Early BUCK knives... (again)

[cwlongshot]

Morning fellas!
 
I have been continuing my search for early BUCK knives. I picked up a 118, 105 this summer. Mostly interested in straight knives. I am wondering about disco models I may not know about.
 
I had a M121 years ago and finally located a replacement and thought I had all of them I wanted... (Still wanting a 124 but having a hard time justifying the $$ just for a paper weight)
Any ideas on finding a 124 without remortgaging the house?
 
The little Buck caper, M116 when was this discontinued? Whats a real cost/value? (STD Blk handled version) I think I NEED one!
 
I ran across some writings on a M122 possibly a divers knife. Was this a real model?
 
Lastly, I know the Omni is a new and not so desireable, but I have a Vanguard that I do really like and the looks of the Omni are attractive to me. (I just ordered one) Is the steel really that bad?
 
So my real question, is there any other not so common models I should know about? 
 
 
CW

[Joel]

Like many out of the box factory knives, the initial edges can usually be improved.  Buck's 420HC steel is a replacement for their old 425M that I think was only used in any quantity by them; and it acts pretty much the same.  I've an old Vanguard in that steel, and my daily carry is the Quicklock in 420HC, and I can't see any difference. The Quicklock is hardly a super steel knife, but the edge holding is better than any stainless Case or Gerber I've used.   A lot of people don't take edge and blade geometry into account when discussing edge holding.  The Omni is a thick bladed knife and with that grind can't really achieve a "scapel" like edge except when first sharpened.  The combination of that thick steel and a fairly small edge/wide bevel make that pretty much a given.  If you were to take that Omni and remove a lot of the steel directly above the edge so it's thinner it would greatly improve both cutting ability and edge holding.  I've done that with the one or two thick bladed knives I've owned and it works.  Knives are all about Physics; take a thick and a thin piece of steel and sharpen them to the same angle and the thicker pieces will require more "energy" to cut with than the thinner blade.  The less force you use to move the edge through a material, the longer the edge lasts(assuming of course it's the same steel hardness and bevel angle).  The actual cutting "edge" of your everyday knife blade(the part that does the actual cutting) is only, on the average,  1 to 3 microns wide; therefore less force equals longer retention of that tiny point.
I've often read about some cheap steeled, poorly designed blade doing a seemingly endless number of deer(and at a much cheaper price than them danged custom knives) and still ending up "shaving sharp".  Bull. 

[charles p]

When I started hunting in the 60's, people carried straight Buck knives, a few Case and a few Kabar.  I had a black handle Buck.  Don't know what ever became of it but I remember that I could not put an edge on it.  Steel was very hard I think.  I still have the Case.  I now sharpen all my knives on an F.Dick spring steel device and it will keep a sharp knife very sharp.  I expect it would keep and edge on that troublesome old Buck I must have given away.
I sure wish I knew enough about steel to know what I have and what I like.  At the dock when I help the professional fish cleaners, we use Dexter Russel knives and they resharpen easily on the F.Dick hypersteel device.

[Joel]

Back then, Buck was using 440C with a really hard temper.  I've a 110 folder that my dad gave me as I was leaving for 'Nam and it was the same way; a pure bear to try and sharpen in the field.

[kyelkhunter3006]

CW, it's about impossible to find a good price on a 124.  I had one and sold it years ago, and I'm still kicking myself for it.  I keep checking the big auction site, but it's not going to happen, not at a price point I am willing to pay, anyway.  For what they are selling for, unless it was the last piece I needed to finish a collection off, I'd spend it on a custom.

The only diver's knife I know about is the 185, which is a version of the 184 Buckmaster, but instead of the hollow handle, it's a full tang handle with a coating on it.  They're going for big $$ too.

Honestly, Buck's 420HC is a good value.  It's not a premier steel, but it's still heat treated by Bos to an average hardness of 59RC, which makes it perform much better than you think it would.  Most other companies run their 420HC in the 55-57RC range, and you can definitely tell the difference. 

[cwlongshot]

The little Buck caper, M116 when was this discontinued? Whats a real cost/value? (STD Blk handled version) I think I NEED one!
 
 
CW

I watched one on eBay last night go for $140!!!!!  It was complete with box and papers but really!?! It was not real old not super clean. It was very nice. It had been sharpened so likely used at least some.

I would have gone $75.. Maybe.

I would love some more info on this model if anyone is so inclined.

CW
 
PS; I got my OMNI today, Its feels nice, but I have a large hand and to me the grip is small and rather slippery. I do like the blade style and if I choke up on it as if I was doing careful cutting it is nice...
I also just picked up a 113 tonight, good price I think $40. I see them going for $60-80. Any opinions on them?

[cwlongshot]

I won top bid in an auction Saturday and got a very nice 116. Very clean sheath no box or papers. That's fine with me as I like to collect/have and will use the knife. If it was used or sharpened the PO did a  nice job and cared for the blade.

Now about the 113, no one knows about it or has one to comment about it? I was able to handle one Saturday and it seemed very solid. Sheath was leather but machine made of sub quality leather but completely serviceable and far nicer than the ballistic nylon crap so many knives get today.
 




Merry Christmas ,
CW

[txray22]

I just checked out a new 105 pathfinder at the knife store.  It looks different than my old one.  The little woodsman didn't look anything like I remember, but it's been a long time since I handled one. 
 
Phil