Author Topic: Long range handgun suggestions (Read 1816 times)

verzilli · « **on:** December 23, 2011, 07:21:46 AM »

Hey Folks.

Recommend a handgun for me:

357 mag (because I reload for that)
200 yd RANGE shooting ONLY, no hunting (have a 480 Ruger for that)
Prefer a revolver, but is a t/c better?
Best barrel length

I assume a silhouette setup. Under $1000 or a good used one.

Thanks.

kynardsj · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:29:50 AM »

A 15 inch TC Encore in a 308 or 7mm-08 with a scope and bipod will shine at 200 yards and beyond. If just shooting targets you might even consider the same in 223. Good luck on your choice.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2011, 08:13:21 AM »

Are you planning on shooting in competition or do you just want to set up a handgun to shoot groups on paper targets or shoot a gong at 200 yards? What kind of sights--metallic or scope? If you want a revolver, I would either go with a S&W with a 8 3/8" barrel or a the longest barrel Ruger single action I could find. Count on having trigger work done.

Years ago, I belonged to a gun club and some one had hung up at 200 yards, a manhole cover with chains welded to it so it would swing. The rule was cast lead bullets only in either handgun or rifle. That was to keep shooters from using high speed jacketed bullets to keep from blowing the cast iron cover apart. There was a group of us who held handgun matches using (what ever you had) and any sights. We shot off benches using .22 RF to .44 specials. The most consistent winner was an older gentleman using a S&W Model 24. The nice thing about a larger, slower caliber is overcoming wind factor and with tamed recoil is that you can go back into battery easier and quicker. T/C's didn't seem to have an advantage of the other handguns.

My opinion is use what you feel most comfortable shooting.

verzilli · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2011, 08:57:28 AM »

Thanks guys. No rifle calibers for me, sorry! And this is just for fun, no competition. Actually, I would like to goof around "scopeless".

OK, here's a follow-up question: New Taurus 357 with a 8" bbl, a nice used Dan Wesson with the same, or a Ruger Blackhawk 7.5" bbl? Smiths are great, but a bit out of my price range.

kynardsj · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2011, 09:29:54 AM »

OK, no rifle calibers. The 7 1/2 inch Rugers, 8 3/8 inch Smiths an 8 inch Dan Wessons would all work. Also, if Ruger still makes it or you can find a used one, a 10 1/2 inch Super Blackhawk in 44 mag. I had one about 10 years ago that was a great shooter.

gypsyman · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2011, 11:03:55 AM »

verzilli, used both a .357 and a .44 in Dan Wesson revolvers, in 10''in handgun silhouette years back. If you can find one, the original 10'' .357 barrel on the .357DW, had a 1-14 twist. Made it a tack driver with 180 to 200 gr. bullets. On the silhouette range at 200 meters, about the only handgun that could consistently outshoot one, is a Freedom Arms. And a used one of those, in todays world will run you WELL over $1000. If the single action style grip fits you, don't hesitat to pick up a Ruger SBH, in either .357 or .44. Most are pretty accurate, and once in awhile, you'll find one that is exceptional. You can usually find one used at gun shows between $375 to $450, about the going rate for a DW. gypsyman

verzilli · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2011, 11:11:10 AM »

Thanks guys, as always, you are all very informative. My extra Christmas cash has to go somewhere!

Brett · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2011, 04:10:24 AM »

If you can find that nice used Dan Wesson in your price range in .375 that would be a winner. It would also give you the option of swapping out different length barrels.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2011, 05:20:17 AM »

You can always change out the grips. I have owned several Ruger single actions. Love the guns but the grips never fit right. First thing I did was change out the grips.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2011, 05:21:56 AM »

If you want to stay at a low cost then keep your .357 mag dies etc and buy yourself a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 mag. (recommend a 7.5" barrel) If you want to spend a lot of money, then buy a Dan Wesson. I'd stay clear of the Taurus just because I've heard some funny stuff about them...not from any personal experience with them.

If you want to spend a little more money than on a Blackhawk, then get yourself a Thompson Contender and a .357 mag pistol bull barrel. (used - $400 to $450 new - $550ish) With the T/C, you can add calibers. With Blackhawks, you can buy a second revolver in a different caliber and still be under the cost of a nice Dan Wesson. My T/C's tend to shoot better than the Blackhawks: .5" inch better group @ 25 yards or roughly 2" better @ 100 yards. (Calibers tested here as such are .30 carbine and .357 mag)

I've written about the following stuff here a lot in the past so I'll spare you of the long stories. If I can find the links I'll post them. However, I've spent a lot of time in the open desert country of Wyoming shooting and hunting prairie dogs with Blackhawks and Thompson Contenders. It is not difficult to kill a prairie dog at 100 yards and even out to 150 and further with a standard Ruger Blackhawk in any of the following calibers: .357 mag, 38-40 (hot loaded, not standard loads), .44 mag, and .45 Colt (Ruger-T/C loads). My shooting buddy and I have taken many prairie dogs with these calibers using Blackhawks with open sights fairly frequently. These days our biggest problem is finding dogs, not necessarily being able to hit them. We have also played around with shooting at extreme distances with our Blackhawks, including ridiculous distances of some 500 to 600 yards. (Bullets in the air for up to 4 seconds before impact!) Targets were prairie dog mounds which can often cover a six by six foot area. From a standing position we can tinker and actually hit these sized targets with a fair amount of repeatability.
We're not by any means competition shooters nor could we ever stand up to such shooters. I only write this to you because I have been amazed at what one could do with a standard production, run of the mill, low budget Ruger Blackhawk.

OK, these days the Blackhawks aren't that cheap but they still are probably the lowest cost large caliber revolver one could buy from any major manufacturer. I'm just mad that I can't buy them for the $189 that they used to sell for in the late 80's and early 90's. I should have bought one in every caliber back then!

verzilli · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2011, 06:52:17 AM »

Thanks Blackhawker. I am a bit torn, I have a Ruger SRH in 480, and an SP101 in 357, (and a Mark 22/45 that I love). I guess another Ruger 357 revolver is OK (like women's purses and shoes, we NEED all these guns!), but sometimes I think I may want to expand my horizons and go T/C.

I assume a 12-14" bbl in a T/C will add effectiveness compared to 7.5" revolver.

Again, lots of great input from everyone.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2011, 12:56:29 AM »

Quote from: verzilli on December 24, 2011, 06:52:17 AM

Thanks Blackhawker. I am a bit torn, I have a Ruger SRH in 480, and an SP101 in 357, (and a Mark 22/45 that I love). I guess another Ruger 357 revolver is OK (like women's purses and shoes, we NEED all these guns!), but sometimes I think I may want to expand my horizons and go T/C.

I assume a 12-14" bbl in a T/C will add effectiveness compared to 7.5" revolver.

Again, lots of great input from everyone.

My .357 mag T/C barrel is only 10 inches. However, compare loading data and velocities between revolver loads and the closed chamber of a T/C 357 mag with a 10 inch barrel. There is quite a difference in velocity for the same powder charges.

375supermag · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2011, 04:09:53 AM »

If there is no rush to buy a long-range handgun, I would suggest you check GunBroker or some similar sites and search for one of the S&W Silhouette models that they made many years ago. They come with adjustable sights front and rear and are extremely accurate.

I have a stainless M686 Silhouette in .357 mag with an 8-3/8" barrel. It shoots any number of different bullet weights and powder charges very well...some are scary accurate.

There were never very many made and they can be a little spendy when you find one, but they are very nicely made. You will not be disappointed.

How much do I like mine? I have had it for at least 25 years and I wouldn't trade it for any other handgun. In fact, I am hoping to buy its big brother in .44mag some day.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2011, 08:30:17 AM »

357

Here's a link to what to what you are looking for.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/guns-sale-trade/222386-wts-690-00-629-1-8-3-8-barrel-built-scope-mount-made-1-year.html

Saw it on the S-W forum classifieds.

Ladobe · « **Reply #14 on:** December 27, 2011, 06:15:12 AM »

Lots of good suggestions.

For a 200 yard DA revolver my pick would be a S&W Model 29 Silhouette 44MAG 10 5/8" or Model 586 Silhouette 357MAG 8 3/8" model; or for SA a Ruger Super Blackhawk IMSHA Silhouette 500 44MAG 10 1/2". All could be had for up to 100's less than $1000.

A TC Contender 14" 357MAG, 44MAG or 45 Colt with the old Wichita Silhouette sights for Contenders would be the cats meow. The Wichita sights, if you can find a set, would take the price of the Contender higher than the revolvers, but maybe still under your $1000.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2011, 08:26:33 AM »

you noted 357 mag. These are some I saw while shooting IMHSA in 357mag. that worked well.
Ruger redhawk in 357 mag ( yep they made a few)
Virginia Dragoon
Ruger Blackhawk
S&W 27 with 8 3/8 bbl. not sure if a longer bbl ever became aval.
DAn Wesson
Freedom arms ( used may meed your cost numbers ).
Colt

The Freedom arms , Redhawk, Va. Dagroon and Blackhawk all shot loads above standard by their owners.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2011, 02:42:11 PM »

Never could understand why Ruger didn't offer the .357 mag. in the Redhawk as a standard caliber all these years. I never knew they made a limited run. How do you shoot a revolver in IMSHA other than standing or with your knees pulled up to keep from getting burned?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2011, 04:15:08 AM »

I shot creedmore with a leather wrap around my upper leg with a plate in it and a thick wrap around my lower leg . The gun is placed along side the leg . When shooting this way baggie pants are not a good idea . A friend shot thru the leg of his bibs in a match one day .

Dixiejack · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2011, 09:31:37 AM »

I've shot some scheutzen matches in the creedmore stance and my Contender that way. That's why I wonder about shooting a revolver that way w/o getting severe burns and setting your pants on fire. Them gasses be hot.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2011, 01:51:39 AM »

Like I mentioned we used a leather shield with a plate in them. I even had a thick leather sq with straps to hold it on my leg. It works very well. The creedmore position is the most stable .

Ladobe · « **Reply #20 on:** December 29, 2011, 05:04:13 AM »

Ken Light offers leather leg shields for shooting Creedmore position with handguns. I had one all the years I shot IMSHA, and it worked great with revolvers. No straps, just Velcro stripes to hold it on and one size fits all. Didn't need it for the longer barreled Contenders or bolt specialty handguns, but the rough side out leather does keep the barrel in place with them as well. As Shootall said, the Creedmore position is very, very stable, as good as shooting off a bench. Makes 40/40 scores in the unlimited class almost boring, including the shoot-offs. I've used the position hunting as well when the ranges were very long - rock solid.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2011, 05:15:35 AM »

Back on the subject of long range handgun suggestions: One thing I forgot to mention is that whatever choice you make, be sure that the handgun of choice has a very tall front sight.

I had mentioned earlier about shooting at ridiculous distances with Ruger Blackhawks. Ironically, I have better range with my 45 Colt Blackhawk (and other Blackhawks as well) than with my 454 Super Redhawk. I know that sounds crazy because with my SRH I'm shooting 10 grains lighter of a bullet and at about 700 fps higher velocity. One would think that the flatter trajectory of the 454 would have the ability to shoot farther than the hot loaded 45 Colt. Well, OK, yes, it'll shoot farther perhaps but it does you no good if the firearm is not able to calibrate or compensate the distances. I sadly discovered while in the field that the front sight of the SRH is shorter than on my Blackhawk and therefore I cannot calibrate/compensate as much with the shorter front sight as I can with the Blackhawk for shooting long distances. At 200 yards it's not really a problem but anything much farther than that, I'm nearing the bottom of my front sight on the SRH while there is plenty of room left on my Blackhawk.

Verzilli, I hope that makes sense to you. I don't know if you are aware that the front sight can be marked and somewhat calibrated for long distance shooting with a revolver or other handgun. I'm sure some of the other guys here know what I'm talking about.

If you're not certain about what I mean, perhaps Ladobe, Shootall or some of the other more seasoned shooters here can guide you to Elmer Kieth books or other articles written about this kind of thing. I have not read many of them yet discovered this technique on my own.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2011, 05:49:07 AM »

Have some sighting bars added to your front sight and you can increase its usefulness at long range or simply add a taller post.
As for the lighter bullet going faster vs the heavy bullet going slower check the tables on the 3006 vs the 300 win mag. at long yardages.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2011, 06:34:13 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 30, 2011, 05:49:07 AM

Have some sighting bars added to your front sight and you can increase its usefulness at long range or simply add a taller post.

Or one can mark the ridges on the front sight with a fine brush for designated distances.

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 30, 2011, 05:49:07 AM

As for the lighter bullet going faster vs the heavy bullet going slower check the tables on the 3006 vs the 300 win mag. at long yardages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. Of course a competition shooter would.

Yes, slower heavier bullets tend to shoot higher as they are effected by recoil more. The slower bullet takes longer to leave the barrel and being a heavier bullet, there tends to be more recoil and the barrel lifts higher before the bullet leaves the barrel. YUP, discovered that some time ago. Couldn't figure out why at first.

And then there is a momentum effect with heavier bullets as well. They tend to keep their energy over time in flight.
I was just mentioning that there isn't as much front sight to play with on the 454 SRH as there is on the BH, however.

anachronism · « **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2011, 04:52:12 PM »

You don't need a long barrel for long range shooting, or even a large caliber handgun unless you need maximum velocities to put more energy on the target. There are a lot of guys shooting 200 yards gongs with short barrels. Longer barrels would flatten out your trajectory a bit. If you need more impact energy, use a bigger gun. Google "long range handgun gong shooting", and watch people hitting gongs at 200+ yards with all sorts of handguns. Handguns silhouette shooters do it all the time. It just takes practice. Shoot whatever you want. Personally, I found .357 mag Contenders lacking in accuracy at long range, but I've since discovered that there are different generations of 357 mag Contender barrels, and not all of them are desirable for long range. There are some differences in throating, and bore dimensions that didn't work out as well as was expected. You can check out Mike Bellms website for more information, if a Contender is what you're hoping for. It was probably just my luck that the two I had were likely from less successful production runs. If I were going to shoot 200 yards with a .357, I'd scout around for the longest barrelled 686 S&W I could find that had a replaceable front sight. Then I'd replace the front & rear sights with something like Bowens "Rough Country" sights. A good trigger job, and some tuning, then I'd turn my attention to the ammo I'd build for the job. All matched cases, brass, not nickel, trimmed to match. Match primers (or perhaps not), and the best bullets I could find. Honestly, I'd probably cast them myself, just for the extra quality control. Probably an LBT 185 gr FN design, with a gascheck. From there, it's load development and practice.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #25 on:** December 31, 2011, 06:14:37 PM »

See if you can find a S&W M686-3 Silohuette model.
I have one, it has a 6" barrel and the front sight has 4 positions for different ranges.
I have mine sighted in for 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards with the 158 grain Soft points I shoot.
Other than that A T/C contender with a 10 to 14" barrel.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #26 on:** January 01, 2012, 03:47:43 AM »

mcwd,
Wasn't that 686 made with an 8 3/8 barrel with the adj. front sight? That would be nice to have. I know you enjoy that adjustable front sight.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** January 01, 2012, 04:47:58 AM »

Quote from: Dixiejack on January 01, 2012, 03:47:43 AM

mcwd,
Wasn't that 686 made with an 8 3/8 barrel with the adj. front sight? That would be nice to have. I know you enjoy that adjustable front sight.

Mine is a 6" They may have made them but I think the Model 29 came with an 8 3/8 or a 10".

Dixiejack · « **Reply #28 on:** January 01, 2012, 07:12:28 AM »

The 6" is more versatile as a carry gun. I look up both the 686 and 586 in google and Wikipedia came up with a list shoe both as having been offered by S&W with an 8 3/8" barrel. I really like that silohuette sight.

Hit or Miss · « **Reply #29 on:** January 01, 2012, 01:36:20 PM »

Dixiejack, the 8 3/8 S&W 686 set up for silhouette shooting did have an adjustable front sight. I had one and let it go several years ago. Kinda miss it but still don't have a good use for it.