Author Topic: Oil Change Schedule  (Read 3207 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2012, 03:15:37 AM »
It's not legal...I'm just sayin'
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2012, 05:56:48 PM »
My plan is a 10k oil change with a filter change at 5k. Thanks for all the info Larry.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline LanceR

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2012, 07:54:30 AM »
We live in Upstate NY and our car is mostly used by Nancy to go to work or the grocery store both of which are a whopping 4 miles one way so it gets 3-4000 mile oil and filter changes.  It doesn't get run far enough often enough to really dry out so I sometimes use it for a day or two to put some longer trips on it.

My F-350 (7.5L gas) finally got retired recently at 304,000 miles when the transmission croaked a second time.  It got 3-4000 oil changes because it got worked around the farm, in our construction business, pulled a 36' 12,000 pound fifth wheel RV and spent a lot of time idling.  The engine still started and ran fine but it was using roughly 3/4 quart between oil changes and more in cold weather or if it had been idling a lot.

Our big trucks get the oil changed when an oil analysis tells me to.  At 22 to 42 quarts of oil I don't want to do it more often than I need to.  They all have bypass coolant filters and either bypass oil filters or Spinner II centrifuges.  The oil tends to stay almost as clean looking as the day it went in and the filter/centrifuge keeps the soot loading from being an issue.  Since they spend a lot of time working off road and at lower RPMs we occasionally park them in neutral and set the hand throttles up some and close the radiator covers to get them hot enough to dry out.  The cooling systems are so over sized that we run them with the covers mostly closed anyway or they don't get hot enough to open the thermostats and a hot engine is a happy engine.

We don't change coolant on a fixed schedule either.  We test it often and keep the additives up.  When we do change it we flush with three changes of distilled water to be sure to get all the old coolant out.

If you do put a bypass filter on your coolant or oil then try this; when you change the filter the first time cut it in half and look at what the filter took out of the engine or cooling system.  You'll find casting sand in the coolant filter and a remarkable amount of crud and boogers in both.  You'll never be without a bypass filter again either.

Overall we spend about 25-30% of the money on oil and coolant that we did before going to bypass filters or centrifuges.  We even have bypass filters on our Lincoln Ranger 8 welder/generator, our SA-200 pipeline welder and our other generators and APUs.  A lot of our stuff is in daily use and since we started using them we have had zero, and I do mean zero, lubrication related failures or excessive wear issues. 

My next pickup truck will get coolant and oil bypass filters, too.  I may even install a remote bypass filter for the transmission.  Our experience has been that they are all great insurance against excessive engine and transmission wear.

Here's a line to the service ratings and grades for motor oil.  http://www.upmpg.com/motor_oil_rate_gas.htm

I know of no federal regulations against burning waste motor oil.  Regulations do vary by state though.  A neighbor on the next road sells waste oil furnaces and has done so for many years.  Most of his customers are bus garages, car repair shops, large trucking outfits and municipalities.  He makes a pretty good living at it.

Three of our trucks have multi-fuel engines.  Two of those don't leave the farm and are run solely on used motor oil that has seen several passes though a centrifuge.  You can use used motor oil as a highway fuel but must keep appropriate records and pay the federal and state highway taxes. 

Lance

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2012, 08:24:52 AM »
Burning used motor oil is not illegal where I live, only in swampmans mind.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2012, 10:16:02 AM »
Burning used motor oil is not illegal where I live, only in swampmans mind.

Cheese


I did a little research before responding.  So far the only place I've found it illegal is California.  Some states allow with restrictions, some none.
 
Oh well, back to the OP subject.
 
Ben
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2012, 05:41:38 PM »
You can burn it, if you have a permit issued by the state.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2012, 06:02:40 PM »
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2012, 07:12:24 AM »
Goes to show ya just how incredibly stupid the folks in Kalifornia can be. What do these morons think happens to the oil you take back after using it? Do they think it magically disappears into environmentalhell.? It goes back thru the Chevron ISO/SYN process where it comes out as a quality grade of GPII+ or GPIII synthetic base, difference being the Viscosity Index. There are quite a few blenders using the recycled oil now. Note, most of the motor oils you buy are not from makers but blenders. Castrol, Mororcraft, Kendall, Phillips, 76,Amsoil, Royal Purple, and a bunch of others do not make their products, they buy the components and blend them. Doesn't make them bad, just they have zero control over the quality of the products used to make it. Fords Motorcraft is very precise in their formulations and samples must be submitted before they actually turn it loose for sale. If you are questioning the oil you are using or would just like to know how it stacks up from a quality, as marketed, viewpoint, go here:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/indexmain.html


Cheesehead, if you still want to consider the 10,000 mile oil change, might consider Mobils Extended Performance oil or Pennzoil Ultra. The Ultra is the better formulation for yer Triton. You do not need to change the filter at 5000 miles. The Tritons are a very clean burning engine and just don't make the contaminants that would warrant changing the filter early. Even at 15,000 miles the average Triton Motorcraft filter still has capacity. AVOID Fram filters with yer Triton. Ford and GM both have TSBs concerning oil related failures and the Fram filters. The makers will not stand behind their warranties if you should have an oil related failure and a Fram filter. In your Triton, they've found pieces of the media in the VCT system which causes failures of the OHV system due to the oil restrictions. In some cases the engine was not salvageable at all including rebuild.


Most large fleets take their used motor oils and put it in the depots fuel tanks. It doesn't create any issues but the percentages of fuel to motor oil are small so it's a non-issue for them.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2012, 08:43:01 AM »
It's not legal...I'm just sayin'

There are commerical heaters used in shops that are UL listed for burning motor oil and can be installed in accordance with manf. directions. Also there are many heating systems that burn bunker oil or #6 oil most call tar.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2012, 09:44:06 AM »
That's fine, but they emit heavy metals (from the engine oil) both into the room where they are at, and into the environment outside.  It's not a legally acceptable way to get rid of used motor oil.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2012, 10:21:19 AM »
Get on the net and read , the combustion chambers are sealed on the ones I have seen and some have catalytic converters . We aren't talking a 55 gal drum with a drip carburater on it  ;) .
You want to ponder legal and good try this on . In Va. there are dumps that are sealed to the ground. The water in them is collected as it cannot go into the ground. So they take this water and add it to cooling tower water supplies and evaporate it into the air , go figure  :o ::) ???
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Offline ihookem

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2012, 03:55:35 PM »
Larry, it is so nice to hear from someone who really knows. I read a lot  about oil, and Amsoil. I have some questions about Amsoil and other sythetics. Is Amsoil that good? Are  their filters that good that you can change them every 25k with 25k oil changes? Also, are oil analysis accurate and can they be trusted? I am going to believe what you say about oil anyway cause I really don't know what to believe for sure.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2012, 05:28:14 PM »
Interesting question about Amsoil and it always rattles up the Amsoil dealers. They have various lines of oils. They have just recently reformulated and renamed all of their oils. The OE oils are just a Gp III based oils and are not all that good. Not saying they are bad, just for the premium price you pay you should expect premium results- it doesn't deliver. Their top of the line oil Signature series is the one that they claim you can go the extended changes but if you read the small print, you have to do it with analysis along the way. You can get reports from a variety of places besides Amsoil. Blackstone Labs has a free sample kit but the report is $22.50. Most any CAT dealer will have a fluids analysis department and they would be comparable in price.  But you need to go the extra mile and get the advanced report which includes the TBN and TAN which costs extra. Now comes the key to this, getting a report is not an exact science. The test is subject the guy running and calibrating the spectroscopy machine. It is acceptable for it to be 10% off which means it can have a 20% spread. Not exactly accurate. Getting reports are about trending, not a specific test. Getting one test tells you about the mechanical like a gasket leaking coolant but it really doesn't say that much about the overall performance of the oil. It takes several reports to tell if the oil is performing function and if it's the right oil for your application. Most normally, a blended oil yields the lowest wear metals. If you are looking for extended changes to keep a vehicle on the road, it can be a valuable maintenance tool. If you think because it's so expensive the engine will last longer- you'd be wrong. If you make short trips, avoid it or expect sludge. If you are in a cold humid area during the winter months, avoid any synthetic unless you just have arctic cold start conditions. Then you need an engine heater, not a trick oil. Synthetic oils are not naturally corrosion resistant. There has to be additives for this. Some are lacking the polar properties to keep the oil film on the parts and a tackifier is used, again, another additive. Usually you will see higher iron levels in analysis during winter months and synthetic based oils. It's not actually a wear metal but corrosion. So if you factor in the cost of the oil, their filter, and at least 3 full reports, it's not something that's a cheap date. You can buy LOTS of good oil changes for the same money. For most folks, Amsoil is a gimmick.


Amsoil filters are good filters. But they have no more capacity than any filter out there. Capacity is the issue with any filter for any kind of extended oil change schedule and like I said previously, they all are a compromise. If we are talking gas engines, the newer engines of Ford and GM are very clean burning engines, they don't make the contaminants that we saw just 15 years ago. Most any quality brand filter will go the distance with an Amsoil primary filter because of the engine technology, not the filter technology. If we are talking diesel, any extended oil change program must include a by-pass filter. The Amsoil by-pass unit is just as good as any out there and the availability of the elements makes it a favorite.


I hope this was helpful.

Offline ihookem

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2012, 01:53:37 PM »
Thanks, Larry. I have the 05 duramax.  I have been using Amsoil series 3000 5w30. i use the Amsoil filter. I have been getting the oil reports every 15k and changing filters every 15k. The oil report and the oil analysis tech insist the oil is still good even at 35k. I hesitate to even say I went that long. At 39k I changed it. I know some will think I'n nuts. I'm afraid I am too. I am the kind of guy who uses science and people who know what they are talking about so I ask people like you. The engine has 176k and burns almost no oil, about 1qt. every 10k unless I'm pulling, then about 1qt. every 3-5k. By now I think the motor would be an oil burner if it was bad oil. I think I'm done with this experiment though of extended drains. What you have said it ain't worth the risk. I might run  mineral oil with a good filter. But what kind of diesel oil? Shell Rotella, Delvac, who knows if it matters much.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2012, 02:56:07 PM »
Here's an issue with any diesel, a lot of the labs attempt to use TBN only as the deciding factor if the oil still has life left in it. That can get you into a lot of acid damage in an engine. You MUST use the TAN as a factor. Normally any oil that has TAN twice that of the TBN is spent oil. You also have to look at the nitration and oxidation levels along with fuel dilution. If you just ride down the road a lot with the Duramax, you're probably not generating any high numbers unless there is an issue in the mechanicals of the engine. But if this engine is working a lot, you need to watch all of the factors, not just the TBN. I hope with that long run you have a by-pass filter.


FWIW, that Duramax with 176,000 miles on it is just getting broke in good. With good maintenance you can expect another 250,000 miles out of it....if you don't get sick of the truck first. Most folks get tired of the nit pickin stuff cratering on a Duramax, like the window regulators, the A/C system, etc. and then trade it off with lots of life still left under the hood.


 Any of the major brands of Dual rated oils like Rotella, Delvac, and Delo are great oils. I would recommend the Delo over the others only from a formulation viewpoint. The Delo is a better built oil today but as I posted previously, formulations change several times a year so pick one you can buy cheap, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Offline tt4617

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2012, 08:32:05 AM »
My new Toyota is 10,000 miles with fully synthetic oil from the factory.

Offline ihookem

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2012, 06:05:47 AM »
So Larry, it seems a semi synthetic is just as good as group lV synthetic . Also, you stated real synthetics has it's place in very cold climates. This is why I went with Amsoil 5w30  with my diesel. I do start it, run it 40-50 mi. and engine never gets cold all day. So a Semi synthetic is just as good in this case? Also, I went with synthetic is cause I hear the engine stays cleaner and oil ports don't get the build up like group 1 and 2 oils. Is this true or does it depend on the additive package in the mineral oils themselves?  Just wondering,.

Offline Peshtigo71

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2012, 09:50:23 AM »
    I have to agree with Graybeard and Swampy.   I change my oil every 5000 miles and the engine stays very clean.  It's not pushing the life of the motor oil or filter too far and the 5000 is an easy number to remember when it comes time to change the oil.
 
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men; every one could sling a stone at a hair's breadth and not miss.  Judges 20:16

Offline charles p

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2012, 03:25:20 AM »
What about small engines that don't get used often.  For instance, I have a gasoline pressure washer and a gasoline generator.  Might not use either for two years.  I usually change oil after extensive use, but that clean oil sits in the crankcase 2+ years sometimes.  Is this something to worry about?  I drain the fuel after each use.
In the case of the pressure washer, I could change the oil before each use, but then I would have a crankcase full of old oil sitting in the block.  Never know when the generator might get used and changing it before using could be very difficult (in the dark during a storm).

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2012, 05:21:33 AM »
When is the last time you heard of an oil related engine failure?


I'm not refering to an engine design related oil failure, ala the Toyota sludgeing problem. Not a I run my engine on a quart and a half of oil all the time, I just forget to fill it thing. I'm talking a plain old "my cam bearings were shot or the cam lobes wore off" type of failure, the rings were gone, cylinders were honed to the point it just wouldn't seal.


It does happen, meteors crash through houses and kill people too. If people were changing too infrequently it would be commonplace. What has been commonplace for me is the truck rots away from the engine. I'm putting the cost of two out of three oil changes into washes and waxing, chassis bushings, shocks, and the myriad of things that make a 200k truck seem old and undesireable. The drivetrain is the least of my worries, and the engine the least of those.


Then again I drive and own Fords.  8) ;D   You may well experience problems with other makes.  ;)


 
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Offline charles p

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2012, 11:32:30 AM »
My 2005 Chev Z-71 just went through a torque converter and transmission at 83K.  A belt was shot too.  Engine is solid and very clean.  Still gets 19 mpg.  Wish I had changed the transmission strainer and fluid a few months ago, but it is synthetic and not supposed to need a change.  GM did give me a $200 rebate (good for 2006 and older transmission changes).

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2012, 02:03:28 AM »
We change trans fluid every 50000 miles on gas trucks and 25000 in diesel trucks . We use syn fluid in them.
The only transmission problems since the switch has been chevy , both in the 80000 mile range .
 
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Offline Larry L

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2012, 08:21:23 AM »
Ihookem, the problem is that there are few PAOs left on the market anymore since Katrina. A lot of production was taken off of the market with down refineries. Most reformulated and because the ethylene gas used to make it is getting harder to find and expensive, they just never went back to it. Most are using a high VI splash at best with the Gp III/+ severely hydrocracked oils making the biggest percentage of the base oil. If you just wanted to stay with Amsoil, the Heavy Duty 10w-30 diesel oil is a dandy and we recommend it to a lot of fleets where maintenance down time is money. The difference in cold start condition is only 7F and there's more differences between engines than that. Otherwise the Delo is right there with it for cold start conditions. With the newer specs on the oils there's little in the way of deposits allowed like oils of just a few years ago. The newer CI+4 and CJ oils are very clean in that regards. There is a hairs more solvency in a PAO than a Gp III/+ but it's not enough to make a real difference. AVOID any of the engine cleaners as most are solvent based and strip lubrication. About the only one I recommend and it's expensive is Auto-Rx. It's a lanolin ester similar to the esters used in some of the high mileage oils. It's a fabulous cleaner and will help with leaking seals that have a slow drip but it's like anything else, it can only do so much. But it is a good, but slow cleaner and seal conditioner. If you go to their website, skip the advertising BS, it's a cleaner and seal conditioner, nothing more. Maybe one of these days Green Technologies will really get their act together and put their ester based diesel rated oils out. The G-Oil is a fabulous cleaner and a decent oil especially when it's almost free with their coupons. If you ever see it, there's the oil for cleaning an engine. Their gas formulation, in my opinion, is not a premium price formulation- it's ho-hum at best but the base oil has tremendous solvency and as such will be great for cleaning.


In regards to transmission fluids. Mecon V, Dextron VI are the same now. GM and Ford have been swapping transmission technologies for a couple of years and the fluids are the same. Both, and including ATF+3, are synthetic Gp III based oils regardless of brand as long as it wears one of the big three certifications on the bottle. Buying and paying for a branded label synthetic buys you nothing but a lighter wallet. ATFs have a frictional co-efficient that is proprietary and the maker does not have to share that info with the after market blenders. I'd suggest changing ATF every 30,000 miles and use nothing but the auto makers brand fluid, like GM Dextron, Ford Mercon, Dodge ATF+3 and skip brands like Mobil, Amsoil, Valvoline, etc. For Charles P, I'd get the fluid changed at yer earliest convenience if you want long transmission life.


In regards to engines that sit. I have a garage full of old cars. One, for an example, is a one owner 1989 LSC with a 5.0 making a factory 325 HP. It's a fairly rare care or I guess I should say, rare engine from Ford. It's a garage queen and has never seen rain. The speedo says it has 34,000 miles on the clock.Obviously the car looks, drives, and smells new. The current oil in it has less than a 1000 miles on it and is 5 years old now. I pull it every year and do spectroscopy on it to make sure something hasn't gone wrong. It's still fine with decent wear metals, low shearing, etc. The oil is Chevron Supreme and is a blend 5w-30. You get the best of all of the characteristics of the base oils with the blends. Low corrosion, good lubricity, stable with no additive fallout, just good oil. If you have an engine that sits a lot, avoid any of the synthetics. Otherwise the probabilistic are high you'll see corrosion go thru the roof. All motor oils are a synergistic blend. ALL base oils have good and bad characteristics. Synthetics at one time were great at high heat but the dino based oils have caught up. Synthetics are not prone to staying on the parts when the engine shuts down. They employ tackifiers for this but it can only do so much over time. Some synthetics are built to be polar attracted to the parts to solve the issue but then the film strength is so great that they have to use something like alkylated naphthalene to cut it otherwise the additive package can't get in to its job and wear is increased. With the blends, these problems go away as the best of all of the base oils come already in the bottle.


I get asked everyday it seems as to which is the best oil. The best oil out there is API certified of the correct viscosity for your engine and fresh. So pick a brand, don't pay a lot for it, make sure it meets the auto makers certifications, sit back and enjoy the ride. You trusted the maker enough to buy his product, trust him enough that he knows what is the best for your engine. He engineered it, built it, and designed the lube system. It stands to reason he knows more what's good for your engine than anybody.

Offline pastorp

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Re: Oil Change Schedule
« Reply #53 on: February 29, 2012, 07:58:03 AM »
Well let's see here. Change oil every 10,000 miles you say. That's about every 10 years for me. Yup that works for me.  ;D

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

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