Huntsman receiver

[OldSchoolRanger]

Just recently we had a discussion started by ironglow, on the strength of a Versa Pack receiver and if it was built with the same strength as a SB1 receiver (did it have the strength to handle the same barrels that a SB1 receiver could?). 

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,244542.0.html

Unfortunately the question was never really answered. 

I now have a question regarding the Huntsman receiver, (not the "AL" prefix, 1976 manufactured, .45 Cal Huntsman).  I know that H&R won't fit barrels to them, but;
Is this receiver strong enough to be used with shotgun and pistol caliber barrels? Please state the reason for your opinion and why you believe so.  Thanks in advance for all responses.

[ibgp3]

I recently asked a similar question:
   The numbers tell me that a 357Max at 50,000 PSI has less breech thrust than a 12Ga at 11,000 psi.
   Does that mean that the max is as safe in an SB1 receiver as the .357 mag (and the 12Ga)?
It seems like the factory would put .223's and Hornets on the SB1 receivers if that were all there was to it.
Maybe the 300 whisper blackout will come on SB1's

[cwlongshot]

Pardon my "tone" as I worry every time a thread like this happens. I do not understand pushing the envelope so to speak. I say why? We know what's safe, we know what works. These things are affordable and readily available. To my mind, there is no good reason to chance it.

There are a numer of threads on this. Most recent is the one you reference. Tim has stated numerous times of early cast rec per SB1. Current SB1 and stronger SB2 receivers. Remember to watch firing pin sizes for SB1's if CF loadings are to be used.

It sounds to me like you want irreputable iron clad facts. What we have given is our opinions, you need more. No one here can do that ceptin' the factory and I seriously doubt they will tell you for lyabilitys. The stand will be the gun is safe as delivered. You modify your on your own. The Versa Pak comes with a 22RF and a 410. The huntsman is a blk powder, likely same as early cast or current SB1 frames. If you want a 12 or a 44 buy a SB1 or Better yet SB2 and don't worry.

The consensus here is SB1 is fine for a 40k cup caliber, all shotgun and blk powder barrels. SB2 for ALL calibers. YES the Maxi is safe on a SB1 as long as you safely load for it at factory levels. My my first MAX came on a Topper 158 frame.

If these opinions are not to anyone's satisfaction contact the manufacturer. Brian is on here all the time PM him for the info. BUT know that in today's world it may well be filtered thru a lawyer so take it as given free info.

As I have stated in all such threads I have commented. The versa pal frame is a bit of a mystery. I have no desire to be a static. With all the easy availability to frames of known rely ability and safety WHY chance it. Before someone comments about not having $$ to do that. I say how much value do you put on your eyes, face hands or even life! I know mine is irreplace able to my family and myself.
I am not saying it will blow up, what I am saying is we do not know so why chance it! Everyone assumes its like a SB1 and for the most part, I agree. But I am not willing to prove that.

Merry Christmas,

CW

[quickdtoo]

Well stated CW, thanks! 

Tim

[ibgp3]

I'm with CW, overloaded firearms are just another kind of IED.
Doing something like that to yourself,....well, dumb seems like an understatement.
I'm just wondering which lines were drawn by engineers and which were drawn by lawyers.
Believe me, there is a big difference between wondering and testing.


Thanks
  GP

[trotterlg]

Can anyone in the free world produce a picture of a failed H&R frame of any flavor?  Stories like "a friend of my Wifes third cousin knew a guy who said.........." don't count.  Larry

[gendoc]

larry, there isa guy here that had a sb2 fail on him and suffered damage to his hands.
can't remember his name, but i think he put up some pictures. maybe he or someone will
show up soon

[quickdtoo]

larry, there isa guy here that had a sb2 fail on him and suffered damage to his hands.
can't remember his name, but i think he put up some pictures. maybe he or someone will
show up soon

That wasn't a frame failure, it was a barrel failure due to a handloading error, most likely an over charge. CW had one too, it blew the trigger guard out, frame was fine.

Tim


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,237212.msg1099343551.html#msg1099343551

The police and game commission don't think it was an obstruction, they say the barrel would have split at the obstruction and not the whole barrel. My opinion is a double charge, 56g of A5744. Although this is an over charge, not a double. The people investigating are experienced. The elusive "detonation" is the top choice so far. I am still missing a finger and a firearm. I was told a bolt gun would not have exploded??? An opinion.

I was told a bolt gun would not have exploded???

They need to get out more! 

Tim

[gendoc]

thanks tim for straight'n me out  

[trotterlg]

The only thing I have ever seen close to a frame failure was a crack around the fireing pin.  I am sure that an exploding barrel would damage the frame some, but I have never seen or heard of the frame failure being the cause of an accident.  Not that it can't happen, but with all the science experments going on with these rifles it seems unlikely.  Same way with an under lug failure, never have seen one sheared off.  Larry

[ibgp3]

This is a bolt gun.


Bolt and magazine laying on the table,


Magazine well showing by the trigger guard


.


Added: OK, I guess everyone else had read the original article and knew this was a picture of a blown up Bolt gun used to show that they blow up too. In this article it seemed to be presented as a picture of a blown up Handi.
  GP

[bikerbeans]

There is (was?) a video on youtube of a SB1 failing when a CF rifle round was fired.  Firing pin blew out and took out the scope.  IIRC there was a link in the FAQs about this also.  This gun was remotely fired so maybe it had a hot load to facilitate the nice video image?  I get bored tomorrow I will try to search and find it. 
 
BB

[Hit or Miss]

I do have to say that I've never seen a rifle in that many pieces before!  I also saw some nice pics of a brand new Beretta shotgun, 9 rounds of slugs fired, that blew a big hole in the barrel about 3/4ths of the way down the forward grip.  A stuck sabot is the suspected culprit from factory rounds.

[ratdog]

i can't believe  the guy who shot that gun only lost a finger talk about lucky.

[quickdtoo]

Added: OK, I guess everyone else had read the original article and knew this was a picture of a blown up Bolt gun used to show that they blow up too. In this article it seemed to be presented as a picture of a blown up Handi.
  GP

Sorry, no, it wasn't, read the quote just above the pic of the destroyed bolt gun that's from jgdykeman's original discussion. I've never seens a blown up Handi either, but have seen lots of blown up bolt guns and even a blown up Contender.

Tim


http://cdk357.tripod.com/444blowup.html

[Duckdog]

Unless I missed it, I still don't think his orignal question was answered.  Wasn't he asking if a Huntsman reciever is comparable to a SB1?  I personally don't know, but it sure looks the same, as I have both.  Trying to get info from the mothership is difficult, at best.  In fact, I kind of quit trying.
 
My advice would be to buy a 12 ga shotgun, or whatever ga you want, then fit your pistol caliber barrels, if you want to suffer through the barrel program.

[quickdtoo]

I just recollected this.....  Modern Huntsman frames are SB1, some are even SB2 in the case of the centerfire rifle combos, here's a previous discussion on it.

Tim


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,221894.msg1099214761.html#msg1099214761

   CW, you are correct, if the Huntsman has been registered with form #4473 with the BATF.  What I was saying is that with out the #4473 form, we can only fit muzzle loader barrels to a Huntsman frame. The Huntsman is not a legal firearm unless it is registered with the BATF. So anyone sending in a Huntsman frame for other than muzzle loader barrels must also send a copy of their BATF registration or we will refuse to install other barrels for legal reasons.


                                                                                                                      Brian@Remington:

[Duckdog]

Nice!  Now that explains a lot.  I saw that on the mothership's website, but never really understood what they were driving at.  Now I do.  Thanks!

[cwlongshot]

Nice!  Now that explains a lot.  I saw that on the mothership's website, but never really understood what they were driving at.  Now I do.  Thanks!

(Concerning Tim's Quote) Back then, I went round and round with Brian on this one.... I STILL don't think he gets it... his hands are tied with lawyers who have even less of an understanding of the BATF regs than your average shooter. I understand this so gave him the benefit of the doubt concerning it. If the factory does not want to fit any other barrels to a Huntsman receiver than they should say that and NOT buy in the legal nonsense speak...
 
While you are entitled to a copy of the form 4473, I doubt anyone reading this has asked for a copy! If you go back to your dealer and ask for one from a previous sale be prepared for stupid looks, smart ass-ed comments and LONG waits... The manufacturer is idiotic to ask owners to provide this form!!! Huntsman's are of the EXACT dimensions as SB1/SB2 receivers and there for REQUIRED the form 4473 to be filled out. IF someone did not the DEALER was at fault, you should have. NO ARGUMENT, this is FACT! Now if you have a SIDEKICK, that form is NOT required as its receiver was only ever offered as a Black powder gun. (In confusion many dealers asked consumers to fill out the form for this too. This is a lack of knowledge and simply CYA for that dealer.) Now, it's NOT up to you to know this its BATF regulations and are required of the FFL dealer to know and follow.
 
CW

[trotterlg]

If you look at the rear of a Huntsman receiver it looks like a cross between a SB1 and SB2 with a partial cutout around the stock mounting hole.  Larry

[OldSchoolRanger]

I just recollected this.....  Modern Huntsman frames are SB1, some are even SB2 in the case of the centerfire rifle combos, here's a previous discussion on it.

Tim


http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,221894.msg1099214761.html#msg1099214761

   CW, you are correct, if the Huntsman has been registered with form #4473 with the BATF.  What I was saying is that with out the #4473 form, we can only fit muzzle loader barrels to a Huntsman frame. The Huntsman is not a legal firearm unless it is registered with the BATF. So anyone sending in a Huntsman frame for other than muzzle loader barrels must also send a copy of their BATF registration or we will refuse to install other barrels for legal reasons.


                                                                                                                      Brian@Remington:

CW, Quick, trotterlg, and everyone else.  My question wasn't a result of trying to save a few dollars on a new frame. I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have. 

Thanks for taking part in this discussion, and providing the information regarding the Huntsman basically being a SB1 receiver, I knew I read it somewhere, but, I couldn't recall where.  Worst of all, I wasn't even sure that I read it here (GBO) regarding the Huntsman receiver being a SB1.

Now, if only the question regarding the Versa pack receiver can be resolved as easily.  I guess one out of two isn't so bad.   Thanks again guys.

[trotterlg]

I would say the Versa Pack frame is a SB1 with a small fireing pin hole.  There is no reason they would make a special run of frames just for that setup, it has a small fireing pin so that it doesn't cause rim failures on the RF it shoots.  Larry