come around as some of the Christians did?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 04:29:51 PM »
Looks like yet another thread being diverted into another anti Christian rant. Big surprise. Starts out about sharia law, now anti Christian. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline teamnelson

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 04:40:24 PM »
So if the Puritans wanted to create zones where they contravene the law of the land, are you saying it'd be okay? Was that your point?

(The Puritan faith did not call for those actions, by the way. It's a distinction that might not be relevant to your point perhaps, but nevertheless true. Whereas Islam, from the Quran, Hadith and Umma, calls for beheadings, mutilation and stoning for the slightest moral infraction. Before you ask for credentials again: I speak, read and write Arabic and did post grad in Amman, pastored Arabic speaking churches, and worked with converts in Muslim countries in Africa and the Middle East. Youll find im equally protective of misunderstandings about Islam. Uncle Sam sent me to DLI as a lad.)
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 04:47:17 PM »
No deflection, no defense of anything - I simply point out that if you take the poster in the article for face value, it doesn't sound that much diff than what some fundamentalist/pentecostal brothers might come up with. Read it:
 

 
Got a problem with that observation?
I have a few problmes with it.
1) the constitution is the law of the land!
2) with these people if you give them an inch they bully and demand  their way to 50 miles!
3)With some of the more strict christian groups, they want their laws that are similar for them selves.  They do not want to force their beliefs and laws on the rest of us.
4) With the pentacostals if you dress slutty they pray for you, in Middle Eastern Islam they attack and attemt ot Rape you.  Look at the female reporter in that was covering the Arab spring  when a group attacked her and the camera men had to save her and they were attacked and badly beaten.
5) while you have the right to practice what you want, you do not have the right to force your beliefs on others and take over public property to do this.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 05:11:26 PM »
So if the Puritans wanted to create zones where they contravene the law of the land, are you saying it'd be okay?
No, I'm not saying that.
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Was that your point?
No.
Quote
Before you ask for credentials again: I speak, read and write Arabic and did post grad in Amman, pastored Arabic speaking churches, and worked with converts in Muslim countries in Africa and the Middle East.

I don't  believe I have ever asked you for any credentials, TN, even if this is the 2nd time you've offered some... .
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 06:33:31 PM »
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BUT MAYBE the Muslims are just a few years behind. Back near the founding of this country, real early, the Pilgrims (Separatists) and Puritans had a little Sharia going. Puritans did hang people for being witches, and they hanged Quakers for showing up in Boston. I can't remember the kid's name... but there was a 17 y/o member of the early colonies who'd been accused of buggering a goat, or somesuch. They killed his goat, and then killed the 17 year old. kind of Sharia-like, there... give the Muslims another couple hundred years, maybe they'll come around as some of the Christians did?

 
 
 
And, once again, we are treated with comparisons of what some Christians did half a millenium ago to justify what muslims did today (and will do again tomorrows).      ::)
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 01:06:53 AM »
I speak, read and write Arabic and did post grad in Amman, pastored Arabic speaking churches, and worked with converts in Muslim countries in Africa and the Middle East. Youll find im equally protective of misunderstandings about Islam. Uncle Sam sent me to DLI as a lad.)
Well then, you're uniquely positioned to speak to the Muslim-bashing that goes on here. Have at it.

But to the last post... no trollin'... I just don't go along with the 'so you're saying...' bit. And TN, if you look back on my posts were you & I have communicated... I never have asked you for credentials. Not once.
And, once again, we are treated with comparisons of what some Christians did half a millenium ago to justify what muslims did today (and will do again tomorrows).

Careful now, Cusull - I've not justified anything by the guy in the article with his Sharia Zone signs. Didn't say I approved - I don't, I'm against imposing religious law against citizens. What I did, was note that the Islamic Rules actually on his sign, aren't much different than the rules some stripes of Christians would like to impose, right here in America. I was telling the truth on that. No justifying going on here.
 
What do you think - don't the Islamic Rules on that sign sound just a little familiar? Kind of like a fundamentalists prescription to stay away from worldly things? FURTHER... I'll bet that those Muslims are against abortion, and don't like gay people, either. Whaddyathink?
 
You boys be good... I'm off to Omaha.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2011, 03:36:06 AM »
TM7, the Ummah is akin to the Talmud, yes. It is wisdom from the community of Islam. Comparatively, they would be stronger than apocryphal texts, but not as authoritative as the Quran. The Sharia is not built on the Quran directly, but on all 3 stacked - Q, H, U, S. Imagine the Pharisaical legal system during Christ, where divorce was granted for burnt toast. Christ's reply, it was not always so, God hates divorce, Moses granted because your hearts were hard (like Pharoah). That's sharia today.

Puritans were in colonial charter, under appropriate authority and were law abiding. In the main they practiced personal piety, leaving public piety to the courts. There were exceptions to this rule, which were condemned from the pulpit citing canon.

In the OPs example you have an unlawful community, operating outside of legal charter, enforcing a public piety standard on persons not subject to said standard, on the basis of opinion not canon. Regardless of motivation, it's wrong, and does not compare to the Puritans.

There is a vocal minority of Christians in the US who are also dismayed by degrading public morality. They too use the tool of interpretation over exposition to support their views. They have however stayed within the legal system, exercising their rights. And when they stepped outside of the law, they became criminals (Romans 13).

The devil is in the details, the differences between the OP and the comparisons are huge.
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Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2011, 05:57:17 AM »
Quote
those elders expressing the Shariah, i.e. the Path, are not violating any common Brit law, in fact they are supporting it.

 
 
 
Really.  So, tm, where in the Brit common law is alcohol, interest ("usury") and free mixing between the sexes prohibited?
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Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2011, 06:05:03 AM »
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What I did, was note that the Islamic Rules actually on his sign, aren't much different than the rules some stripes of Christians would like to impose, right here in America.

 
 
 
Ok, yollowtail, WHY?  The OP was about shariah in Great Brittain, not Christainity in the US.  So, tell us, why bring up the latter, if not to somehow excuse or minimize the former? 
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Offline lakota

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2011, 06:16:30 AM »
blah blah blah.
 
If the poster said "bible controled zone" the troll squad would be screaming bloody murder here and ranting on and on about seperation of church and state and on and on about the evils posed by zionists and christians and more wonk wonk wonk, but it says "Sharia controlled zone" so its all good!
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Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2011, 06:55:00 AM »
Quote
Go read the sign again...yes, we (use to) have laws against prostitution and pornography, disturbing the peace, drug use, gambling

 
 
 
Go read my post again.  So, again, where in "Brit" common law is alcohol, interest and free mixing between the sexes prohibited.  BTW, I don't care what we "use to" have laws against.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2011, 07:11:07 AM »
If the elders in that zone condemn the piety of others, that's free speech. If they go on to pronounce sentencing and administer punishment, they are vigilantes at best. If the code by which this proceeding is conducted contradicts or exceeds sovereign law, and their jurisdiction has not been granted dispensation by the sovereign, then it's insurrection or treason, placing their authority above the crown. The Sovereign has the right to punish them, per Sharia, for disobeying the Sovereign by practicing Sharia. Quite the pickle. I'm betting these are typical (ie uneducated) Imams.

I do not condemn their motivation, but the minute they pronounce a fatwa and kill an apostate, they're no different than those who kill abortion doctors.
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Offline powderman

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2011, 08:18:00 AM »
I wish someome would put up signs saying, God controlled zone ahead. No wife beating, no beheadings, no covering the face, no honor killings, no stonings, no worshiping false gods or prophets. The uk has doomed itself, signs like I suggested need hung all over Dearborn and all other vermin infested areas. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2011, 08:28:08 AM »
King D, in case you missed it, I was paraphrasing from the quote in the original post.   
 
 
You know, this one:  The former lawyer added: ‘This will mean this is an area where the Muslim community will not tolerate drugs, alcohol, pornography, gambling, usury, free mixing between the sexes – the fruits if you like of Western civilisation.

  :o
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2011, 11:16:57 AM »
Quote
What I did, was note that the Islamic Rules actually on his sign, aren't much different than the rules some stripes of Christians would like to impose, right here in America.

Ok, yollowtail, WHY? ...
.  So, tell us, why bring up the latter, if not to somehow excuse or minimize the former?
(shrug)Well... to demonstrate that the guy in the article isn't all that far from some fundamentalists here. Except... he prob has less political influence there, than our fundamentalists do here. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY... the Muslim's list of complaints, sounds about like a Christian's list of complaints. Did you notice how... mainstream they were, if the American brand of fundamentalism is mainstream? So, the fellow puttin up the signs doesn't seem all that diff than a bright-eyed convert with his Scofield Reference Bible & a strong sense of us vs them (saints vs The World)
 
But Casull, if you want to make the case that I'm a Muzzie in Disguise, an Apologist for the Caliphate... knock yerself out!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2011, 11:25:31 AM »
Quote
Well... to demonstrate that the guy in the article isn't all that far from some fundamentalists here.

 
 
 
Uh, well that is obvious.  But, was does it have to do with the OP?  Again, it comes down to "don't say anything about me, because look what that guy is doing".
 
 
 
Quote
But Casull, if you want to make the case that I'm a Muzzie in Disguise, an Apologist for the Caliphate... knock yerself out!

 
Not trying to do that (don't really need to).  But, I am still trying to figure out why on most any post about muslims, you want to change the subject to Christians.  Why not just start your own Christian bashing thread?
 
 
Oh, and BTW, I don't think you are a muzzie in disquise.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2011, 11:49:26 AM »
Not trying to do that (don't really need to).  But, I am still trying to figure out why on most any post about muslims, you want to change the subject to Christians.  Why not just start your own Christian bashing thread?

I'm not interested in Christian-bashing.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Casull

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2011, 12:01:41 PM »
Yellowtail, this dance could go on for a long time.  I'm tired.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2011, 12:27:39 PM »
Yellowtail, this dance could go on for a long time.  I'm tired.

Sorry to disappoint.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2011, 12:47:59 PM »
Not trying to do that (don't really need to).  But, I am still trying to figure out why on most any post about muslims, you want to change the subject to Christians.  Why not just start your own Christian bashing thread?

I'm not interested in Christian-bashing.

 
HEH, now THAT was funny. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: More wonderful diversity to celebrate
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2011, 01:10:47 PM »
Not trying to do that (don't really need to).  But, I am still trying to figure out why on most any post about muslims, you want to change the subject to Christians.  Why not just start your own Christian bashing thread?

I'm not interested in Christian-bashing.
My question is, If in any of the Muslium states (Iran, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan...) could we go there and then declare Occupy constitutional areas?  Would we be treated to a debate? allowed to protest, or would we be hauled off to a prison, or would a log be rolled out and we get to see how may wacks it takes to get througth the spine and sever the cranium from the body?