shotguns vs muzzleloaders for deer

[zackyholdem]

everytime i watch some hunting show on tv they say that the muzzleloader is a superior weapon to the shotgun for deer hunting in non-rifle states, i think this statement is just ludacris, i have hunted deer in MI with shotguns and ML's for over 15yrs and by far the shotgun is a superior weapon.for example...


take the hornady sst bullet for example i've found that the majority of ML hunters shoot between 100-120grs of powder and either a 250-300gr bullet and with that kind of charge and bullet weight they are getting velocities between 1700-1900 fps, that same 300 gr bullet in a 12ga load gets slightly over 2000 fps. that is the same exact bullet with better velocity, trajectory, energy and accuracy (at least equal accuracy) out of the shotgun compared to the ML, not mention 5 shots available instead of one with the ML and all the tedious cleaning associated with ML


so why do people swear that muzzleloaders are the best choice for non rifle states, am i the only one who thinks this way?   

[deernhog]

The vast majority of slug hunters are using a smoothbore with a beadsite and remington sluggers. You take the average muzzleloader with a .50, sabots and pirodex he will probably come out better.  Me I would rather use my USH as it is a specialized scoped slug gun capable of as much or more than any muzzle loader.

[LanceR]

One of the problems with taking advice from TV personalities or magazine writers is that they need to come up with something to say for every show or issue and sometimes that means the are talking out of some other body part than their mouth.

Anyone who makes a blanket statement on this subject isn't someone to be taking advice from.  It makes the same sense as stating that a blue car is always better than a red one.

First you need to define a specific muzzleloader and a specific shotgun and discuss what loads they are shooting.  Then you need to factor in weather, distance terrain etc.

Here in New York we have rifle areas and shotgun areas but a muzzleloader can be used everywhere that firearms are legal.  Probably 70% or more of shotgun shooters are using fully rifled guns with sabot loads.

I have a Savage 10ML II smokeless powder muzzleloader that will easily launch a 300 grain bullet at over 2300 FPS.  You only need to clean it every 100 shots or 100 deer, whichever comes first.  My load is a Barnes Original 300 grain .458 semi-spitzer bullet at around 2100 FPS.  It goes to over 200 yards traveling no more than 3" above or below the crosshairs or what is called a 6" mean point blank range.  You put the crosshairs in the middle of the heart/lung area and shoot.  Even the hottest slug loads are generally over 6" low at 200 yards.

My 10ML will shoot several types of bullets into less than 2" at 200 yards as long as the guy behind it does his job.  I know of no slug gun that can do that well at 200 yards.

TC and some others can hit the same velocities and soot just as well.

My slug gun is a 20 gauge Savage 220 shooting Federal/Barnes 273 grain tipped Expanders at 1900 FPS.  It will shoot to around 165 yards with a 6" MPBR.

Both guns shoot under an inch at 100 yards but the muzzleloader does it with several bullets and the slug rifle only does it with one variety.

I carry the slug rifle when I won't have a reasonable chance at a 160 yard plus shot or when I expect to see more than one deer.  I carry the muzzleloader only when I have a good chance of  a shot well over 160 yards.

Sometimes, when hunting from a stand or blind and when the terrain calls for it I take both.

With all this said I am still not prepared to do more than express my preferences and reasoning.  Whether a muzzleloader or a slug gun is the best choice for any one of us depends on far to many things for the issue to be decided by silly proclamations.

For my part, I probably hunted on part of 15 days during our regular season and left the slug rifle home once when I was hunting over a field of corn stubble.  Since it offers more accuracy than our distances generally need I value the repeat shots and lessens moisture concerns more than the maximum rage and heavier hitting bullets from the muzzleloader.

Lance

[keith44]

I gave up rifle hunting because it became too easy, if I could see it I could kill it.  There is no sport in that.  If you want to compare apples to apples, a 12ga slug gun and a 12 bore muzzleloader would be the things to compare.  No why not, everything else is an apples to oranges comparison. 


Now take two average guys give one the typical 12 ga slug gun (lets say mossberg pump with fully rifled barrel) and another guy a typical shotgun 12 ga modified cylinder choke (how 'bout a Rem 870 here)  Now who has the superior weapon?  depends on what you are after.


Change the multi shot shotgun for say a H&R Slug gun.  One shot, one chance.  Now the second guy is packin a .72 caliber muzzleloading Rifle.  Who has the advantage??


Kinda depends doesn't it.  Those of us who choose the muzzleloaders are looking for something more than simply the latest or even best weapon.  We choose what makes us feel closer to the hunt, gives us the satisfaction of overcoming the challenge.  I go so far as to hunt squirrel with a flintlock .32 cal rifle.

[blind ear]

Give me the shotgun, I don't like rain/moisture problems and I don't want to have to clean it very often (if ever). ear

[kevinsmith5]

I have a slug gun and a muzzle loader. The slug gun I trust to 100 yards and is for bears. The muzzleloader I trust to 200 yards and is for deer. As far as all this talk of cleaning.... Have y'all used modern BP subs? And my inline is no more rain sensitive than any other gun I own.

[blind ear]

I won't invest in an inline since we can shoot single shot pistol caliber hammer guns here in MS.
Timber farmers got that passed and it is all right with me.
ear

[flintlock]

As mentioned, today's modern inlines are more accurate than today's shotguns shooting slugs...Yes, both shoot saboted bullets but in the muzzleloader you have a wide choice of powders available and of bullet/sabot combinations...What this does is allows you to fine tune or handload for your hunting conditions...
With a shotgun you can buy different shells and try them until you find the most accurate but you can't change bullets to fit your hunting ranges/style and game...This combined with better accuracy because you are handloading gives a muzzleloader hunter an edge...
 
For those of you worrying about cleaning, look at Blackhorn 209 or even the Savage smokless muzzleloaders...Now, Savage has quit selling their smokeless guns but the fellows that designed that gun for them here in NC will still make you one or you can go the used route...

[bowtech302]

The tedium of using a muzzleloader takes fun away for me. Sorry but just my opinion. That said I will shoot a bow and tinker with it all day long. When I use a gun I want to keep it simple.

[yellowtail3]

so why do people swear that muzzleloaders are the best choice for non rifle states, am i the only one who thinks this way?

I speculate it is because when they're thinking shotgun, they're thinking a general-purpose shotgun - smoothbore 28" with a bead. Or many, an 870 with a shorter barrel added & sights. In that case, compared to a scoped ML properly setup... yeah, I'd take the ML.


On the other hand... if by shotgun it's a dedicated slug gun with a rifled barrel & scope, shooting those expensive sabots... pretty comparable, plus you get more than one shot (more money to setup, though)

[mspaci]

My Knight Disc Elite muzzloader will outshoot my Super Slug hunter every day of the week & twice on Sunday. Thats saying something because that is a great slug gun. Mike

[BUGEYE]

LanceR, having had both a blue car and a red one, I can say that my blue one was better.
I shot muzzle loaders for years for fun and did kill one deer with it.  but for most hunting I chose a shotgun just to simplify matters. especially when it rained.

[wreckhog]

I enjoy shooting ML, and my Omega is very accurate. I clean during the season after I have taken a shot. Then generally my season is done.  I know nuisance permit guys that use a shotgun because they can shoot several deer in a day. I don't have that issue.

[spikehorn]

I use whatever the season dictates. I am in a shotgun only area, but ML's are leagel during shotgun season. I use shotgun. There is a late ML season after shotgun, thats when I use ML. Here in my part of NY unless you are sitting on an open field shots are rarelly over 75 yards so a ML offers no real advantage