Author Topic: Basic Socialism..for dummies...  (Read 745 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« on: December 25, 2011, 12:49:14 PM »
Basic Socialism for dummies;
   AN economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because
[/b]when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
It could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Gary G

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2011, 04:37:18 PM »
Good lesson Ironglow!
Mises wrote in 1928 that socialism could not stand. One reason is as your example, and the other is the impossibility of economic calculation in a socialist society. History has proven him right.


The other system is a combination of the two between capitalism and socialism. He called it interventionism. It is where the means of production is privately owned, but controlled by central planning as in government regulations, laws, bailing out failed businesses and control of interest rates, which is the price of money. He wrote that this was unsustainable too in the long run. I think we are seeing that now.
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline ironglow

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 01:28:24 AM »
Gary;
  #1 problem right now;
  We have so-called "leadership" who are promoting "bickering, blame and name-calling"...and they are doing it for political expediency.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Gary G

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 04:08:39 AM »
Gary;
  #1 problem right now;
  We have so-called "leadership" who are promoting "bickering, blame and name-calling"...and they are doing it for political expediency.

But, if we have compromise, what do we get? More bad laws.


A free market economy is self correcting. Government interventionism is to prevent the correction, thus extending the problem and making it worse.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHry1dK7ZLs&feature=player_embedded
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline ironglow

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 05:28:04 AM »
MMMMmmmmm... ::) .. Wish it was all that simple as your dialectic in post #1 posits, or just leaving corporatrions alone to do what they want.. But it isn't that simple.
See Matthew 24:31-46 for example....
..TM7
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
     TM;
    What in the world does a prophetic description of the rapture (parousia) have to do with the ignorance of socialism ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2011, 06:44:30 AM »
Oh! that explains it TM..your scripture verses were from Matthew 25...not Matthew 24..
 
   Yes, at first glance it looks like an endorsement of socialism.  But a closer study reveals that there is no government agency peeking around to demanding you do the charitable works.  Also there is no government agency taking $20 from the taxpayer and filtering $3 down to the needy person.  Let's face it, govt taxing us so they can grant favors..is them taking our money to buy votes !
   No; it is much more like Jesus to expect us to voluntarily do these charitable acts on our own, without compunction.  Historically, people helped the unfortunate through local churches, or local and county govt..but not any higher.  When the state & fed govt started interfering in a grossly inefficent way ...they killed local charity.
  In an organized manner, the Salvation Army is an example of a sensible, voluntary charity.  There is room for more, but only if they are honest and open, not providing lucrative jobs for a select few, people can "see through" that !
  To cut to the quick..Jesus never endorsed socialism...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Hooker

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 04:27:07 PM »
IG context is everything unless one is a liberal ;)
For those who didn't grasp the difference between the charity that Jesus spoke of and socialism.
Charity is about giving what is yours
Socialism is about taking what isn't yours


Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
-Mark Twain
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 05:22:21 PM »
IG context is everything unless one is a liberal ;)
For those who didn't grasp the difference between the charity that Jesus spoke of and socialism.
Charity is about giving what is yours
Socialism is about taking what isn't yours


Pat
Great reply, and right to the point!
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Gary G

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 05:20:32 AM »
TM, surely Jesus would not condone theft. For any government agency to help the poor directly, it would have to first take by force those resources from others that it would give them. I cannot do this because is is theft. For the government it is legalized theft, but still theft. (from Bastiat, The Law, 1848)


They can help the poor by spending and taxing less so that there is more wealth left with the people to be voluntarily given.
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat

Offline ironglow

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 12:06:29 PM »
  I hear about these children here in America who are "going hungry"..  Still; we in trhe US have a very aggressive 'safety net' in place to see that children do not starve.  people are given some pretty good welfare checks for free, then there is WIC and several other assistance scams I have probably never heard of, say nothing of used.
   If many children are going hungry, then there must be many people collecting charitable money which is NOT going to feed their children...so why do we never hear of these spongers going to jail for fraud and child neglect ?  Child abuse, in the form of starvation should certainly carry with it, a hefty prison time..  A man woud get serious time for starving a horse, wouldn't he !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline bilmac

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2011, 04:55:16 AM »
I notice a lot of liberals delight in telling us what Jesus really meant when he said things.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 06:51:04 PM »
I notice a lot of liberals delight in telling us what Jesus really meant when he said things.
.
I think it is always a good occassion when anybody, be they libber-conservative or whatever, take time to contemplate and discuss the wisdom of Jesus....don't you?
 
..TM7
For a change I agree, but I can read the bible myself.  I agree with bilmac, and don't need someone with a liberal outlook on how life should really be, telling me what Jesus really meant when he said something. 
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 12:28:30 AM »
OldSchoolRanger;
   
     #1     
               ...Why should those who study the Bible as a regular practice, pay any heed to those who regularly scoff at the Bible, but find a solitary verse or two which they can parse toward their position ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline bilmac

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 04:39:24 AM »
If you haven't read "Atlas Shrugged"  you should. I haven't finished it yet, but it lays out a very good prophecy about the result of socialism. The only reason her prophecy hasn't come true yet is because there have been good people in America, unfortunately the number who think rather than drink the kool aid growing smaller every day.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Basic Socialism..for dummies...
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 02:47:17 PM »
Socialism is a dead end ..The Pilgrims found out, and the Oneida & Amana communities discovered it to be a fraud.  The Soviet Union found out, East Germany found out, the eastern block of Europe knew it but had a struggle throwing off the Soviet yoke.  Cuba now knows, and North Korea now knows, but the people are having difficulty extricating themselves.  ...And West Europeans & Venezuelans are just finding it out...
 
 
  Seems like the only ardent Communists left are in Hollywood and our Universities...well, maybe some in congress also.. ;) :D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)