Shotgun Layman looking for an education. 16 Gauge

[scootrd]

I was feeling a bit nostalgic today thinking about my dad.
My father was a big Bird hunter , Pheasant, ducks, geese, turkey , dove etc.. I use to hunt with him as a small boy acting more as spotter than anything else (He just enjoyed taking me along and introducing me to bird hunting, and gave me the job as spotter so I could feel I was fulfilling a very important role in the hunt  .  Great memories!!!

After he passed away I have never pursued bird hunting on my own.

As a layman,  Thinking back I seem to recall some of my dads prized shotguns were of the 16 gauge variety.
Where has the 16 Gauge gone too. Are manufacturers still producing? if not why?

[streak]

scootrd,
Sixteen gauges are a somewhat rare gun these days although there are plenty out there to purchase if you want to shell out the bucks for a good one!
 I fell heir to my Grandpa`s Win mod 37 sixteen gauge that my daddy had before he passed away. After my mother passed away I got the 16 gauge which had probably not been fired two to three times! The gun was in pristine condition. I just got back from a hunting trip in E.Texas where one of the guns I had was the Win and the first shot a live target was a wood duck, missed - second shot at another wood duck, duck in the bag!! My daddy had a Browning "Sweet Sixteen" which I used for squirrel and   quail hunting! It was deadly on both of them! Unfortunately the " Sweet Sixteen" fell into the hands of a nephew of mine whom my daddy had let use it. Probably ended up in some pawn shop for dope money!!
 
Anyway I like the 16 and would like to have a nice double in one!!

[streak]

Scootrd,
Also if you really want alot of 16 gauge info do a search for "The 16 Gauge Society"!!

[curteric]

I bought my Wingmaster, 16ga, for $80, new, a number of years ago.  Last fall I took a number of Pheasants with it. I also used Federal, Paper, shells for my hunts. I really like the 16ga, for it's lack of recoil. I think that the 16 went the way of demand and supply, they stopped selling.
Streak Thank You for the information on the "16 Gauge Society" . I haven't taken the time to really look at the site, but I will.

[scootrd]

Why have they fallen out of favor with MFG's?
What little I understand (and honestly it's not much I readily admit),
The 16 gauge seemed to own the perfect sweet spot in between 12 and 20 gauge.
My dad owned quite a few when I was young.

[spruce]

I think there are 3 reasons for the 16 gauges decline in popularity.
1. It's not used in skeet (like the 28 ga is).
2. The increased popularity of the 3" 20 gauge shell - this narrowed the gap between the 20 ga and the 12 ga.  (Never mind that it doesn't throw nearly as nice patterns as the 16 ga!).
3.  The final straw was when gunmakers quit making the 16 ga on it's own size frame.  Most nowadays are built on a 12 gauge frame which makes the gun heavier than it needs to be.
 
The Browning Sweet 16 was one of the last production guns to be built on a true 16 ga size frame- and it's a great gun.  I have heard the Browning BPS 16 ga is actually built on their 20 ga frame so should be a nice handling gun.
 
Way back in the day of the Parkers, L.C. Smiths, A.H. Foxes and some other grand old doubles ruled the uplands the 16 ga was often called "The Queen of the Uplands" and was the #1 choice of many upland hunters.
I almost forgot - I believe the Ithaca pump is also made in a true 16 ga size.

[streak]

I bought my Wingmaster, 16ga, for $80, new, a number of years ago.  Last fall I took a number of Pheasants with it. I also used Federal, Paper, shells for my hunts. I really like the 16ga, for it's lack of recoil. I think that the 16 went the way of demand and supply, they stopped selling.
Streak Thank You for the information on the "16 Gauge Society" . I haven't taken the time to really look at the site, but I will.

Your welcome!
There is a plethora of info on that sight about the 16 gauge!!

[jlchucker]

I think there are 3 reasons for the 16 gauges decline in popularity.
1. It's not used in skeet (like the 28 ga is).
2. The increased popularity of the 3" 20 gauge shell - this narrowed the gap between the 20 ga and the 12 ga.  (Never mind that it doesn't throw nearly as nice patterns as the 16 ga!).
3.  The final straw was when gunmakers quit making the 16 ga on it's own size frame.  Most nowadays are built on a 12 gauge frame which makes the gun heavier than it needs to be.
 
The Browning Sweet 16 was one of the last production guns to be built on a true 16 ga size frame- and it's a great gun.  I have heard the Browning BPS 16 ga is actually built on their 20 ga frame so should be a nice handling gun.
 
Way back in the day of the Parkers, L.C. Smiths, A.H. Foxes and some other grand old doubles ruled the uplands the 16 ga was often called "The Queen of the Uplands" and was the #1 choice of many upland hunters.
I almost forgot - I believe the Ithaca pump is also made in a true 16 ga size.

All true.  But you forgot to mention that for years the writers of the gunrags read by the average man ignored the 16 ga.  The masses weren't spoon-fed monthly articles on the 16 like they were (and still are) about the 12 and 20.  None of the tacticool propaganda being put out nowadays even mentions the 16 as a home defense possibility either.

[spruce]

jlchucker - good point.
 
I think the writers ignored it mostly because there wasn't anything new for them to field test or write about.  Back in the 60's when the 3" mag 20 gauge craze started there were simply no "proper size" 16 gauges to write about - the Browning being a notable exception (and a few higher-end S/S imports).
In a way, you might say the 16 gauge was a casualty of WWII.  Prior to that the S/S was much in favor.  When the men returned home after the war they wanted repeaters.  After using M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, and BAR's the old double guns seemed dated and archaic to them.  When the gun companies tooled up to meet the increased demand for repeaters the bean counters quickly saw it was much cheaper to just make one frame size (sometimes two) rather than different sizes for each gauge.  And people bought them - by far the most in 12 gauge.  The logic (quite sound I think) was that if the gun was the same size no matter what gauge it came in then why not get the 12 gauge?
 
Sad to say, we're not likely to see any great resurgence in the 16's popularity anytime soon.  I think it's only chance is if manufacturers start producing properly sized guns for it again, but don't hold your breath!

[LHitchcox]

A 16 gauge on a 12 gauge frame is no bargain. You carry the weight of a 12 ga. with higher priced ammunition. A 16 gauge on a true 16 or 20 gauge frame is a joy to carry. I bought an Ithaca 37 last year. It was made in 1948 and was made on a 20 gauge frame. I love the lightweight Ithacas and being left handed, a left hand safety makes a left hand gun. This 37 already had a left hand safety so I was lucky.


Ammo is a problem around here. WalMart, Dick's, and Academy usually have a few boxes of the Remington Game load for $6-$7, and maybe the Remington Express for $15. However, the only shot sizes are 6 & 7.5. I looked everywhere over the holidays for a couple of boxes and had no luck at all. I am getting back into rabbit hunting after several years away. I bought a used Lee Load All II from a friend Saturday for $25 and intend to load 1 oz. of fast 5 shot in the Remington hulls.


My advice is to keep a 16 gauge that is built on a small frame and stock up on ammo whenever and wherever you find it or load for it like I have started to do.

[Bitterroot Bob]

I agree with the above,
The 16 will do everything a 20 will do, only better with the same amount of shot. I load 7/8-oz and there is nothing better. It is NOT a 12-gauge, though, and heavy shot loads weren't intended for this hull. And, they aren't needed for most upland hunting, either.
I guess that the 12, with loads ranging from 7/8-oz to 1-1/4 oz, becomes a more versatile shotgun, and steel shot sort of requires a larger volume to be effective.
I was looking forward to a resurgence of the 16 when rumours were floating about that the Remington STS load would be available soon. Never happened. The best 16-ga hulls and components can be obtained from Ballistic Products. I load the Remington Game Load hulls once.
Enjoy the 16!
Bitterroot

[curteric]

Bitterroot Bob
On Dec 31, I was in the cities on business. When I was done I went by Ballistics Products on my way home. I need supplies for my 16. They were closed for the day, can't say as I blame them. I have to go back in a couple of weeks will stop then. The are a good place for any shot gunner.
Curt

[mcwoodduck]

The Gauge is based on how many round balls can be made from a single pound of lead.
SO a 16 ga shoot a 1 oz ball of .69"
A 12 ga is .729 shooting a ball 1 1/8 oz
a 20 is .625 shooting a 7/8 oz ball
and a 10 ga is .775 shooting a .775 ball
With the making of shot shells the 2 3/4" shell was standard as it took a good amount of powder to push that much shot by weight.
When Smokless powder came about the shell neede less volume for powder so more shot could be added.  The 12 ga adn the 20 ga were rounds that were played with to equal the 10 or the 16 in payload.  On the reverse the 12 ga was down loaded to equal the 16 and as others have said when gun companies went to a 12 frame for the 16 if you are going to carry the weight you may has well have the added options in loads from 1 1/4 oz to 1 oz.
and if you wanted a light weight field gun , the 20 frame was smaller and could shoot the traditional 1 oz load of the 16.
But the 16 was a upland and some times duck huinters dream.  With the making of steel shot the 16 again suffered from payload and the lack of a 3" chambering.

[JBlk]

The sixteen gague started becoming obsolete when all of the sport magazine writers started telling everyone how great the three inch twenty filled filled that gap.Sales of the sixteen undoubtly fell and manfactures were quick to drop that gague, and save all of the expensive tooling.The ammunition companies were quick to follow suit.Only the hard core users were left, but believe me there are many left today.The sixteen will do anything the twelve will do, and do anything much better than the twenty.You will see that gague again in the future when a new generation discovers its quality and demands new production.I personally own many gagues but the sixteen has always been my favorite.

[mcwoodduck]

The sixteen gague started becoming obsolete when all of the sport magazine writers started telling everyone how great the three inch twenty filled filled that gap.Sales of the sixteen undoubtly fell and manfactures were quick to drop that gague, and save all of the expensive tooling.The ammunition companies were quick to follow suit.Only the hard core users were left, but believe me there are many left today.The sixteen will do anything the twelve will do, and do anything much better than the twenty.You will see that gague again in the future when a new generation discovers its quality and demands new production.I personally own many gagues but the sixteen has always been my favorite.

Untill true 16 ga frames are made again for guns like the Remington 870 or 1100, why would you want a heavier gun shooting expensive ammo when you can have a 12ga?  I understand 16 is great but not a versitile as the 12 or 20 when you look at the loaded options available.

[curteric]

At yesterdays gun show I bought a New Browning, Citori, White Lightning, 16 ga with 28 inch tubes.
When I got home I dug out some Fed 3 1/4 dram equ, 1 1/8 oz loads of 7  1/2 shot. I left the full and mod chokes in the gun and had the wife throw some clays for me. The gun shot very well and broke the birds with authority. I'm very pleased. This is a true 16 frame and weighs in at 6 lb 11 oz. It should be and excellent upland game gun. I will be loading for it and can't wait to try it on Sporting Clays.

[brasskeeper]

Ithaca gun company still makes a model 37 featherlight 16 but I dont know if it is still made on a 16 frame.

[popplecop]

They are a great shotgun and the 16 is my favorite gauge.  First of all those built on a 16 or 20 frame are available, just have to do a little looking.  New the Browning BPS comes to mind, I have 3 Rem. 11/48s semi autos that I like, 3 Rem 31 slide actions, a Md. 37 Ithaca, a Sweet 16 from 62, these are all on the proper frame size.  If you can find a 870 from the50s, even though they are built on a 12 ga. receiver they are lighter than the latter ones.  For example I have a 1952 Rem 870 Skeet in 16, barrel and reciever serial numbered together, 26" VR barrel, deluxe stock and forend that are checkered weighs in at 6.76 pounds.  Have SxSs in 16 and 2 O/Us both on proper frames, they are Marlin Model 90s.  My son shoots 2 Brownings of current manufacture a BPS and an older Citori.  So they are out there just need to look around.  Lastly I suggest you go to the 16 Society webb site.

[pastorp]

Concerning the issue of suitable 16 ga ammo, I have better luck finding it in small southern towns in hardware stores & such. The 16 is still very popular in the Deep South. Places like dicks & academy don't carry much of it as already noted.  you can find it online as well.

Regards,