HELP! Heavy leading in a FA 83

[bigecvan65]

I am having a lot of leading in a FA-83 454 using a 300 gr. hard cast swc. and HP-38. I have tried 9 - 10 and 11 grs. of powder. The loads are a pleasure to shoot but cleaning is not good. What is the best way to clean leading. I am using Barnes solvent but it takes alot of repeat scrubbing.
I would like to keep the fps around 1000 -1300 fps w/300gr bullet as I have had both shoulders  replaced and the recoil of the heavy hitters goes right to my shoulders. I really like the versitility of the 454.

[flatgate]

I use gas checked 300 to 335 gr. bullets in my .454's.  Leading is minimal.  I also zip them out the bore at speeds in the 1,300 to 1,600 fps range.


Try speeding them up a bit. (I use much slower powder, as well.)


Carl

[doghawg]

bigecvan65

 First off...welcome to the forum. I've had one shoulder scoped and the other one should be so I know what you're talking about with heavy recoil...I just traded off my .500 S+W on a .45 ACP.  I'd suggest trying a slower burning powder...Alliant 2400 is my preference. I use 21 or 22 gr. under an RCBS 300 gr. GC for 1200 to 1300 fps in a 7 1/2" Mod 83 and relatively mild recoil. With Win 231 (same as HP38) 10 1/2 gr. gives 1125 fps under Nosler 250 gr. JHP's and outstanding accuracy and very mild recoil.
 You don't say which 300 gr. bullet you're using and there are a lot of factors involved in leading...throat, bore and bullet diameters, etc. Also, a lot of commercial cast bullets are actually TOO hard.

 

[bigecvan65]

   Thanks for the info. I did some trading for the lead bullets that I was using, they seem to be very hard (maybe too hard ) and looked really well made. they were commercially made but I am not sure by who. I shot around 50 tring to work up accuracy with the right load. but I did not clean until after the first 25 shots and then I didn't think I was ever going to get all the lead out.
   I would like to take a deer with lead but maybe I should try another type bullet or bullet weight?

[Lloyd Smale]

the right answer. Plain based bullets and fast powders dont mix that well. there are much better powders to push 300 grain bullets in a 454 to those levels. Hs6 and 2400 are two of the best. I wouldnt worry about the to hard of bullet thought. Fa guns are built right and ive yet to see a gun with a good barrel and proper tolarances that didnt shoot better with harder bullets then with soft. Bullet diameter is an issue but usually with a fa guns 452s are the biggest that will chamber and 451s sometimes are all that will fit and about every comercial cast bullet for the 45s are sized to 452. With a commerical bullet there sometimes is a lube problem. Many companys use hard lubes because they hold up better for shipping bullets and hard lubes just dont work as well as softer lubes. Using my own bullets cast out of 5050 ww/lyno ive shot plain based bullets to 1300 and gas checked bullets over 1500 with proper loads with absolutely no leading in my 83. to test if its a lube problem buy a bottle of tumble lube and apply it right over the lubed bullet. If leading is reduced your lube is probably not doing its job. First thing id try though is switching powder.

bigecvan65

 First off...welcome to the forum. I've had one shoulder scoped and the other one should be so I know what you're talking about with heavy recoil...I just traded off my .500 S+W on a .45 ACP.  I'd suggest trying a slower burning powder...Alliant 2400 is my preference. I use 21 or 22 gr. under an RCBS 300 gr. GC for 1200 to 1300 fps in a 7 1/2" Mod 83 and relatively mild recoil. With Win 231 (same as HP38) 10 1/2 gr. gives 1125 fps under Nosler 250 gr. JHP's and outstanding accuracy and very mild recoil.
 You don't say which 300 gr. bullet you're using and there are a lot of factors involved in leading...throat, bore and bullet diameters, etc. Also, a lot of commercial cast bullets are actually TOO hard.

[bigecvan65]

I recently bought a lb. of HS-6 just for cast bullets I think it time to give it a try. thanks guys for the information.
Dan

[Bearbait in NM]

And if you do find yourself with any leading for whatever reason, wrap a little Chore Boy brand copper scouring pad around your 45 brush and hit the leading with no solvent.  The pad will mechanically remove leading very fast and easy.
 
Craig

[bigecvan65]

thanks Craig, I will try that.
 
I have looked locally and midway, but can't locate the chore boy scouring pad. any suggestions?
 
found it on ebay!!!

[flatgate]

 
I have looked locally and midway, but can't locate the chore boy scouring pad.

Grocery Stores.  Cleaning supplies isle.


flatgate

[Ken ONeill]

Shooting a couple of, or a cylinder full of jacketed bullets at the end of each shooting session will also clean out the lead. The lead will tin to the copper.

[fatercat]

don"t use lead bullits

[suba]

There are others here who know a lot more about FA's but here's my thoughts.


Although I've never tried it, I'm not too keen on shooting lead out with jacked bullets. As others have said use some Chore Boy or equivalent. Shooters Choice lead remover also works well, but don't let it sit too long. After the bore is clean ( make sure there's no copper under the lead ) I'd recommend using some JB bore paste to get rid of anything you missed. The idea is to get back to bare metal. Clean the JB out well. Then use a little Bull Plate if you have it but it's not essential. Dan and Tina sell it in Alaska but it's now harder to get.  It's used as a mould sprue plate lubricant so hot lead doesn't stick to it. It's good stuff.

They say fit is king, so make sure your boolits are the right size. I'd change powder and don't use a hard lube that comes with many commercial boolits. Imo a soft lube is better. I shoot PB ( no GC ) exclusively in my 454 with no leading.  I use a little Gunzilla on the bore and cylinder but only get carbon. Then a little Bull Plate ( a very small amount ) and I'm good to go.


Don't forget to clean the cylinder throats because they likely have some lead in them.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive been shooting out mild leading for years using jacketed bullets or gas checked bullets. Never seen it hurt a thing. Thing is your gun shouldnt lead to begin with and you need to fix the problem.

[suba]

I know some of you high round guys do that, but it doesn't make it necessarily right. Heck, when I was on Vietnam we took apart claymores and used the c4 to cook with. Apples and oranges but what can work doesn't mean you should do it.


You're right that if you have to shoot jacketed to get out lead you have a problem or you don't clean your gun enough. Seems shooting jacketed or GC doesn't solve anything but a basic removal of some or maybe most of the lead, but what about the copper left behind. Doesn't that just exacerbate the problem ? Someone could also get into pressure problems with a severely leaded bore shooting a hot jacketed round if they weren't that knowledgable to begin with.


Maybe things like shooting jackets to get out lead should be left to shooters who understand the risks and rewards. People who aren't very familiar with guns or claymores probably shouldn't mess with things they don't understand..


Just my 2c...

[bobthenailer]

  For loads in the 1000 to 1100 fps range with excellent accuracy and freedom from leading with 260  , 270 & 300 gr cast bullets ive had excellent results with 8 to 9 grains of Tightgroup powder in my 3- 454 Casulls

[Slufoot]

The tip on using a piece of copper scouring pad wrapped around a bore brush is the best and quickest way I have found to get the lead out. I've been using it for years and it works great.
Make dead sure that the scouring pads you buy say (100% copper), if they don't say that, don't buy them.
 
GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[Ken ONeill]

It's quite fine with me if anyone else wants to be concerned about doing it, but I've been shooting lead residue out of barrels using jacketed bullets for over 50 years through many dozens of revolvers and .45 autos, but feel free to do as you will ....

[Lloyd Smale]

me too Ken and ive yet to see anyone really show proof that it hurt a thing. You get a lot of people who say its not a good idea but where do they get there opinion from? mostly from the internet! I say show me just ONE expample of it being proved to hurt a gun.

[2 dogs]

Here ya go, this article might help you. Most likely your bullets are undersize for your cylinder throats but there could be other issues. Cleaning a barrel with a chore girl wrapped bristle brush is the best way to get the lead out.
 
http://www.gunblast.com/FerminGarza-Firelapping.htm