State employees don't buy cars made by American car companies??

[jcn59]

I just drove past our local government building and noticed the outstanding support those employees give to foreign-owned car companies.   It made me wonder if it is the nature of state union employees to pay union dues and not buy cars made by American car companies.  Seems kind of conflictual.  Of course, the unions don't really mind as long as those "dues" are paid.
 
What do you think about their choice of cars?
 
When I was young in Wisconsin, we had American Motors in Kenosha and Fischer Body in Janesville, both good employers, both gone now.  Many others, too, I bet.  I knew people who worked at those plants.  They wouldn't be caught dead in a foreign car.  Their grandchildren drive Toyotas and Hondas, and are all unemployed now.
 

[blind ear]

I bet you can't find US car company that isn't cross invested or sister product  with some foriegn company. Why be loyal to a company that isn't loyal to it's employes or the country? People are just trying to get a good product that will last. ear

[Graybeard]

Both Toyotas and Hondas are made in the US well at least assembled here with parts from all over the globe same as US brand name vehicles.

There is a Honda plant in Lincoln, AL not so far from here. Lots of companies have sprung up in the area to provide parts for them.. Same for Mercedes over in Tuscaloosa. I'm sure that's the case at all the various assembly plants in the US for foreign name brand vehicles.

They are providing jobs for Americans same as US brand are.

[Doublebass73]

Not only do they employ a lot of Americans, companies like Honda and Toyota also have a lot of plants in right-to-works states in the US which keeps them more competitive than Government Motors and Chrysler which were ruined by unions.

How much bailout money did Honda and Toyota take from us taxpayers?

[hillbill]

years ago i would not be caught dead in a jap vehicle. last time i was in the market for a good reliable vehicle that got good mpg and was just basically a good vehicle, i looked at every thing in my price range.which was 2 to 10,000 buks.mind yu this was 6 or 8 years ago.i looked at everything, mpg, reliability, resale,ease of working on, cost of parts. i ended up with a 98 nissan sentra.ive never regretted it so far.and trust me id rather have a usa made car. but i cant do better than what ive done.

[jcn59]

Yeah, we have a "world economy" now.
 
How's that working out for you?   Average out our standard of living with India.  Does that raise or lower our standard of living in the USA?
 
We had a good, healthy auto industry here once. Your parents may have worked in an auto plant.  Perhaps that's how they got the money to raise you and the rest of your family. 
 
Here is where it went wrong.  The EPA got involved, and gave us the 1973 automobile.  It was 400+ cubic inches, had every kind of gas mileage-killing device known to man on it.  Had only about 175 HP and sucked gas at an unprecedented rate.  Then our government increased our foreign oil imports & justified the increase in the price of gas.   Surprise, surprise we now had a market for itty-bitty foreign cars. 
 
Detroit didn't create the foreign car market, congress did.

[Graybeard]

My dad worked in a pipe shop all his life. Anniston was the cast iron soil pipe capital of the world until plastic pipe replaced the cast iron pipe. Mom worked in a five and dime store. So no the auto industry didn't help raise me.

My Toyota is as big as any Detroit iron out there and has pretty much the same HP as the big V8s in Detroit trucks. It was made in the USA last year and I bought it last December.

I might be wrong but I think "foreign" manufacturers of vehicles employ more Americans today than American auto makers do. No all the parts aren't made here but plenty of them are and that's really no different than Detroit made vehicles. Nothing much is made in the USA with American parts these days. Sad but true.

[LunaticFringeInc]

America no longer builds a durable product anymore for the most part.  Why invest money in something thats more or less disposable 10 years down the road?  If they were more affordable to purchase initially,  I would own a pre-1974 vehicle instead of a pre 1990.  There used to be a time when you bought a vehicle if you took care of it it could still be in operation 40 years later as a daily driver.  If you can, tell me one model of car made by the Big Three that will still be operational 30 years later with 300k plus on the odometer unless its a less than 20k garage queen thats only driven for car shows.
 
Yeah you can make the argument that todays cars are more fuel effcient and you would be right.  But what ever you saved on gas you give up every year just having routine general maintenance done on the vehicle thats too complicated for most folks to do an oil change on!
 
If American Manufactures want my business, then they need to start making a worth while product instead of one thats comparable to chinese junk being imported now.  How about be more like the Japanese and build a good reliable and durable product worthy of some respect.

[Matt]

The ABC News "Made in America" team has been working this week with the Stewart family of Hillsdale, N.J., as it looks for a new car. We asked which car would create more jobs, an American car made in the United States, or a foreign car that is also made here.

 There are 698,700 people employed in the U.S. motor vehicle manufacturing industry, and each auto industry job supports nine others in the United States. It is an industry that is on the rise, employing an estimated 40,000 more people than this time last year.

Find out what percentage of your car was Made in America.

 We followed the Stewarts as they went to check out the Toyota Camry and the Ford Escape, two of the most popular cars in the country. The Camry is the top-selling family sedan in the country, while the Escape is the most popular compact SUV in America.
 

 "It was a very smooth ride, very nice, very comfortable inside," Brian Stewart said of the Camry.

 Than ABC News traveled to the Ford plant in Kansas City, Mo., and the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Ky., to investigate both cars and find out which one creates the most U.S. jobs. To do that, we had to find the answers to these three questions:

 Is the car assembled here?

 Toyota: Yes, it takes more than 6,000 American workers to build the Camrys we buy. Ford: Yes, it takes 2,250 workers to build the Escape.

 How much of the car contains U.S. parts?

 Toyota Camry: 80 percent. Ford Escape: 65 percent.

 How many cars were sold in a given year?

 Toyota Camry: The most pospular seller, 328,000 were sold last year. Ford Escape: Just under 200,000 were sold in 2010.

 Using that formula, the answer might not be what you think.

 The U.S. brand that creates the most American jobs? The Ford Escape, which creates 13 assembly line jobs for every 100 cars sold, based on 2010 sales figures and company supplied information on how many workers actually man the assembly lines.

 That is good, but doesn't top the Kentucky-built Toyota, which creates almost 20 U.S.-based manufacturing jobs for every 100 cars sold.

 In the end, the Stewarts chose a good ol' American Ford Explorer, with 85 percent of its parts made in America. Although it will not create as many jobs as either the Camry or the Escape because the scale of production is smaller, the Stewarts can still be proud to be supporting jobs in this country with their purchase."

Check back in with "World News" on ABC as we continue our Made in America series in the coming weeks.

source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/made-america-us-made-car-creates-jobs/story?id=13813091#.Tv19EW9avvY

[blind ear]

Any job that you sign on to that isn't a UNION job has a no falt or reason clause for fireing you. They can fire you at any time without a reason. You can walk out at any time without a reason.
 
Where does the loyalty begin?
 
Does it take a UNION to creat loyalty? Does it take congress and coorporations to legislate it out? What achieves loyalty?
 
ear

[SHOOTALL]

My Ford , Chevy and Dodge trucks all have parts made in other countries. One ford came from Mexico . And some of the Chevys came from Canada. We have 2 yotas and they came from TN i think . So far for commerical plumbing the yotas don't carry the weight or bulk of the US made trucks . They are not designed to yet. They are ok for what they were designed to do though.

[Doublebass73]

Here is where it went wrong.  The EPA got involved, and gave us the 1973 automobile.  It was 400+ cubic inches, had every kind of gas mileage-killing device known to man on it.  Had only about 175 HP and sucked gas at an unprecedented rate.  Then our government increased our foreign oil imports & justified the increase in the price of gas.   Surprise, surprise we now had a market for itty-bitty foreign cars. 
 
Detroit didn't create the foreign car market, congress did.

Good point. They also added the 5 mph bumpers in 1973 mandated by the government which made the vehicles even heavier and suck more gas.

About 10 years ago my father bought and restored a 66 Olds F85 with a 330 2bbl engine. It had no EPA mandated devices at all. It had 250 gross HP and averaged 18 MPG with crappy modern day gasoline. A similar sized vehicle with similar sized engine made after 1974 with all the EPA mandated BS only got between 12-14 mpg. The EPA in their ultimate wisdom caused us to go backwards.

[SHOOTALL]

The American auto makers gave us cars from off shore. They shipped junk in many cases to consumers from back in the 60's. The owners and unions were hand in hand on this one.
Vega , Pinto , Corvair , etc all mostly junk and dangerous IMHO THEN enter Honda Civic and the writing was on the wall.

[jcn59]

If it wasn't for congress and their various free trade agreements our American cars would be 100% American, and the foreigns couldn't compete in the USA.  Back in the 50s & 60s when we had cheap gas and the big 3 auto manufacturers ruled, we could afford to buy a new car every 2 years, because we WANTED to.  I guy I knew had a six cylinder "Kenosha Cadillac" with a three speed overdrive manual transmission that would get up to 24 miles per gallon and the speedometer would "tic" 110 on the top end.  That was in 1957, 54 years ago. 
 
If those jap cars provide so many jobs, why can't your college grad kids find work?  Some of your children will be the first generation in the history of the USA who have a lesser standard of living than their parents. Ask THEM how this "world economy" is working out.
 
If you want a vehicle that can go 300,000 - 500,000 miles get a Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0 liter six.
 
I think it started before the Honda Civic.  It was the Honda "Dream" motorcycle...or maybe the transistor....

[lakota]

 
If you want a vehicle that can go 300,000 - 500,000 miles get a Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0 liter six.
 

Too bad they ditched that good AMC motor in favor of Chrysler garbage that wont last half as long not to mention dropping what could very well be the most popular SUV ever so they could push soccer mom crap like the Liberty and patriot and Compass.  Chrysler has ruined the Jeep brand

[SHOOTALL]

If it wasn't for congress and their various free trade agreements our American cars would be 100% American, and the foreigns couldn't compete in the USA.  Back in the 50s & 60s when we had cheap gas and the big 3 auto manufacturers ruled, we could afford to buy a new car every 2 years, because we WANTED to.  I guy I knew had a six cylinder "Kenosha Cadillac" with a three speed overdrive manual transmission that would get up to 24 miles per gallon and the speedometer would "tic" 110 on the top end.  That was in 1957, 54 years ago. 
 
If those jap cars provide so many jobs, why can't your college grad kids find work?  Some of your children will be the first generation in the history of the USA who have a lesser standard of living than their parents. Ask THEM how this "world economy" is working out.
 
If you want a vehicle that can go 300,000 - 500,000 miles get a Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0 liter six.
 
I think it started before the Honda Civic.  It was the Honda "Dream" motorcycle...or maybe the transistor....

I'm 56 and it seems my standard of living is lower .......... BTW back in the 50's and 60's those all American cars required tune ups every 12000 miles and oil changes 3000 to 2500 miles mosty traded because they were worn out.

[Doublebass73]

If you want a vehicle that can go 300,000 - 500,000 miles get a Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0 liter six.

My '99 Cherokee has 241K and counting. I love that thing. 5 speed manual, I average 25 mpg in the good weather. I was so disappointed when they discontinued the 4.0 in '06.

[jcn59]

Yes, Shootall, they required tune-ups...that you could do yourself for ten bucks.  The jap cars needed tuneups then too, plus a valve adjustment.  Today's oil is better, too, and I change it every 3000 miles. 

I remember those days, when it was below zero out, and you had to do a ritualistic little dance on the gas pedal before it would start.  You had to hold your mouth a certain way, too.

[yellowtail3]

We had a good, healthy auto industry here once. Your parents may have worked in an auto plant.

...and then Japan & Germany recovered from WW2, and started importing the cars Americans WANTED to buy, post Yom Kippur war.


Detroits problems were theirs, not something imposed on them. They were used to owning the ballpark; someone came along who could play better ball, and they're still trying to get back in the game.


FYI - I've got two Fords.

[jcn59]

The great influx of imports came AFTER the EPA drove the stake through the heart of theAmerican auto industry in 1973.  Before that our cars were as good as anyone else's.  Being a good American starts with Patriotism and loyalty to the USA.  It's more than just "getting the best deal".
 
And so, the good UAW job was replaced by a Subway job...  See how that makes you feel when you are driving down the road at 11:00 p.m. to pick up your 24 year old kid who just finished his shift at Subway and needs you to drive him home because he can't afford his own car....OR apartment.
 
Seriously though, I'm surprised none of you jumped on what the japs did to the motorcycle industry.  The jap bikes clobbered our motorcycle industry to the point that we never developed our own ringi-dingers.
 
I'm guessing I struck a nerve when I chastised government workers for driving imported cars because many of you do too.   

[blind ear]

Driving the imports seems to indicate good sence and reason. ear

[Doublebass73]

Being a good American starts with Patriotism and loyalty to the USA.  It's more than just "getting the best deal".

I have a Jeep Cherokee and a Ford Police Interceptor.

Was I being loyal to the USA by buying that Ford even though it's an import made in Ontario Canada?

Was my father being disloyal to the USA by buying his Honda which was made in Ohio?

[yellowtail3]

The great influx of imports came AFTER the EPA drove the stake through the heart of theAmerican auto industry in 1973.  Before that our cars were as good as anyone else's

We had a mature auto industry that sat on its... laurels. Japan came along and built the cars people wanted. Doesn't have anything to do w/EPA. Japanese & German cars had to meet the same emissions standards.

Seriously though, I'm surprised none of you jumped on what the japs did to the motorcycle industry.  The jap bikes clobbered our motorcycle industry to the point that we never developed our own ringi-dingers.

I'll field this one. The Japanese simply made the best motorcycles in the world. They made the bikes that the huge bulge of baby boomer guys wanted. Late sixties/early seventies, these guys want fun bikes that are reliable and performed well. Here you go: it's 1975 or 1976 and you want a 'superbike' (old term) and it's between a Kawasaki Z-1, and a Harley Sportster... and you actually RIDE both without being prejudiced toward one brand or the other? -  the Z-1 so vastly outclassed the Harley, in every performance measure, it was no contest. The Zee was leading edge, sophisticated for its day, reliable; the Harley was none of those things, even if it was the favored ride of the Banditos & Hells Angels. I started riding in the mid-70s... like my friends started out on enduros, we graduated to CB350s and KZ400s and RDs, and we loved the burning-rubber-and-wheelies Kawasaki triples and lusted after the new KZs and GSs. Nothing new or interesting was coming out of Milwaukee. The '78 XLCR Cage Racer was pretty, but its performance was pathetic compared to the offerings from Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, and Yamaha. If you wanted to take a roadtrip on a Harley, you needed a tech rep to come along with you, because it was gonna break. It only got worse into the late 70s/early 80s when all the Jap manufacturers were making refined 4cyl bikes that got better every year. Harley survived  by getting the gov to put a HUGE tariff on anything over 700cc from Japan (never mind that Harley didn't build anything smaller than 1000cc at that time) and improving their quality, evo motor, and.. marketing the 'you're in the club' more than the technical capabilities of their bikes, which  by most any measure (except MPG, they weren't bad there) was very poor compared to their competition.

[blind ear]

Harleys were built on the same technology as a WWI Steerman rotary engine. shake shake shake! ear

[jcn59]

In 1965, two years out of high school, I was making a tad over $6000. a year.  A new Mustang could be had for $2500..   Now the new Mustang will cost 10 or 12 times as much.  How many of your twenty year old kids are making ten times what I was 46 years ago?  With a high school education?  I should mention that I was working at a foundry, producing parts for that Mustang.  I was driving a new GTO to that job. You probably thought I was working at a fast food shop, Huh?

I appreciate the different thoughts you all have about this topic.  My point, perhaps poorly expressed, is that our marginal economic climate will continue to deteriorate until we start making competitive USA "hard" products again, like vehicles and machinery.   We need substantial tarrifs on some goods to get it started.  There is no free lunch.

[yellowtail3]

In 1965, two years out of high school, I was making a tad over $6000. a year.  A new Mustang could be had for $2500..   Now the new Mustang will cost 10 or 12 times as much. 

They are steep. Ford's Mustang is a bright spot in Detroit; the Coyote-powered 5.0 is stunning. I've owned three V8 Mustangs, starting with a 66 289 4-speed... I think the new on is an absolute home run. Now if Ford can do as well with mass-market cars like the Focus and Fiesta...

[rdmallory]

Mercedes over in Tuscaloosa

Sure hope they aren't hard to put together....


Doug

[Sourdough]

The last Ford 1/2 Ton I owned was built in Canada.  Everything on it was metric.  I wanted to rebuild the front axle and drive system.  Had to go buy had to go buy heavy metric tools to do the job.

Back in Tennessee, most of my relatives drive Nisson's they are produced locally.  They say they are supporting the local auto workers.  Nisson supports the community, so they support Nisson.

I worked for a union once.  Was forced to join the union to work for this company.  Paid union dues, yet got nothing for it.  A competative company moved into the area, and was not union.  Everyone moved to the non union shop.  The unionized shop folded due to lack of employees.