Author Topic: Musings of a minimalist Hunter - Jacob Gottfredson (Read 3455 times)

scootrd · « **on:** December 07, 2011, 06:27:43 PM »

I just finished reading an article entitled "musings of a minimalist hunter". by Jacob Gottfredson in Guns magazine.One of his comments were with - regards to Airline weight restrictions having pushed him to reconsider lightening his gear. Another comment was he spent 2 years trying to reduce his gear to under 65 lbs. and his final comment is Now that he is older he is finding even that 65 lb weight becoming restrictive. I thought it might be an interesting exercise to try and create a 3 day "Survival pack" virtually on-line for a given scenario with all here contributing -trying to include all necessary food/gear that would be required yet not exceeding 65lbs.

Scenario challenge (65lb gear restriction)
3 days back country Hunting, winter months, taking into account possibility of inclement weather.

So what Pack would you choose?

What essential gear would you select to accompany you?

spooked · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:01:30 AM »

Wool blanket, knife, axe,lightweight tarp, salt, coffee, matches, flint &steel, parched corn(pioneer style)extra woolen socks and underwear.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:31:44 AM »

A lot of your weight consideration will be effected by choice of firearm and intended prey. Truly lightweight hunting could be done with a single shot pistol like a Contender. Will you be in an area where water is accessible? Mountainous terrain? You could do three days in the woods around where I live on way less than 65 lbs. A Contender in 45 LC with an extra 22 hornet barrel, a tarp, sleeping bag, knife, some dried fruit, a stainless cup, instant grits, six tent stakes, 50 feet of paracord, an Esbit stove, instant coffee, water proof matches, spare socks, spare drawers, and a candle lantern. But coastal nc ain't exactly tough livin'.

scootrd · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2011, 09:00:24 AM »

Scenario challenge (65lb gear restriction)
3 days back country Hunting, winter months, taking into account possibility of inclement weather.

My personal choice rifle Remmy mod seven 7mm-08 (loaded, scoped, slinged, ) = 7.5 lbs
Pack probably a Badlands ..estimated weight 4 - 5 lbs
I would enter with 2 bladders of 100 oz of water = 13 lbs ( then rely on melting snow).

so far I am now up to 25.5. lbs

Hmm this is going to be harder than I thought.

now the laundry List of what has been contributed so far to my 3 day pack
tarp,
sleeping bag,
knife,
some dried fruit,
stainless cup,
instant grits,
six tent stakes,
50 feet of paracord, a
Esbit stove,
instant coffee,
water proof matches,
spare extra woolen socks
spare drawers,
underwear.
candle lantern.
Wool blanket,
axe,
salt
flint &steel,
parched corn(pioneer style)

Should these not also be considered before paring down to only essentials? (or adding additional before I pare down from other contributers?)

duct Tape, Binoculars, GPS ,Maps, Leatherman, Meds kit in case of injury, Tent , Iodine Tabs, compass, Grabber hand /foot warmers, Toilet Paper?

pab1 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2011, 07:26:54 PM »

I have done many 1-2 week bivy hunts in wilderness areas (no vehicle access). I usually do a loop and come back to a main pack to restock every 3 days or so. On a 3 day bivy, my pack usually starts out around 35-40 pounds. I use a 0 degree Slumberjack sleeping bag with a bivy sack. I have used this combo in rain and snow with no problem. I carry this bag most of the year unless its getting down around 20 degrees, then I'll use my Wiggys bag (but its heavier and bulkier). I'd rather have a bag thats too warm than take a chance and wind up being cold. I also carry a 3/4 length air mattress by Slumberjack. I carry a Kelty tarp if I'm expecting bad weather. Early in the year I don't usually bring it. On short hunts I often don't carry a stove and just eat cold meals (jerky, granola bars, etc). I carry a water bladder and iodine tablets to treat water. I don't like having a fire when hunting but carry matches, a couple lighters and fire starter (cotton balls saturated in petroleum jelly) in case I need to start a fire. My life might depend on starting a fire so I don't mind packing multiple items here. I carry a basic first aid kit, game bags, 7 strand paracord, map/compass, a couple good quality folding knives and a knife sharpener. I use compression sacks for the sleeping bag and any extra clothing since space saving can be almost as important as weight.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2011, 08:07:34 AM »

Its amazeing how times have changed, I'd read of the NW Penn Trapper/Market hunter E.N. Woodcock and his winter hunts, leaving camp for 2-3 days tracking down a loose bear (Black bear trapping in 1880's)
strike a light, some bread and roast bear meat, blanket & clothes on his back, a pocket knife and a rifle (swivel barrel muzzle loader)

teamnelson · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2011, 09:28:16 AM »

Quote from: Rex in OTZ on December 13, 2011, 08:07:34 AM

Its amazeing how times have changed, I'd read of the NW Penn Trapper/Market hunter E.N. Woodcock and his winter hunts, leaving camp for 2-3 days tracking down a loose bear (Black bear trapping in 1880's)
strike a light, some bread and roast bear meat, blanket & clothes on his back, a pocket knife and a rifle (swivel barrel muzzle loader)

IMPOSSIBLE!

Not really. Today it might be a wool blanket rolled up in WP tarp with silver side, appropriate clothing/shoes, fire starter, food, pocket knife, and a firearm. I'd add a sawyer squeeze to my possibles bag just because clean drinking water is not as prevalent as it was in the 1880s, and a small med kit.

BTW, here's a link to the article the OP mentioned: http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS1111/?page=52

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2011, 04:41:02 PM »

I've got a friend who buys all sorts of camping "gadgets" lots of which are advertised as "ultra lightweight". First time we went out together he was stunned. My pack is a surplus ALICE I got for $15 (a long tome ago...) and I'm guessing my total load out weighed 30 pounds and cost $50 (not counting the rifle). His was probably $600 and weighed.....70 pounds.

don heath · « **Reply #8 on:** December 16, 2011, 03:01:00 AM »

I learned about 'light weight' in the oposite extremes- hot weather (100 minimum at night up to 125+ by day.) My complete kit for a 3-5 day partol weighed 30lbs before I added water. that included a 13lb rifle and 60 rnds of 7.62 ammo + a loaded browning highpower.

These days my hunting rig comes in at - gun belt 10lbs, Cammel bak with 100oz water 12 lbs + rifle. Emergency blanket but no sleeping bag and one energy bar for client and 6 hr energy bottle (again to help clients back on their feet)

In cold, bad weather...my sleeping bag would weigh 60lbs (if you handle cold like I do...hell indoor at SCI in january I typically wear three layers!)

The Hermit · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:37:43 PM »

I am enjoying this. My, how equipement has changed! I am looking at my pack basket hanging by its straps, and remembering Donna and I camping 40 years ago. To us, saving weight meant taking a steel skillet instead of the cast iron one. I carried coffee, tea, bacon, eggs, spices, jerky, tobacco, flour and all our duffle. God only knows what it weighed. I probably couldn't pick it up now, much less carry the canoe.
You boys have renewed my interest. Now is the time to get planning for a spring trip.
The smell of a balsom bed, fresh coffee in the pot, bacon sizzling. Life is good.

The Hermit

mechanic · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2012, 02:54:27 PM »

Now you've gone and made me want to weigh my pack and inventory my stuff. I'll do that later...........

Ben

evidrine · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2012, 04:48:31 PM »

This is a very interesting thread. Lots of good info and ideas mentioned here. I hope you guys keep it going!

powderman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2012, 02:56:22 PM »

When camping as a kid we carried a pack, blanket, and rifle. Everything we needed was in that boy scout back pk and rolled up blanket. I remember Mom breaking eggs into an olive jar so they wouldn't break. They seperate and pour out 1 at a time. One time I camped with a friend and fried some pork chops and made gravy. He loved the gravy and said that he had never had milk gravy before. I realized how really blessed I was. A friend gave me an ICC RR lantern so we wouldn't knock the lamp over and cause a fire, I still have it. POWDERMAN.

mannyrock · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2012, 05:01:31 AM »

Modern folks are, in my opinion, just plain woosies.

Confederate soldiers lived outdoors the entire year around, even in the snow, with no tents. Temperatures in VA in the winter routinely plunges down into the teens.

They carried everything they needed in a wool blanket and rubber ground sheet, wrapped in a long roll and carried around one shoulder. Besides that, they generally carried a haversack, obtained from a dead Yank. At night they would prop themselves against a tree, with the rubber groundsheet on top of them, held up by a single stick to make a tiny tepee. On average, these soldiers only weighed about 135 pounds, and they routinely marched 20 miles in a day, very often barefoot. Many did this for four years.

The Yanks were basically just as tough. Outside all year round. Their "luxery" was that each man had a sheet of canvass with snaps on it. Three solders would get together, and snap their pieces into a pup tent, with the two sloped sides and one piece on the back. The front was open. Since they each carried a wool blanket, one of the blankets was thrown over the front entrance to keep out the wind. The three soldiers would then sleep side by side, with the other two wool blankets on top of them. The same three would also carry a make shift cook set, one guy carrying a small frying pan, one guy carrying a small hang pot, and one guy carrying a small coffee pot. Their other luxery was that unlike the Rebs, they always had a good pair of boots.

On top of all of these, the soldiers on both sides carried a Sprinfield or Enfield Musket, which weighted about 12 pounds, plus lots of .68 caliberlead mini-balls and powder.

So all of these survivalist guys, who think they are so tough, should see if they could make it in the outdoors with this type of gear for a month or so. Hearing that people stay out "3 days" with their minimalist packs justs makes me laugh.

Mannyrock

scootrd · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2012, 05:30:38 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on January 23, 2012, 05:01:31 AM

Modern folks are, in my opinion, just plain woosies.

Confederate soldiers lived outdoors the entire year around, even in the snow, with no tents. Temperatures in VA in the winter routinely plunges down into the teens.

They carried everything they needed in a wool blanket and rubber ground sheet, wrapped in a long roll and carried around one shoulder. Besides that, they generally carried a haversack, obtained from a dead Yank. At night they would prop themselves against a tree, with the rubber groundsheet on top of them, held up by a single stick to make a tiny tepee. On average, these soldiers only weighed about 135 pounds, and they routinely marched 20 miles in a day, very often barefoot. Many did this for four years.

The Yanks were basically just as tough. Outside all year round. Their "luxery" was that each man had a sheet of canvass with snaps on it. Three solders would get together, and snap their pieces into a pup tent, with the two sloped sides and one piece on the back. The front was open. Since they each carried a wool blanket, one of the blankets was thrown over the front entrance to keep out the wind. The three soldiers would then sleep side by side, with the other two wool blankets on top of them. The same three would also carry a make shift cook set, one guy carrying a small frying pan, one guy carrying a small hang pot, and one guy carrying a small coffee pot. Their other luxery was that unlike the Rebs, they always had a good pair of boots.

On top of all of these, the soldiers on both sides carried a Sprinfield or Enfield Musket, which weighted about 12 pounds, plus lots of .68 caliberlead mini-balls and powder.

So all of these survivalist guys, who think they are so tough, should see if they could make it in the outdoors with this type of gear for a month or so. Hearing that people stay out "3 days" with their minimalist packs justs makes me laugh.

Mannyrock

Manny ,
I agree , them boys were tough.
and at my age you can now count me in the wussy club nowadays.
Could I do it probably in survival situation. I have absolutely no doubt.
Do I want to? Absolutely not .

I have noticed the older I get if my feet stay warm I'm pretty good.
If my feet get cold , my whole body feels cold, and I become irritable.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2012, 10:38:45 AM »

Military poncho and liner , If you dress correctly you won't need alot of extra clothes but socks and underware might be nice. In many places a scope is not nessary. Rifles can be very lite if you for go the big rounds . Water , filter and freeze dried food are nice onlt tote enough. A 25 foot section of braided fishing line , few hooks and a sinker would be good for a few meals in some places. Of course matches and lighter . Also some cotton balls and vasiline in the small(lite) tube. Alum mess kit and a hobo case knife in the pocket.

powderman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2012, 04:44:34 PM »

MANNYROCK. Good post, and thanks for the great info. We visited a CW battlefield site a couple of yrs ago and they showed what the confeds carried, including a small bag of blackeyed peas as a daily ration, and it was no bigger than an old tobacco pouch. I love civil war info. POWDERMAN.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2012, 05:09:29 AM »

Trying to compare to a solider one must consider resupply or taking from those not needing theirs anymore. When on ones own we must consider no help and possible extended time due to weather or accident. Water , food , shelter and then the guns and tools .

evidrine · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2012, 05:25:38 AM »

That is a very good point ShOOTALL!

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2012, 08:37:20 AM »

Even modern soldiers can miss resupply, sleep soaking wet and cold. Been there done that. Much younger then, but could do it again if I "had" to. Kelty's "Noah's Tarp" is a great lightweight shelter (9'). Eventhough heavy, military poncho's are pretty hard to beat. A wool blanket fit between the poncho and poncho liner, makes a pretty snug nest for sleeping.

powderman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2012, 09:58:21 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 24, 2012, 05:09:29 AM

Trying to compare to a solider one must consider resupply or taking from those not needing theirs anymore. When on ones own we must consider no help and possible extended time due to weather or accident. Water , food , shelter and then the guns and tools .

SHOOTALL. Good point and rarely thought of. You hardly ever see a movies where soldiers, even civilians, retrieve guns, ammo, water, etc from the dead. I used to say, get their stuff after seeing a movie battle, now my wife says it. Get the guns and ammo dummy. POWDERMAN.

pab1 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2012, 01:25:57 PM »

Quote from: Pat/Rick on January 24, 2012, 08:37:20 AM

Kelty's "Noah's Tarp" is a great lightweight shelter (9').

I have 2 and they are excellent. Compact and very light.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2012, 04:08:16 AM »

When hunting in Canada it was interesting that the game laws pamplet had a advisory to carry survival / emg. stuff. Maybe more states here should advise so.

spooked · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2012, 04:24:12 AM »

Twas said thet that "Johnson" feller weighed only slightly over 130 lb.s and carrying over a 200 lb. pack out hoofed the Mounties,even circled back and spied on them..took 'em some luck an a airplane to finally git their"man"...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2012, 08:59:36 AM »

dag gum planes

WD45 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2012, 07:18:46 AM »

I always tend to look at things and say I don't really need that. Then of course whatever I left at the house I end up needing for some stupid reason or other

.. There are a couple things I am never without though and thats some good waxed dental floss and various size needles and some good para cord. While I have always been on the mimimal side of taking only what you really need I have also found to never say " That could never happen to me " either. I think you can go overboard on each end of the spectrum on what you consider a necessity and a luxury. We read about the Boone's and Kenton's and their exploits BUT how many do we not read about that DIED trying to be a Boone or Kenton. I also wonder about some of these people that wind up dead on the side of a mountain out west that were out for a hike and got stuck or lost in a storm of somekind. What kind of equipment did they have with them if any at all ? Now I'm not saying that you have to a string of pack mules full of equipment to go anywhere by any means. I does make one think though doesn't it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:53:45 AM »

one place to not skimp is on experince and common sense . Pack your brain full of good info. and try to experince as much as possible before putting your life on the line. The most important experince a outdoor person can aquire is knowing when not to put themselves in bad situations.

WD45 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:14:31 PM »

Got to agree with ya 100 % on that shootall. People get complaciant though and that day hike or pack trip that they have done 100 times without a hitch suddenly turns into a nightmare.

mannyrock · « **Reply #28 on:** February 07, 2012, 05:34:48 AM »

Yea, people get real complacent.

My girlfriend likes to go on short hikes, mostly in places where there are lots and lots of people on clearly marked trails, in Parks.

She is new to the Shendandoah Valley and the Blue Ridge mountains where I live.

She got the idea last month that she wanted to go on a short 5 mile hike, on a trail in the National Forest, on the side of Massanutten Mountain. Neither of us have ever been up there before.

The day she wanted to hike, it was only 45 degrees, with a heavy wind blowing. There was ice on the ground in places.

I agreed to go, but ONLY after I had gotten out a day pack, and very carefully packed matches, lighter, fire starter, compass, jump cord, candle, water bottle, space blanket, first aid kit, sheath knife, some energy bars, and plastic poncho.

She was totallly PO'd with me. Said I was totally overreacting and wasting her time.

When we got up on that trail, there was NOBODY around. Guess not, since it was the middle of winter. It was very steep, with lots of softballs sized rocks and small boulders in the trail, covered with ice.

When we got up there, she finally said, "Well, I guess it was good that you brought all that stuff."

I said, "Yea, because if you break your leg up[ here and I didn't have this stuff, you would probably die of exposure."

Nuff said.

Mannyrock

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #29 on:** February 07, 2012, 06:25:57 AM »

I've been leaving more stuff behind every year. Clothing most of all, down to what I wear in and something to wear out, or change into if wet. Backpacker size mummy bag, and a self inflating sleeping pad. Double Mackinaw wool coat, Wool hat and gloves as well as a pair of leather gloves, breathable waterproof coat and pants, Polar tech underwear and a pair of quilted underwear, three pairs of wool socks, and a pair of 400gr goretex hunting boots.

Cordage, compass, GPS (maybe), Surefire P6 led and an extra set of batteries. Matches, lighter, sparker and tinder, as well as a small folding knife go together in a ziplock bag. A couple bandaides, Ace bandage, gauze pads, super glue, neosporin, eyedrops, Motrin, aspirin, and Vicodin make up another ziplock bag. 4 game bags, flagging tape, ten rounds of ammo, and tags go into a third ziplock bag. All of the above is packed into one 1gallon ziplock bag. This kit is thrown into whatever day pack I need. Colder than billy hell means I will be carrying clothes and a 2600cu pack goes on my back. Simply cool and I'll take a 1600 cu pack. I rarely leave camp with out the rain gear, and the Camelbak full of water, and a handful of granola bars. I top this off with a hatchet usually or at times with a saw. The water is the heavy part and I keep thinking about a simple filter to carry instead, but I'm not sure I trust them

I should but don't.

Most everything in my daypack is for use if I get stupid. I always look at all the med stuff and fire starter stuff and want to leave it behind. The raingear is usually useless as well. I hardly trust the GPS as a sole means of orienteering and might as well leave it behind too. All the above is comforting so it comes along.