Now this...food for thought..

[ironglow]

  This, after the Obama administration announces (and practices) slashing reductions to our defense budgets;
 
  http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.9d58c31cd5bdcb7896237b12cacad3c9.821&show_article=1

[magooch]

Fear not, Obama and Hilary are in charge.

[bilmac]

Isn't that always the history, we finish a war and then immediately cut the military so that the soldiers at the start of the next war get to pay with blood for politicians stupidity. Who wants to pay for a fire department, there's no fire burning.

This president takes the cake though cutting even while we are still under attack, and you know that the rest of the world is waiting for us to show signs of weakness.

[BBF]

................................
 
.......................... even while we are still under attack...........................

 
   Who is attacking you, seems to me it is the other way around as long as you have one uninvited soldier in a foreign land or one military aircraft or spy drone in someone else's airspace. 

[Dixie Dude]

I've thought for years that India would be the best ally in the region.  We instead allied ourselves with Pakistan.  India is a democratic nation, very large population, is poised to compete with China.  China is buying a lot of natural resources from African nations.  They also import a lot of oil.  If India played like China by pegging their rupie to the dollar like China's yuan, they could compete labor wise for manufacturing companies.  Just a thought. 

[bilmac]

Who is attacking you?


We are in a holy war whether our leaders want to admit it or not.

[ironglow]

  Bilmac;
  The naievte of some still startles us doesn't it !  We ARE in a religious world war, whether we want it or not!
   
  14 bombs exploded in Baghdad this morning..many dead...  Our troops were pulled out just days ago.  The psuedo messiah was warned by people much more intelligent than himself, that a incremental withdrawal was needed..
 
   Bilmac..   Who attacked us ?
  Hmmm..  Who was flying the planes which killed thousands at the WTC< pentagon and shanksville, Pa ?
  Who murdered soldiers outside a recruiting center in Arkansas ?  Who murdered unarmed troops at Ft Hood ?  Who murdered dozens of innocents in a plane over Lockerbie, Scotland ?
       Must have been those "Wascally Amish" again...    

[yellowtail3]

  Bilmac;
  The naievte of some still startles us doesn't it !  We ARE in a religious world war, whether we want it or not!

Don't fool yourself; some Americans really do want a religious war.

[Dixie Dude]

Christians don't want a religious war.  We just want people to understand the true nature of Islam, and what they want.  What their Imans are saying and teaching.  We want to be independent of Arab oil period.  That way none of our money can be handed to terroists under the table while smiling at us.  Use our own, drill, build the pipelines, etc, until viable alternatives can be produced such as algae oil.  We want our nation to remain strong enough to resist any attacks from any source.  No one really wants a war.  No one wants to start a war.  But, if they want one, lets give them one back real hard to stop them once and for all. 

[NWBear]

Didn't this topic start out as an alert to the rise of Chinese military strength?  A REAL potential threat to the US.  We are still spending MORE than the REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED on the military, euphemistically called "Defense" even though most of the money is spent on overseas missions.  Do we really still need to defend Germany?  We may need to defend S. Korea, so it is a good thing we kept troops there for the last 60 years...  I truly wonder how much of our military "Technology" can still be built in the US from US sourced parts?  30 years in high tech electronics, I saw almost all of our manufacturing capacity sent to Asia.  It is fine to say we keep back the most sensitive components - but you could end up with a failure due the "commercial off the shelf" part not still being made here.  The highest tech vehicle can still be useless without tires.  It is not the high tech gear that was unavailable, just the lowly tires (this is an example, I know we still make tires here.)  I agree with Ron Paul, and others, let's DEFEND the US - and it true allies, who also kick in some of their own GDP for defense.   I love and live near Canada, but how much of their GDP is spent on "National Defense"  Are they counting on us to defend them???


If we are (were) really at war with the Nation of Islam (all Islamic countries); we should just TAKE OVER the Middle East. We could start with Saudi Arabia (the source of 95% of the 9/11 terrorists, and Osama).  After we had enough oil secured, we could intimidate the rest of the Muslim world - and anyone else who needed oil.  Stop cutting the dogs tail off an inch at a time, say what you mean and mean what you say.  This is the real way to fight a WAR.  Or, we could just defend ourselves against REAL threats to our livelihood.
My opinions.
NW Bear

[scootrd]

  Bilmac;
  The naievte of some still startles us doesn't it !  We ARE in a religious world war, whether we want it or not!
   
  14 bombs exploded in Baghdad this morning..many dead...  Our troops were pulled out just days ago.  The psuedo messiah was warned by people much more intelligent than himself, that a incremental withdrawal was needed..
 
   Bilmac..   Who attacked us ? Terrorists tied to Al Quaida 
  Hmmm..  Who was flying the planes which killed thousands at the WTC< pentagon and shanksville, Pa ? 15 Saudi's,
1 Lebanese , 1 Egyptian , 2 UAE. radicals tied to Bin Ladin .....Hmm .....no Iraqi's (30 million Muslims). No Azerbaijan's (8 million Muslim's) No Algerians (34 million Muslims) no Kuwaits (2 million Muslims) No Jordanians (6 million Muslims) no Moroccans (31 million Muslims) etc.. etc..
Who murdered soldiers outside a recruiting center in Arkansas ?  A individual nut Job . Who murdered unarmed troops at Ft Hood ?  Another individual nut Job . Who murdered dozens of innocents in a plane over Lockerbie, Scotland ? Gadaffi  - poof he's gone, killed by his own Muslim Islamic people.
       Must have been those "Wascally Amish" again...    

We are not in a religious war. We are in a war with radical Islamic fudamentalist terrorists .
Should all Christians be condemmed for the acts of a few bad Chrustians throughout history?

[ironglow]

  Bilmac;
  The naievte of some still startles us doesn't it !  We ARE in a religious world war, whether we want it or not!
   
  14 bombs exploded in Baghdad this morning..many dead...  Our troops were pulled out just days ago.  The psuedo messiah was warned by people much more intelligent than himself, that a incremental withdrawal was needed..
 
   Bilmac..   Who attacked us ? Terrorists tied to Al Quaida 
  Hmmm..  Who was flying the planes which killed thousands at the WTC< pentagon and shanksville, Pa ? 15 Saudi's,
1 Lebanese , 1 Egyptian , 2 UAE. radicals tied to Bin Ladin .....Hmm .....no Iraqi's (30 million Muslims). No Azerbaijan's (8 million Muslim's) No Algerians (34 million Muslims) no Kuwaits (2 million Muslims) No Jordanians (6 million Muslims) no Moroccans (31 million Muslims) etc.. etc..
Who murdered soldiers outside a recruiting center in Arkansas ?  A individual nut Job . Who murdered unarmed troops at Ft Hood ?  Another individual nut Job . Who murdered dozens of innocents in a plane over Lockerbie, Scotland ? Gadaffi  - poof he's gone, killed by his own Muslim Islamic people.
       Must have been those "Wascally Amish" again...    

We are not in a religious war. We are in a war with radical Islamic fudamentalist terrorists .
Should all Christians be condemmed for the acts of a few bad Chrustians throughout history?

..................................................................
 
  Scoot;
  No matter how you try to twist it..our attackers are practically ALL MUSLIMS..
 
    UUHhhh...We are talking about "here and now"..what any misguided Christians, Jews, Muslims or Hindus did 200 years ago, doesn't result in body parts being picked up in New York, London, Jerusalem or Lockerbie..TODAY !

[ironglow]

Yellowtail says;
  " Don't fool yourself; some Americans really do want a religious war".
...
 
Yellowtail;
      Sorry you feel that way...
   ...But you're not alone; there was also John Brown, and of course..
  Then the Ft Hood mass murderer, the "Lackawanna seven", the murderer of 2 soldiers at an Arkansas recruiting station...Muslims all ..born in the USA

[magooch]

My only hope is that we quit fighting our enemies with troops.  We have the means to conduct war the way it should be.  You screw with us and we delete you.  If that means that you (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, Syria, Sudan, and others of that ilk) have to police their countries to make sure no terrorists from that area give us a problem--then so be it.
 
I just cannot accept the idea and strategy of sending our troops out to be targets for unfriendlies to plink at ,or blow up with bombs.  It makes no sense.

[scootrd]

  Bilmac;
  The naievte of some still startles us doesn't it !  We ARE in a religious world war, whether we want it or not!
   
  14 bombs exploded in Baghdad this morning..many dead...  Our troops were pulled out just days ago.  The psuedo messiah was warned by people much more intelligent than himself, that a incremental withdrawal was needed..
 
   Bilmac..   Who attacked us ? Terrorists tied to Al Quaida 
  Hmmm..  Who was flying the planes which killed thousands at the WTC< pentagon and shanksville, Pa ? 15 Saudi's,
1 Lebanese , 1 Egyptian , 2 UAE. radicals tied to Bin Ladin .....Hmm .....no Iraqi's (30 million Muslims). No Azerbaijan's (8 million Muslim's) No Algerians (34 million Muslims) no Kuwaits (2 million Muslims) No Jordanians (6 million Muslims) no Moroccans (31 million Muslims) etc.. etc..
Who murdered soldiers outside a recruiting center in Arkansas ?  A individual nut Job . Who murdered unarmed troops at Ft Hood ?  Another individual nut Job . Who murdered dozens of innocents in a plane over Lockerbie, Scotland ? Gadaffi  - poof he's gone, killed by his own Muslim Islamic people.
       Must have been those "Wascally Amish" again...    

We are not in a religious war. We are in a war with radical Islamic fudamentalist terrorists .
Should all Christians be condemmed for the acts of a few bad Chrustians throughout history?

..................................................................
 
  Scoot;
  No matter how you try to twist it..our attackers are practically ALL MUSLIMS..
 
    UUHhhh...We are talking about "here and now"..what any misguided Christians, Jews, Muslims or Hindus did 200 years ago, doesn't result in body parts being picked up in New York, London, Jerusalem or Lockerbie..TODAY !

I am not trying to twist anything , I am stating in no uncertain terms I do not believe we are in a religious war though some would like to frame it as such for their own personal hate agenda's .  There are radicals in every walk of life . There are over 1.5 Billion followers of Islam throughout the world practicing their faith quietly and peacefully..  You are ready to condemn 1.5 billion peoples for the atrocities committed by a minority of radical Islamic fundamentalist terrorist wingnuts. 

I do despise those INDIVIDUALS for what they did , and yes they should be irradicated off the face of this earth. But as a christian I am unwilling to hate all for the deeds of a few. Sorry, I'm not on board with that way of thinking in this regard,  and quite frankly never will be.

Peace..

Semper Fi

[yellowtail3]

Yellowtail;  Sorry you feel that way...

Your regret is misplaced; it's not a feeling I have, it's a simple observation I've made. Surely you've notice that right here in our own little corner of the web, we've got posters who refer to Muslims generally using the sort of language that Col. Chivington used re: Indians back around 1864; one wonders if they recommend the same 'remedies'

There are over 1.5 Billion followers of Islam throughout the world practicing their faith quietly and peacefully.. 

Very true...

You are ready to condemn 1.5 billion peoples for the atrocities committed by a minority of radical Islamic fundamentalist terrorist wingnuts. 

It's easier to classify whole groups as Enemies, rather than made fine distinctions which might require further learning & undermine easy answers.

[bilmac]

Why is it the liberal viewpoint is that if you say that Muslims are at war with Christians and Jews that therefore that we want to attack and destroy every Muslim. Did I say such a thing, did Ironglow. What is the problem, is it the fact that we forget to say radical Muslim extremist every time we refer to our enemies. Sorry I'm a poor typist so sometimes I take shortcuts. I don't believe that every Muslim hates Christians.

IT PISSES ME OFF A LOT WHEN YOU EQUATE ME WITH CHEVINGTON AND HIS BUNCH OF DENVER BAR FLIES

[yellowtail3]

Why is it the liberal viewpoint is that if you say that Muslims are at war with Christians and Jews that therefore that we want to attack and destroy every Muslim.

I don't know that it is 'the liberal viewpoint' - you'd have to ask a librul who actually believes that. But I'll speculate... such general statement that Muslims are at war with Christians is a falsehood, so the listener might try to figure out a motive for such a falsehood. Maybe they'd assume the speaker is hoping for such a conflict? Or that they're just mis-informed? You're welcome to speculate.

I don't believe that every Muslim hates Christians.

Very good, Bilmac; that puts you in good company, as such belief is shared by many thoughtful & informed persons.

IT PISSES ME OFF A LOT WHEN YOU EQUATE ME WITH CHEVINGTON AND HIS BUNCH OF DENVER BAR FLIES

??
If you refer to my post - ? - it did not mention you. If you don't share the same bloody contempt for Muslims as Chivington had for the Cheyenne[Indians in general] he looked forward to killing, then you've no reason to be pissed off. Merry Christmas!

[scootrd]

Why is it the liberal viewpoint is that if you say that Muslims are at war with Christians and Jews that therefore that we want to attack and destroy every Muslim. Did I say such a thing, did Ironglow. What is the problem, is it the fact that we forget to say radical Muslim extremist every time we refer to our enemies. Sorry I'm a poor typist so sometimes I take shortcuts. I don't believe that every Muslim hates Christians.

IT PISSES ME OFF A LOT WHEN YOU EQUATE ME WITH CHEVINGTON AND HIS BUNCH OF DENVER BAR FLIES

I am not saying you nor IG subscribed to wipe out every Muslim.  I am saying there are those out there that continually try to frame this as a "Religious War" for their own personal hate agenda's . I am not one of them. This is not a religious war,  it is a war against fundamentalist Islamic terrorists. I value everyone's opinion, and learn a lot reading the discussions and opinions of others. though I may sometimes disagree.

One of the main reasons Bin Laden cited regarding why he attacked us on 9/11 was our military presence in ME specifically bases in Saudi Arabia. He wanted us out. Hey works for me. Saudi's are not our friends. never were.
Let the desert sand swallow the whole country for all I care .

Ron Paul and Thomas Jefferson do have it correct.

Protect our own boarders and stop getting caught up in other countries disputes. Stop regime building and trying to impose democracy on others. stop proliferating our unwanted military presence around the world. If the ME wants democracy they will rise up and secure it for themselves from within.

Our military foreign policy should be one line...
You leave us alone , we'll leave you alone. You attack us , we are more than capable and have the means to defend and we will hunt you down.  We could all take a lesson from the fictional Josey Wales.

I came here to die with you. Or live with you. Dying ain’t so hard for men like you and me, it’s living that’s hard; when all you ever cared about has been butchered or raped. Governments don’t live together, people live together. With governments you don’t always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well I’ve come here to give you either one, or get either one from you... I ain't promising you nothing extra. I'm just giving you life and you're giving me life. And I'm saying that men can live together without butchering one another.

JMHO

Semper fi.

[bilmac]

Sorry, I'm not normally a short fused guy, but Chevington is something that hits close to home. He didn't attack Cheyenne he massacred a friendly bunch of Arapaho. Black Kettle was in the process of complying with the federal gvt's demands. His band had had no part in the trouble that was being fomented by some "radical extremeists" But, because he was complying with the demands of the peacemakers, Chevington knew his camp's location at sand draw. Chev rounded up a bunch of drunks from the Denver bars, and went out and shot  everyone they could catch in the camp. Women, kids, old men waving the American flag were all gunned down in then a lot of "trophies" were cut off the bodies to be displayed back in Denver.

Today the remenants of the Arapaho tribe live next door to me. They were dumped in on top of the Shoshone tribe which was promised the reservation they now have to share. To top it off the whole of the route that the Arapaho were herded up from Colorado is marked with prominent signs which is OK i guess, we should remember our race's sins, but I have never seen a sign or marker in Colorado where the deed was done.

[BBF]

Re Reply#9
 
Of course Canada relies on the USA to defend it. Considering the size of this country and the relative small number of people living here we have no way of protecting ourselves from the likes of the former Soviet Union or present day China.
Canada doesn't have Nukes and we don't want them which takes the target off from our backs in some way.
 
We don't have the economy to allow huge military expenditures. To the best of my knowledge there are no foreign Armies  ready to invade us.
 I'm supporting our present Admin. in Ottawa but do not support their purchase of "Stealth" anything. That by the very nature of the word's meaning implies "sneaky" attacks. I am against meddling in foreign countries internal affairs.
 
Canada has provided Peace Keepers for years and to that extend I support our involvement into foreign affairs only.