This Is Not Right..The War Crime Culture...

[TM7]

The PFC John Needham story,,,, Apocalypse Now.....and a father's video...TM7
 
Every American should read this letter:

December 18, 2007
To:   Mr. Randy Waddle, Assistant Inspector General, Ft Carson, Colorado
CC:  LTC John Shawkins, Inspector General, Ft Carson, Colorado
        Major General Mark Graham, Commanding Officer, Ft Carson, Colorado
        Major Haytham Faraj, USMC, Camp Pendleton, California
        Lt General Stanley Greene, US Army Inspector General
Subject: Formal Notification of War Atrocities and Crimes Committed by Personnel, B Company, 2-12, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division in Iraq
Dear Mr. Waddle,
My name is John Needham.  I am a member of Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 2nd Infantry division, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, (BCo,2-12INF,2BCT,2ID .  I deployed with my unit to Iraq from October 2006 until October 2007 when I was medically evacuated for physical and mental injuries that I suffered during my deployment.  The purpose of my letter is to report what I believe to be war crimes and violation of the laws of armed conflict that I personally witnesses while deployed in Iraq.
Upon arriving in Iraq in October of 2006 my unit was assigned to the ¼ Cavalry unit at Camp Prosperity.  In March of 2007 I was sent back to my unit, B Company 2-12 at Camp Falcon.  It was at Camp Falcon that I observed and was forced to participate in ugly and inhumane acts against the Iraqi citizens in our area of responsibilities.  Below I list some of the incidents that took place.
In March of 2007, I witnessed SSG Platt shoot and wound an Iraqi national without cause of provocation.  The Staff Sergeant said that he suspected the Iraqi be a “trigger” man.  We had not been attacked and we found no evidence on the man to support the suspicion.  As the Iraqi lay bleeding on the ground, PVT Smith requested to administer first aid to the Iraqi.  SSgt Platt said no and “let him bleed out.”  When SSG Platt walked away, Pvt Smith and PVT Mullins went to the Iraqi, dragged him to an alley, and applied first aid.  They then drove him to the cache for further treatment.
In June of 2007 1SG Spry caused an Iraqi male to be stopped, questioned, detained, and killed.  We had no evidence that the Iraqi was an insurgent or terrorist.  In any event when we stopped he did not pose a threat.  Although I did not personally witness the killing, I did observe 1sg Spry dismembering the body and parading of it while it was tied to the hood of a Humvee around the Muhalla neighborhood while the interpreter blared out warnings in Arabic over the loud speaker.  I have a photo that shows 1SG Spry removing the victim’s brains.
On another occasion an Iraqi male was stopped by a team led by Sgt Rogers as he walked down an alleyway.  The Iraqi was detained and questioned then with his hands tied behind his back, SGT Rogers skinned his face.
1ST Spry shot a young Iraqi teenager who was about 16 years old.  The shooting was unprovoked and the Iraqi posed no threat to the unit.  He was merely riding his bicycle past an ambush site.  When I arrived on the scene I observed 1SGT Spry along with SSG Platt dismember the boy’s body.
In August of 2007, I responded to radio call from SGT Rogers reporting that he had just shot an Iraqi who was trying to enter through a hole that the platoon had blown in a wall to allow them observation of the area during a security patrol.  When I arrived, I saw a one armed man who was still alive lying on a barricade.  The man was about 30 years old.   He had an old Ruger pistol hanging from his thumb.  It was obvious to me that the pistol was placed there because of the way it hung from his thumb.  The Iraqi was still alive when I arrived.  I saw SGT Rogers shoot him twice in the back with hollow point bullets.  The Iraqi was still moving.  I was asking why they shot him again when I heard Sgt Hoskins say “he’s moving, he’s still alive.”  SPEC Hoskins then moved to the Iraqi and shot him in the back of the head.  SSG Platt and SGT Rogers were visibly excited about the kill.  I saw them pull the Iraqi’s
brains out as they placed him in the body bag.  CPT Kirsey must have learned something about this incident because he was very upset and admonished the NCOs involved.
I have seen and heard 1SGT Spry brag about killing dogs.  He kept a running count.  At last count I remember he was boasting of having killed 80 dogs.
On many occasions I observed SGT Temples, SSG Platt and SGT Rogers beat and abuse Iraqi teenagers, some as young as 14, without cause.  They would walk into a house near areas where they suspected we had received sniper fire, then detain and beat the kids.
I have photos that support my allegations.  I also have numerous other photos on a laptop PC that the unit illegally seized from me.  I have requested its return but they have refused.
My experiences have taken a terrible toll on me.  I suffer from PTSD and depression.  I had no way to stop the ugly actions of my unit.  When I refused to participate they began to abuse and harass me.  I am still in treatment at the Balboa Naval hospital.  I respectfully request that you investigate these matters, that you protect my safety by reassigning me to a different unit that is not located at Fort Carson, that you return my PC or, at least, seize it to protect the evidence on it, and that you issue a military protective order to prohibit the offending members of my unit from harassing, retaliating, or contacting me.
I have some photographs and some supporting documentation to these allegations.
Respectfully,
PFC John Needham
US Army
 

And every American should view these photographs (warning, extremely revolting).
And then watch this superb video to learn from John Needham's father what became of him:

On the Dark Side in Al Doura - A Soldier in the Shadows from Pulse TV & Maverick Media on Vimeo.
WARNING: Graphic and disturbing photos between 38:47 and 40:00.
VIDEO DESCRIPTION:
U.S. Army Ranger John Needham, who was awarded two purple hearts and three medals for heroism, wrote to military authorities in 2007 reporting war crimes that he witnessed being committed by his own command and fellow soldiers in Al Doura, Iraq. His charges were supported by atrocity photos which, in the public interest, are now released in this video. John paid a terrible price for his opposition to these acts. His story is tragic.

CBS reported obtaining an Army document from the Criminal Investigation Command suggestive of an investigation into these war crimes allegations. The Army's conclusion was that the "offense of War Crimes did not occur." However, CBS also stated that the report was “redacted and incomplete; 111 pages were withheld.”
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_162-57323277/war-damaged-vet-kills-girlfriend-ptsd-to-blame/?tag=currentVideoInfo;videoMetaInfo
 
Salon covered this story too:
 
 http://www.salon.com/2009/02/12/coming_home_three/
 
Thanks to Cindy Piester for the excellent video and all of this information.
 

[yellowtail3]

This is really grim and I hope it's not true, I wish that it was a fiction and there was no  John Needham, and what was supposedly written to him was false.


I'm afraid it probably is true. It if is, in needs to be punished, disavowed, and not excused... otherwise there Rev. Wright was right when he said, "G-Damn America"

[OldSchoolRanger]

You seem to glory in unproven accusations against the US military of wrong doing.  I have yet to see you condemn the atrocities by muslims against Americans.  I hope the charges made by PFC John Needham are false.  But until they are either proven or dismissed based upon the facts, I will withhold my judgement.
   
 Now that another of those accusations has been proven to be bogus, where are your posts about punishing the soldier who falsely made the accusations?

A smear that prospered far too long  Last Updated: 10:57 PM, December 19, 2011
 Posted: 10:43 PM, December 19, 2011
             More Print     Arthur Herman
  Five years late, Ilario Pantano has been fully vindicated. Now where does he go to get his reputation back?
A dogged NCIS investigator has proven that Pantano, then a Marine lieutenant, should never have been put up on war-crimes charges back in 2004-5. But that doesn’t wipe away the endless smears thrown at him since.
Maybe the media and the bloggers hated him so much because he lived the classic American success story.
Born to a poor family in Hell’s Kitchen, Pantano showed the smarts to get a half-scholarship to the elite Horace Mann School — then put off college to join the Marines in the first Gulf War.
     Pantano: Now fully vindicated by NCIS.       After that tour, he came back and worked nights to finish college, then landed a job at Goldman Sachs — until he re-enlisted shortly after 9/11.
In April 2004, 2nd Lt. Pantano was leading his squad in Iraq’s deadly Sunni Triangle when they stopped two Iraqis fleeing in a car from what turned out to be an insurgent ammo dump. Pantano ordered the pair to search their own vehicle to make sure it wasn’t booby-trapped. When they charged at him instead, he opened fire.
But one Marine, a disgruntled sergeant Pantano had disciplined more than once, claimed the two men had been kneeling and that Pantano shot them from behind. All other testimony contradicted him, yet that was the witness the Judge Advocate General’s investigating officer chose to believe when he charged Pantano with murder.
Since the witness kept changing his story and no evidence backed him up, the charges were dismissed in May 2005. But Pantano’s career as a Marine was over — and his nightmare was just beginning.
It was the crazy season after Abu Ghraib — a time when Rep. Jack Murtha was accusing Marines of murder in Haditha and Sen. Dick Durbin was comparing military personnel at Gitmo to Nazis and Pol Pot.
For the media, it was the charge against Pantano, not the verdict, that mattered. New York Magazine pilloried him on its May 21, 2005 cover — sneering at his rags-to-riches story and using his “post 9/11 fervor” to portray him as a trigger-happy nut. Pantano received death threats from a jihadist Web site, and two retired Marines felt obliged to maintain a security watch around Pantano’s house.
Eventually, it all helped with his decision to leave New York. But he still wanted to serve his country. Last year, he won the endorsement of Tea Party groups to run for Congress in North Carolina. Liberal bloggers immediately went into high gear. Slate’s Matt Yglesias said it proved that “Love of violence and brutality is deeply engrained in the conservative world view.” Other bloggers labeled him a Jack Bauer Republican, implying that he was a ruthless renegade who believes that the end justifies the means.
Pantano lost in the general election, and might have faded into oblivion — except for William Rodriguez of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, who’d always been bothered by the “lynch mob” atmosphere, as he put it, surrounding Pantano’s trial, as well as the fact that there’d been no autopsy of the two Iraqis.
After five years of trying, Rodriguez finally convinced the Marines to exhume the bodies, and this last month proved that the two men had indeed been shot from the front, not the behind.
Five years too late, Ilario Pantano has finally found justice — as have those Marines accused in the Haditha case, who had the charges against them dropped over time, as well.
But two nagging questions remain. When will the media quit treating every war incident involving Americans as if it were My Lai? And when will our military justice system stop second-guessing our troops on the battlefield and let them do their job?
Arthur Herman is an American Enterprise Institute visiting scholar.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/smear_that_prospered_far_too_long_TRpBphwm8VFHIiel7BXqcM#ixzz1iuCuaOOu

[yellowtail3]

You seem to glory in unproven accusations against the US military of wrong doing.  I have yet to see you condemn the atrocities by muslims against Americans.  I hope the charges made by PFC John Needham are false.  But until they are either proven or dismissed based upon the facts, I will withhold my judgement.

revealing choice of words - 'glory in it'?


Hey, I'll condemn the atrocities by Muslims against Americans. But how many here will condemn the atrocities committed against Muslim, by 'Christians'? Helllllloooo? Not many... it goes against their ideology.

[BUGEYE]

You can't win a war playing mr-nice-guy.  and if you hesitate to pull the trigger, you are dead.

[teamnelson]

Its true, the line between being tough on the enemy and war crimes is difficult to discern ... even moreso when the young people we are putting out on the lines are less morally developed than any in our history. The military has neither the time nor the means to correct moral deficiencies in training, and with multiple combat tours, sociopathic behavior left unchecked will gain momentum. Its been true in every way every fought by men. Not all who respond the sound of the guns are sheepdogs, many are just opportunistic wolves.

I have been in units in which troops crossed the line and were punished. I have lost men because the Rules of Engagement were too lax and the guilty were left unpunished. Neither extreme is right no matter how emotionally appealing it may sound. The allegations made here involve non-combatants, unproven suspects - we would cry foul if it were done on our land. If they are found to be true, then those involved, to include the chain of command, should be punished accordingly. Its a smudge on the honor of our country, and is not in keeping with the ideals of our nation. See, when an american does something bad, that doesn't mean America is bad. I'm rational enough to make that distinction. There are bad people in every culture. I lost 40 of my men, friends and brothers, and was almost counted in their number, but by the grace of God. That doesn't give me the right to take my anger out on the innocent.

If you can't tell, my time as a Chaplain when contrasted to my previous time as a SNCO, has led me to conclude that while we have the smartest, most informed recruits in the history of the US, we also have the most morally unprepared, and that my friends isn't their fault ... its ours, parents of America.

[teamnelson]

I don't know if it makes enemies, as many with whom were fighting were at enmity with us before we met. But it does harden them that much more. It also robs us of the moral high ground.

We pride ourselves on being the world's police, a global force for good, that takes out bullies and protects the innocent. If a local cop bullies the populace, even those engaged in petty crime, we get soured against the entire police force. They do an investigation, and publicly announce innocence or guilt. Same here, it should be investigated, tried if necessary and the results released publicly to restore public confidence in ourselves. I'd be happy to learn that PFC Needham is deluded.

I rewatched the movie, The Patriot, recently, and noted that they brought up the issue of honor in war repeatedly. From the reciprocity in the French Indian war, shooting of children, shooting of wounded, conscription of freedmen, the transition from saving a son to chopping up a British troop with a tomahawk, shooting of prisoners, burning a church full of civilians women and children. If it made you mad to watch the Dragoons torch homes & churches and kill families, it should make us doubly mad when one of our own does it ... once they've been found guilty.

[teamnelson]

Use to be a time when the biggest problem of the mil was getting guys desensitized enough to kill...seems like not so big a problem as more and more are willing to act their video games....

I've shared here before about ensuring we kicked out a sociopath before he went to war with us. I can't speak for the entire DOD, but as much as I have had influence, we've been diligent to set them free. I'd say that there is a rise of amorality, but not overwhelmingly so. Military traditions, such as are left, are the kool-aid many seek in service. Dad gave them no sense of committment or honor, Mom was a permissive and passive aggressive opportunist, so the opportunity to feel good about one's self in a deep meaningful way (as opposed to a gold star for self-esteem) is still a primary draw in recruiting. We still appeal to higher ideals, eventhough for many it's becoming less meaningful.

[teamnelson]

I'm not the first to say this in human history ... given enough time, all parties converge around a common greed.


- That's true of politics, where the Dems and Republicans have become so alike as to be indistinct.
- That's true in the law, were the upholders of the law in their zeal become just as corrupt as the breakers of the law, to where the criminal becomes heroic.
- And its true of "religion" where often Jews, Christians, Muslims, and even Buddhists are so alike in their hatred of the other, and their self-righteousness, that they have more in common with their alternates than they do with the true adherents of their own faith.


There is a light/dark struggle going on in creation. But you'll notice that when you open a closet door, darkness doesn't spill out, light floods in.

[OldSchoolRanger]

OSR....you're 'fabricating' again...    First I have always condemned any acts of violence or terror by any country or movement when it has been proven to actually be the case...including any moslem, Buddhist, Christian, isreali, Indian, American, Chinese, LEO, or anybody...that I'm consistant. I also decry any American war partyistas using any and all measures to condemn  1/3 of world population in order to gain their own  religious rivalry, selfish and satanic desries of imperial hegemony and contrived perpetual profit wars. How many wars in your lifetime till you've had enough?
.
Speaking of  'satanic'....did you happen to read post #1..??  Seems you didn't. I don't know who Lt.Pantano is....is he mentioned in post #1? What is mentioned is a culture of wanton killing, skinning man's face alive, tieing bodies to hoods and driving around, removing brain material and dismembering bodies,  wounding persons and standing on them to bleed out, shooting kids, shooting wounded persons in the back of the head with hollowpoints, killing dogs, and worse, etc., etc....ad nauseum....your Lt. Pantano is not mentioned--SSgt Platt, PVT Spry, SGT Rogers, PVT Smith, and CPTain Kirsey's loss of control is mentioned.   This is not just wiping out a village of families from 10,000ft...this is wanton and deliberate ceremonial satanism by some measures and by desensitized nutters,....The Abyss....it is indefensible even by the most hardened of professional soldiers. The military needs to clean up their mess which they created.  This is not the America I was raised to believe in or want representing us---how you try to defend this stuff is unbelievable--most normal human beings would see this as most alarming and want it looked into and stopped...I should think decent professional military officers would too..  
PVC John Needham at least had some 'Christ' still in him....he and his father (an ex-marine I believe) tried to expose these crimes and debauched  'Culture of the Abyss'.  PVC Needham paid the ultimate price...do watch the video of his father speaking relating the whole sordid story; including the persecution of his son....geeez for cryin out loud....!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TNEL...good comments....If true, what these guys did is not winning any war, not defending our country---IT IS THE MAKING OF A PERMANENT ENEMY.!!
.
...TM7

TM - Fabricating?  From the person that uses propaganda rags to support his comments?
So since you are the first to condemn acts of violence "when it has been proven to actually be the case", I guess I should hold my breath until I turn blue, waiting for you to condemn the muslim killers who chose to cut off a reporters head with a dull blade, right?  The only consistency I've seen from you is your condemnation of Cops, active duty military, Israel, and Jews.

I did read post #1, and I responded to it, or were you picking and choosing what you deem to have read.   In case you missed it, I responded; "I hope the charges made by PFC John Needham are false.  But until they are either proven or dismissed based upon the facts, I will withhold my judgement".  I took the liberty of retyping again so you can reread it.  That is what you should learn to do, instead of constantly looking to stir the pot.  I posted about
Lt. Pantano, because this is exactly the rush to judgment that put him and his family thru hell. It was allegations from a disgruntled subordinate that led to the false charges.

Your comment: "This is not the America I was raised to believe in or want representing us---how you try to defend this stuff is unbelievable--most normal human beings would see this as most alarming and want it looked into and stopped...I should think decent professional military officers would too.." is naive in the extreme.  I didn't defend any atrocities.  War is hell, that's why most decent people don't want any part of it, but when war happens, sometimes the instinct for survival gets the better of some men.  Ask the WWII & Korean War vets, those are part of our greatest generation, and you don't want them representing us?  Well I do.  What I don't want are people like you, always demeaning and accusing our vets and active duty troops, representing us when you have no idea what it's like to be shot at.

Hey TeamNelson - I respect your point of view, and I'm sure you understand mine.

[Casull]

First I have always condemned any acts of violence or terror by any country or movement when it has been proven to actually be the case

 
tm7, I must have missed those times you condemned muslim acts of violence or terror.  I just can't seem to recall a single instance.
 
 

What is mentioned is a culture of wanton killing, skinning man's face alive, tieing bodies to hoods and driving around, removing brain material and dismembering bodies,  wounding persons and standing on them to bleed out, shooting kids, shooting wounded persons in the back of the head with hollowpoints, killing dogs, and worse, etc., etc....ad nauseum...

 
Have these things been proven?  Or is being mentioned sufficient when it's US troops involved?     

[teamnelson]

Hey TeamNelson - I respect your point of view, and I'm sure you understand mine.

OSR, I understand it and respect it as well!


Some may call me naieve, not those who know me personally, but here on the internet perhaps. I think TM7 means well - he's a skeptic, who sincerely desires what is good and right. He's more enthusiastic in his deconstruction of America than I might be, but folks like him give the rest of us balance. He forces us to talk in truth and not assumptions.


For perspective, if PFC Needhams allegations are true, that's a very small number of sociopaths against the 1.5 million Americans that have served in Iraq over the past 10 years. At one point Gen Jones, commander of Al Anbar (all Marines in theater) told me he was worried about 3 prostitution rings just on his camp - 1 military, 1 civilian contractors, and 1 3rd country nationals. He was talking cartels, not the independent operators. Believe me, we were not on our best behavior in that country. Blame on stress, blame it natural human weakness, blame it on no home training ... but this war was not different than Nam or Korea or WW2 or WW1 or Thermopylae. We had our heroes and our villains ... war is like alcohol, it brings out whatever was inside.

[OldSchoolRanger]

--- Post removed 01/12/2012 4:53 am by Singleshotsam.  Reason : Irrelvant to discussion, personal attack. ---

[teamnelson]

my son knows several ME vets of his age ; he claims to the man that they have a great amount of remorse and harbor some very deep feelings about what they were forced to do....which didn't jive with what they signed up for.

Forced to do ... never saw a single service member forced to do anything, but I guess there are different definitions of force. Men of character voiced their concerns at the appropriate times to the appropriate authorities and may have had some consequence to their concerns, while others bottled it up, went along to get along, and may be feeling personal remorse. But no one was forced to do anything illegal, immoral or unethical.

MSM said there were no WMDs ... didn't jive with my experience.

Recruiter told a bunch of them they'd get to kill jihadis ... but they didn't get to and left unfulfilled.

One pump chumps trying to look big in front of white t-shirt SOI drops in the barracks talked big about shooting people in the face, women and children, dumping bodies in the river. They had manned an overwatch, pissed themselves when the shooting started and had to compensate for what they see in the mirror by telling stories. While the boots went by the book, showed respect, and learned honorable war.

I'm not denying anyone's personal experience, but none should ever claim they were forced to do anything that violated their conscience. If they did so, they did so because they were too cowardly at the time to say no, and THAT is the shame they are feeling now.

I've heard every variation of the post-war story, and have my own to throw in. Its never what you expect. Many men are ashamed that they didn't prove themselves, or were surprised that they were capable of combat after all, and that's scary. Some men are calmer in chaos than not, and the absence of chaos wears on their soul. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss it some days.

That war is hell cannot be dismissed ... neither does it condone bad behavior. But it cannot be dismissed. No man knows his own character until its truly tested, and that's the hell of war. The school of thought I concur with is the one that observes that all of this post-war remorse is ultimately disappointment in self, and nothing else. Yes, its not what you expect or what you're told. It never is.

[BUGEYE]

TN, your reply #19 was right on the money.

TM7,' PVC' Needham, I thought that was a plastic pipe.

[OldSchoolRanger]

I still say that unproven charges or claims should not be allowed to smear people unnecessarily.

YT - had it right when he said:

This is really grim and I hope it's not true, I wish that it was a fiction and there was no  John Needham, and what was supposedly written to him was false.


I'm afraid it probably is true. It if is, in needs to be punished, disavowed, and not excused... ...

The only thing that I hope for is that if & when the above charges are proven to be false.  You will post recanting the muckraking.

[teamnelson]

Sadly, with the recent pictures of a Marine sniper unit urinating on corpses, every allegation will be looked at as guilty until proven innocent.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Tsk, tsk,

"Excuse my Officer OSR?", "You should be able to tell the difference; or go learn the difference. ." ?

Would you please explain to me, what your means of addressing me has to do with the subject?

 "I should be able to tell the difference; or go learn the difference"?  I do believe you are launching a personal attack on me by trying to insult my intelligence, and possibly trying to demean a profession.
 
 With all due respect, Mr. Moderator Singleshotsam, how about a little impartiality here?  Is this censorship going to be a one sided?  Thank you for your consideration in advance.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Treating you in like and kind with humor........guess you don't like it when it comes back to you. Means of adressing you was in hope of having you remove institutional blinders for a moment. But Nevermind,,,,,and there is no muckracking here as you tried to inject...just a report...please discern the difference.  Thanx.
 
..TM7

Nope, I don't mind at all, just remember you said that.  Thanks for your apology.

[Swift One]

Plain and simple.  Because of the allegations and pictures that may or may not support the allegations, unfortunatly it needs to be looked into. If the allegations are proven true, then they need to be dealt with.  It sucks, but its what has to be done.
 
War is hell, no doubt.  Doesnt mean we have to loose focus- and by that I mean soldiers acting like vikings OR NEWS CREWS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO CHASTIZE SOLDIERS ON THINGS THEY DONT UNDERSTAND.
 
Acts other than moral have been going on by every Military force, insurgent, tribe, and faction since we were walking on two feet.  We, I am sure are not immune to it.
 
Simple solution- mandate that no military combat personell be allowed to have in possession ANY recording device (photgraphic, audio, or video) while on combat operations, missions, or patrols.  Only combat photographers and journalists be allowed such devices.  REMOVE THE IMBEDDED PRESS.  That is really a no brainer.
 

[Swift One]

Well those are interesting comments Swift One, but I don't think it will make the problem go away with see and hear no evil...probably just make it worst....Presently, the current US war policy is to have war continous, not concluded,,,,so having macabre warrior death rituals probably fills that end....because in my opinion stuff like Needham relates just makes permanent enemies. So when the powers decide to rachet down or conclude their projects they will crack down on this ritual stuff and make a few issues out of some cases. Of course, most of it will slide down the memory hole located in the Abyss.....

This reply that I am about to give to you TM7 is not at all an attack on you so please remember that.  I dont know if you have ever been in a combat zone or not, but weather it's storming the beaches at D-day or invading Grenada- something about a combat zone will cause most men to reconnect with their primitive side.  And when you see your buddy killed or worse- his body disrespected by your enemy- that primitive side comes out even more.  Been there and done that.
 
I put in another post that war experience is for the war fighters that have been there and no one else.  The end product of war such as freedom, liberation and things like that is for the rest of the world to experience.  This is a very true statement.  Somethings you can try and explain to some one all day, but unless you have been there, chances are, that person that you are trying to expalin it to is not going to fully understand.
 
THAT BEING SAID- posting pics and video of the things that go on in a combat zone for all the world to see is incredibly stupid in the day of false judgment and lawsuit happy societies.  Unfortunatly, we have no choice but to investigate and either dismiss the allegations or find them to be accurate and hold the responsible patries accountable.  Its the world that we live in.
 
Personally, I see no gain in collecting ear necklaces, scalps, and stuff like that.  Two to the chest and one to the head is enough for me.  But thats me. Its hard for a non-vet to judge a man that has gone through war and what happens in the dark moments of war.  They like to call war poilce actions these days.  They dont like to use the word "conquer".  They like the word "liberate".  They hate the phrase "Search and Destroy".  it's "Sweep and Clear".  Funny thing is though, soldiers are trained to kill and dominate, not to be police.
 
I advocate this- let the war experience rest with the war fighters.  Let the freedoms and rewards we gain from war rest with the rest of the population. Next time any of you guys see a vet, shake his hand and thank him for what he has done for you, not for what he has done for him.