Author Topic: Hornady .358 200Gr FTX in 35 Whelen & .358 Winchester Questions (Read 3279 times)

JesterGrin · « **on:** December 11, 2011, 11:53:09 AM »

I thought of Trying the Hornady .358 200Gr FTX in my 35 Whelen as well as my 358 Winchester. Hornady informed me the speed range of which these two calibers could push that bullet would be within the Dependable speed range of that bullet.

I purchased some of the Hornady .358 200GR FTX due to the better BC between it and the Hornady 200Gr SP.

The BC of the Hornady .358 200GR FTX is .300
The BC of the Hornady .358 200Gr SP is . 282

Any thoughts? I have TAC and RL-15 and of course 3031

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:01:04 PM »

Simply put, its designed for 35 REM velocities and the Whelen and Winchester will push it too fast...At top velocities it will likely be a varmint bullet.

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:07:06 PM »

The muzzle velocity range for the 200gr FTX is listed as 1800-2600fps in the Hornady 8th manual, the 200gr SP InterLock is listed as 1800-2900fps.

Tim

JesterGrin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:18:52 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on December 11, 2011, 12:07:06 PM

The muzzle velocity range for the 200gr FTX is listed as 1800-2600fps in the Hornady 8th manual, the 200gr SP InterLock is listed as 1800-2900fps.

Tim

Ok but even if I go nuts and push the bullet to say 2775 this is at the Muzzle. So at 100 yards plus the bullet will be in its acceptable speed range for dependable expansion.

As I said when I asked Hornady in an E Mail they informed me that the Hornady 358 200Gr FTX will work fine for the speed range of the 358 Winchester and the 35 Whelen as I do not plan to shoot anything at point blank range.

A close shot where I hunt would be right at 100 yards.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:27:58 PM »

They list muzzle velocity ranges, not impact velocity, the manual lists it to 2600fps in their 358 Win data and to 2650fps in the 35 Whelen data.

Tim

JesterGrin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:31:14 PM »

This is from Hornady External Ballistics .

Muzzle is 2775 50 yards is 2624 100 yards is 2478 200 yards is 2200 300 yards 1940 400 yards 1701.

Energy FT. LB at Muzzle 3420 and at 400 yards it will still have 1284.

With a 200 yards Zero I can be +2.1 at 100 yards and dead on at 200 with 2149 FT.LB

JesterGrin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:35:20 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on December 11, 2011, 12:27:58 PM

They list muzzle velocity ranges, not impact velocity, the manual lists it to 2600fps in their 358 Win data and to 2650fps in the 35 Whelen data.

Tim

Tim Maybe I said it wrong lol. When I contacted Hornady about the FTX I informed them at what range it would hit a target which would be a Deer or a Hog. And they informed me it would work fine at 50 yards and beyound.

What I am trying to find out is if anyone else has tried these bullets in there 35 Whelen or 358 Winchester and what they found as for a good powder and accuracy from the design. I know it will work on game.

This bullet can also be used in the .356 Winchester which is pretty much a 358 Winchester in ballistics. Even though in a Bolt gun the .358 Winchester can be pushed harder.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #7 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:37:41 PM »

Quote from: JesterGrin on December 11, 2011, 12:31:14 PM

This is from Hornady External Ballistics .

Muzzle is 2775 50 yards is 2624 100 yards is 2478 200 yards is 2200 300 yards 1940 400 yards 1701.

Energy FT. LB at Muzzle 3420 and at 400 yards it will still have 1284.

With a 200 yards Zero I can be +2.1 at 100 yards and dead on at 200 with 2149 FT.LB

Try it and see...

I personally like the 200 Hornady I have shot it in both my 358 and my Whelen. In the Whelen I an getting near 3000fps and good results on Whitetails. (Mine is almost a 27" barrel) The 358 was Thor's hammer on them at about 2500 fps with 4320 powder!!!

I have used the 35 cal 200 FTX in my Maxi on one deer and it expanded nicely. MV just over 2000fps.

In my experience with 3-4 FTX bullets they are fragile. The 160g in the 30-30 over expanded, piece exiting. The 200g 45 cal from my 454 violently expanded on a coyote ribs hit and the 200 FTX expanded well at 2000. Its the only one to work as intended, IMHO.

CW

JesterGrin · « **Reply #8 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:44:39 PM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on December 11, 2011, 12:37:41 PM

Quote from: JesterGrin on December 11, 2011, 12:31:14 PM
This is from Hornady External Ballistics .

Muzzle is 2775 50 yards is 2624 100 yards is 2478 200 yards is 2200 300 yards 1940 400 yards 1701.

Energy FT. LB at Muzzle 3420 and at 400 yards it will still have 1284.

With a 200 yards Zero I can be +2.1 at 100 yards and dead on at 200 with 2149 FT.LB

Try it and see...

I personally like the 200 Hornady I have shot it in both my 358 and my Whelen. In the Whelen I an getting near 3000fps and good results on Whitetails. (Mine is almost a 27" barrel) The 358 was Thor's hammer on them at about 2500 fps with 4320 powder!!!

I have used the 35 cal 200 FTX in my Maxi on one deer and it expanded nicely. MV just over 2000fps.

In my experience with 3-4 FTX bullets they are fragile. The 160g in the 30-30 over expanded, piece exiting. The 200g 45 cal from my 454 violently expanded on a coyote ribs hit and the 200 FTX expanded well at 2000. Its the only one to work as intended, IMHO.

CW

Are you talking about the 200Gr FTX or the 200Gr SP?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2011, 12:59:39 PM »

200g Hornady is the std SP Hornady, while the 200 FTX is the well

200 FTX.

I have been shooting the 200Gr Hornady STD for many years in the 358 WINCHESTER!
CW

JesterGrin · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:06:48 PM »

Okay. So I guess the 358 200Gr FTX will be an experiment then lol.

roper · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:55:45 AM »

Quote from: JesterGrin on December 11, 2011, 01:06:48 PM

Okay. So I guess the 358 200Gr FTX will be an experiment then lol.

Hornady 200gr FTX bullet guide has 1800/2600fps velocity range and I would load to that max velocity vs their other 200gr 1800/2900fps velocity range. Hornady max velocity from their manual #8 with all 200gr bullets for the 35 win is 2600fps and max for the 35 Whelen is 2650fps.

Myself I won't load past the 2600fps with the 200gr FTX why chance it.

336SC · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2011, 02:37:45 PM »

The extra speed out of the .358 Win WILL NOT turn the .35 caliber 200gr FTX bullet into a "varmint bullet"!! I've shot deer with them
with impact energy exceeding 2000 ft/lbs and they did not blow up or fragment. Just straight line penetration and a nice half dollar size
exit holes, and very dead deer right now. The FTX bullets are not the "Holy Grail", but they shouldn't be getting the bum rap they seem
to be getting. Give it a go Jester Grin and see what happens.
336SC

JesterGrin · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2011, 03:35:25 PM »

336 I am glad you jumped in on this thread.

What do you think between RL-15,3031 and TAC?

Sorry I forgot I also have H-322

336SC · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2011, 01:43:45 AM »

I've used IMR3031, TAC, and H322 in my .358's (3 of them). I use RL-15 in my .35 Whelens but have not used it yet in the .358's. As to the powders I do use in the .358 Win, H322 has given me substantial velocity with superb accuracy. IMR3031 was not lacking in the
velocity department or accuracy, just not as accurate as H322. TAC has been the absolute top velocity champion with both 200gr and
250gr bullets. I have gotten 2671fps with the 200gr HDY RN and 2404fps with the 250gr HDY RN in my .358 Ruger Hawkeye. Those velocities with TAC exceed the factory velocities in my .35 Whelens. Accuracy with TAC in the .358 Ruger was good, but the thump
on my shoulder told me to back off a bit in that light Ruger Hawkeye. I also don't need that much thump to kill a deer.
336SC

cwlongshot · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2011, 02:04:35 AM »

I agree RL15 is a top power in the Whelen. With the 200g spitzer I get top vel with 2520powder a chrono graphed 2900+.

In my 358s I have been using 4320 and 335. (322 is quite close) but 4320 is my favorite. In my BLR the muzzle really jumps with 2600 fps so I load it back under 2500. I have never seen deer killed faster. I mean never! I wish there was a method to " download" a minds eye view of things. One buck shot with the BLR was hit hi shoulder at 40-50 yards. His body remained stationary he sucked up his leggs in mid air and dropped on his brisket. As if slow motion stretched out his neck and put his head down and rolled on his side motionless. That deer was dead in mid air!

Again I have used a number of different FTX bullets and so far all have been fragile. ( similar to how the Nosler Ballistic tip is fragile compared to std bullet) this far I have killed one deer with the 200FTX from my maxi. (35 rem ballistics) and its performance was what you would expect. BUT that was at 2000fps.... I still say its gonna be fragile and problems are likely on big bones at higher velocities. At my top Whelen velocities all but guaranty it would be like a varmint bullet.

336SC,
I would be conserved at the 200RN at 2600+ too. How has that worked for you? I shot one deer with one from my 358 and only shrapnel exited. But I do shoot bones, a long shot for us is 150.

CW

Dave in WV · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:54:11 PM »

I load 50gr of IMR 4895 and FTX bullets in my 350 mag for around 2250fps. I haven't got a deer with it yet but the load should be inside the performance envelope for the FTX. The load is quite accurate.

336SC · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2011, 01:57:27 PM »

cwlongshot,
I've shot all my deer with the 200gr RN, both HDY & RPCL, in my .358's. Velocities were @ 2500fps and never recovered a bullet or a piece of one as they all exited so far on the 15 deer taken. I've relegated my .35 caliber pointed bullets (except for the 200gr FTX) to my
.35 Whelens and my .350 Rem Mag. Hornady's performance parameters for both the 200gr RN and pointed bullet are: 1800fps to 2800
fps per an e-mail from them. I'm not a shoulder shooter as I like the sweet spot just behind the shoulder and just slightly higher than mid body. Seems to uncork every nerve ending in their body and it's instant lights out. I agree with you about absolutely the quickest
kills using .35 caliber rifles. It is truely amazing to see and those who have never used a .35 caliber cartridge for deer just don't believe it.
336SC

RevJim · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2011, 06:53:02 AM »

I got an even 2600fps with 49gr 3031 and the 200gr Remington PSPCL out of my BLR 358 just a month ago. I don't think 2600 is going to mess up an FTX at the ranges you mentioned. Go for it!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2011, 07:25:10 AM »

That's good to know 336SC!!

I have long liked Hornadys line of RN bullets. But as mentioned was skeptible because of the lower pressures and velocities the 35 Rem runs at. The 250g is another good bullet but I feel even the 358 doesn't quite has case cap to get it going for anything but shorter ranges. I very much like it from my Whelen at over 2600! ( Again I have a long barrel! )

CW

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2011, 03:03:20 AM »

As well as the 35 Rem works, I don't see any reason to load the 358 "balls to the wall". I've only taken game with the FTX in the 35 rem, but it has been pass thru's and dead deer each time. The 358 and 35 Whelen shoot flat enough to hold on hair farther than most people should be shooting in the field anyway. JMHO. DP

JesterGrin · « **Reply #21 on:** December 15, 2011, 09:16:41 AM »

The norm for my shots in South TEXAS run between 100 and 250 yards.

I hope to take a Deer this year with my 35 Whelen with the 250Gr Hot-Core. If it stops raining before the end of Deer Season. Do not get me wrong though we need the Rain BAD. I have taken one Hog at 125 yards which it did a great Job.

I probably will not have my 358 Winchester back till Deer season is over so I will have to regulate it for HOG till next year.

donkey445 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2012, 06:34:21 AM »

My brother used the 200gr FTX in his .338 Federal this year. He took both a blacktail deer and his friend shot an elk with it (using his gun and load). Performance was similar to a Nosler Ballistic Tip. The bullet got complete penetration on boiler room shots on both. On the elk it hit one rib going in and punched through a portion of the offiside shoulder and exited (bullet didn't break the shoulder just clipped part of it). Exit hole was about the size of a quarter. I can't complain about performance the FTX gave. The deer was shot at 60 yards the elk at 165 or so. Personally I would look for a better bullet, but it works for him.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2012, 11:15:31 AM »

Thanks for the report Donkey!!!

I am building a 356 and it would be nice if this FTX bullet worked as we want and as your two animals! I will try some once I get going with it!

CW