Author Topic: Cleaner  (Read 1876 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline sgtt

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 556
Cleaner
« on: December 27, 2011, 06:44:08 AM »
New to this game.  What is the consenus as to what is the best cleaner for swabbing the bore at the range?
"Freedom, for some, is problematic.  It does not grant emancipation from responsibility."

Offline Busta

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2586
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 09:45:01 AM »
That depends on what powder you are using. Black Powder? Pyrodex? American Pioneer Powder/Shockey's Gold? Triple Se7en? Blackhorn 209?
U.S.A.F. Veteran
NRA Life Member

Offline Semisane

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 569
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 03:33:55 PM »
I use a patch very lightly dampened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol, regardless of the powder being used.
CLICK ON ME: .
Link to... highchairstands@cox.net

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 03:39:10 PM »
I prefer Windex or any cheap window cleaner.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 04:20:49 PM »
I agree with Busta, different powders will clean up best with certain things...
 
For me, I like good old #13 simply because its convenient. Soalk a patch and up and down the barrel, followed with a dry patch. I have also used the pre treated T/C bore butter patches. They are OK for the cleaner BP substitutes but useless for real BP... ::)
 
With my traditional BP arms, once at home its into the bathroom for the cleaning at the "Jon" followed by good old pipping hot water followed with bore butter swabs. My in-lines don't see the water as they are scoped and it gets more messy.
 
Many traditionalists will never let a petroleum product touch the barrel. Personally I would not go that far, but as a general rule, I do avoid them.
 
CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline thunderhead

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2011, 02:08:43 AM »
I shoot Blackhorn 209. No need to swab.

Offline sgtt

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 556
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2011, 02:14:50 AM »
I have some pyrodex, BH209 & Goex FF.  I like the window cleaner idea.  I would guess that one should avoid the ammonia based products?
"Freedom, for some, is problematic.  It does not grant emancipation from responsibility."

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2011, 03:43:02 AM »
I use ammonia based and even windshield washer fluid.  It's really cheap.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline alleyyooper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 03:43:03 AM »
Were talking swabing between shots at the range I'm guessing.
I like a just damp Isopropyl alcohol patch or a patch useing windex with the alcohol in it.
I even have used the pads you can buy by the box that come in their own packet. I keep a 2 gallon bucket beside the shooting bench to place the used ones and the packet they came.
 ;D   Al
Garden View Apiaries, where the view is as sweet as the honey.

http://oldgrumpy.fanspace.com

Offline LanceR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 420
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 04:09:07 AM »
I would guess that one should avoid the ammonia based products?

Ammonia will lead to corrosion of left in the bore for more than a short while and if you don't get it out of every nook and cranny.  I don't know if that would be a problem over a short range session with a cleaning right after firing but I suspect it is better to be safe than sorry.

I've used black powder, Triple 7, Pyrodex and Blackhorn 209 in my standard muzzleloaders but usually shoot a Savage smokeless powder gun.

As already stated, BH209 does not need swabbing between shots.  It is what I've used for 4-5 years now in standard muzzleloading rifles for everything but round balls.

For the other powders I've always used the traditional spit patch.  A cotton patch dampened with a little spit has been traditional for centuries.  Run it all the way down to the breech plug and if you are using Triple 7 be sure to get the crud ring down near the breech plug.  You'll feel the swab break through it.  Then use short strokes near the bottom of the bore until you don't feel the resistance of the fouling and start using increasingly longer strokes to get the rest of the bore until you reach the muzzle while going all the way to the breech plug with each stroke.  You might be surprised how much more fouling is on the patch when you swab this way as opposed to using full length stokes from the start.

With this method you'll spend most of the swabbing effort in the breech area which is where most of the fouling is concentrated.

I have used patches with a little Bore Butter on them for particularly tight fitting sabot/bullet combinations but usually just switch to a different thickness sabot to be free of the hassle. 

If your patches are coming out with a lot of particulate matter or a lot of the glassy looking Triple 7 crud you would be well advised to snap a cap after swabbing and before loading to be sure you didn't push crud into the flash channel of the breech.

If you rifle loads hard with a sabot/bullet and a clean or freshly swabbed bore you should consider changing sabots.  There is no standard for bore dimensions in the muzzleloading industry and bore diameters are all over the place.  Companies like Harvester Muzzleloading with their Crushed Rib sabots and Magnum Muzzleloading products make sabots that accommodate varying bore diameters.  You can order directly from both companies.

I know your question was about range cleaning but since you are new to the process I'll add this:

After the range session BH209 cleans with regular powder solvents such as Hoppe's. 

For the other powders I boil 2 quarts or so of water in a saucepan and pout half into a second pan.  I put that pan on a folded towel set on the kitchen floor.  The towel keeps the pan from sliding around and catches any spills.  I add a little dish soap, submerge the muzzle and swab the bore with a mop until the bore is clean and the steel is screaming hot.  I then use the clean hot water pan to rinse the soap out and confirm that the bore is truly clean. 

The residual heat dries the steel in a minute or so and insures that there won't be any cleaning related corrosion after the fact.  The whole process takes about two minutes after the breech plug is out and the water is hot.  I then ream the primer fouling out of the breech plug with a hand held drill bit and clean the plug in the still hot water with an old toothbrush.  BTW, I recommend wearing gloves if you have to touch the steel during cleaning.  (Don't ask...)

If you can switch to Blackhorn 209 both the swabbing at the range and the water clean up will be a thing of the past.  It makes very little smoke so you won't loose sight of your target either.

In any case, buying a separate "range rod" with a T handle on it will make life more enjoyable for both loading at the range and cleaning afterward.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and welcome to the sport.

Lance

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 04:52:17 AM »
I've never had a bit of trouble.  The ammonia neutralizes the sulfuric acid created by the black powder and subs.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline LanceR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 420
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2011, 01:16:05 AM »
Swampman, I've never used ammonia based cleaners for anything other than copper fouling on competition rifles. I realize they are a lot stronger solutions than what you are talking about.  I also realize that we usually flush out a muzzleloader in cleaning it but I was expressing caution only because of my ignorance and because other things have worked for me.

What kind of solution are you using?

Lance

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 02:57:30 AM »
Straight Windex right out of the bottle.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Jim_Ole_Timer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 07:42:19 AM »
I use a patch very lightly dampened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol, regardless of the powder being used.

I also use this. Works good.
Protect our constitution, all of it. Our kids future depends on it. And please teach them Conservatism.

Offline mrjbloomington

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 09:21:49 AM »
I use a 50/50 mix windex and alcohol. then a dry patch. works great.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 09:24:30 AM »
I use a patch very lightly dampened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol, regardless of the powder being used.

I also use this. Works good.

It sure is good for removing stock finish.  That's why I don't use it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ceadersavage2

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
  • Gender: Male
  • Love to have live 200 years ago
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 12:16:15 PM »
Window wash cleaner been useing this sence the 80s work every time

Offline Jim_Ole_Timer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2011, 06:36:21 AM »
I use a patch very lightly dampened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol, regardless of the powder being used.

I also use this. Works good.

It sure is good for removing stock finish.  That's why I don't use it.

Not a problem for me. I always remove the stock, I thought everyone did?   ;D
Protect our constitution, all of it. Our kids future depends on it. And please teach them Conservatism.

Offline DennyRoark

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 501
  • Gender: Male
    • The Ohio Outdoorsman
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 07:55:12 AM »
At the range, a spit patch followed by 2 dry ones.
End of the day, Good Ol' #13 works well for me.  Bore left dry for short term storage, lightly oiled for long term.  Alcohol followed by dry patches when going from long term storage to the range or hunting to get the oil out.
Denny Roark
Member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals)
The Second Amendment...the one that makes all the others possible
I have no problems with vegetarians...I eat them regularly-Ted Nugent
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

Offline hillbill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 09:14:55 AM »
i never have figured out why some guys use all kind of fancy stuff you have to buy just to clean a bp gun. hot soapy water has always worked fine for me. id imagine just hot water would work as well but i always add a little soap. i have used the window cleaner for range swabbing or quick clean up when i cant get home quick as i like. what would yu imagine our fore fathers used?

Offline spooked

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2011, 09:37:53 AM »
i never have figured out why some guys use all kind of fancy stuff you have to buy just to clean a bp gun. hot soapy water has always worked fine for me. id imagine just hot water would work as well but i always add a little soap. i have used the window cleaner for range swabbing or quick clean up when i cant get home quick as i like. what would yu imagine our fore fathers used?
[/quote

pi..er urine! ;)
Lost between sunrise and sunset yesterday-one golden hour...never to be found or reclaimed:-(

Offline OldSchoolRanger

  • Trade Count: (60)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2742
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2012, 07:27:59 PM »

For swabbing the bore at the range and for cleaning of normally dirty guns, Birchwood Casey No 77 Muzzle Magic Cleaner.

For really dirty guns, use the BC cleaner at the range followed by hot boiling water and soap, when I get home. 
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2012, 01:09:05 AM »
Our forefathers had their rifling recut as often as once a year.  They used tepid water as they knew that hot soapy water causes rust.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1700
  • Gender: Male
    • Buckskins & Black Powder
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2012, 07:25:30 AM »
recut due to wear the constant rubbing with the ramrod did, Plus they had super soft steel back then as well which sped up the wear process.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2012, 08:43:19 AM »
And so cleaning wasn't the issue for them that it is for us.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 11:05:20 AM »
  They used tepid water as they knew that hot soapy water causes rust.

OK this gave me quite a chuckle....
So WARM/room temp water (Tepid) is good while HOT water with soap is bad as it causes more rust...  :-\ :-\ :-\
 
Care to elaborate Swamp?
 
CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Busta

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2586
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2012, 04:39:45 PM »
Our forefathers had their rifling recut as often as once a year.  They used tepid water as they knew that hot soapy water causes rust.

 
They also had barrels made of iron, not modern GBQ steel.  ???
U.S.A.F. Veteran
NRA Life Member

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2012, 11:47:01 PM »
  They used tepid water as they knew that hot soapy water causes rust.

OK this gave me quite a chuckle....
So WARM/room temp water (Tepid) is good while HOT water with soap is bad as it causes more rust...  :-\ :-\ :-\
 
Care to elaborate Swamp?
 
CW

Hot, wet, oil free, steel rust quicker than just wet steel.  Soap is caustic.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2012, 08:48:22 AM »
True enough but who leaves the gun dripping wet with soapy water? :o  ;)

It's washed with hot soapy water because COLD water doesn't work! You need the warmth to loosen the fouling. Then once the fouling is gone you follow with piping hot water. Because piping hot water evaporates rather quickly leaving dry hot steel that can be treated or left alone as it will not rust with out something else on it to creat a reaction that rust results from.

I know you know this stuff.... ::)

BUT the question was quick clean on the range. It's rather unlikely one would have warm or hot water there anyhow! ;)

CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cleaner
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 10:09:46 AM »
Tepid water works just fine.  Dry hot steel rust rather quickly.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~