H110 in 460 S&W + 445 Supermag

[jays375]

Just wondering if anybody is using H110 in either a 460 S&W XVR or 445 in a Thompson Contender.Just starting working on either gun.Using 250 Hornady XTP in the Smith,300 Hornady XTP in the Thompson.The Thomspon liked H4227 but is now discontinued and the IMR 4227 is not the same.

[buck460XVR]

The 250 XTP is not an appropriate bullet for use in your .460 unless it is being used in powderpuff  loads. It was designed for .45LC velocities and pressures and use of it at full blown .460 pressures and velocities may lead to premature forcing cone erosion and excessive top strap flame cutting. The thin jackets also do not lend themselves to good terminal performance on deer sized game when shot @ .460 velocities.  H110/W296 are not powders that work with powderpuff loads and thus would not be the best choice if used with this bullet for that purpose. This holds true for any .45 caliber bullet not specifically designed for 454 Casull and larger. With jacketed bullets I stick with 240gr  and 300gr XTP-MAGS and Speer's 300gr Deep Curls. All are very accurate and are intended for the higher velocities and pressures developed by the .460. Note that Hornady also makes a 300gr XTP not intended for these pressures.

I have used H110/W296 with good success in my PC .460 XVR. It gives me great accuracy and maximum velocities. I also use IMR4227 in it and have found if one hunts in extreme temperature extremes as I do here in Wisconsin, it is a little less temperature sensitive than H110/W296 and thus a little more consistent when hunting in 60 degrees one day and -10 three weeks later. It is just as accurate as H110/W296 but with just a tad less velocity. The new IMR4227 is just the old H4227 but renamed. It was the old IMR4227 that was discontinued.

[jays375]

If this bullet wasn't appropriate for a 460 wouldn't Hornaday,say so.Don't they even sell lighter loaded ammunition?How come Hornaday states that the 250XTP bullet has a heavy jacket.Will withstand the pressures and velocities of todays high performance handguns.I have checked into the IMR4227 and H4227 they weren't the same.They still aren't the same either,difference in burn rate.

[buck460XVR]

If this bullet wasn't appropriate for a 460 wouldn't Hornaday,say so.Don't they even sell lighter loaded ammunition?How come Hornaday states that the 250XTP bullet has a heavy jacket.Will withstand the pressures and velocities of todays high performance handguns.I have checked into the IMR4227 and H4227 they weren't the same.They still aren't the same either,difference in burn rate.

Hornady does say so.....in their reloading manual. Speer also warns about the usage of bullets not intended for the pressures and velocities developed by the .460. Here's a quote direct from the Hornady manual found on the cover page for load recipes for the .460.......

For the Handloader, Hornady offers two different bullets that are suitable for loading in the .460 Smith & Wesson. First is the 240 grain XTP-MAG..............The 300 grain XTP-MAG is the perfect choice when hunting the largest game.......

You asked for info, and what I have given you is correct. The 250 gr XTP may have a heavy jacket and may withstand the pressures and velocities of today's high performance handguns....in .45LC, but they are not meant for pressures much more than 37,000psi, nor is it intended for velocities past 1600fps.  Here is a chart(from Hornady)showing the intended velocities.....


The internet is a wealth of information. So are the reloading manuals published by bullet manufacturers. One can choose to believe or ignore. Yes, IMR4227 and H4227 were not the same powder, but info I have been given from Hodgdon is what I have yold you. If you go to their website you see they have both powders listed together by burn rate. They are separated by one number.  This is the same way they list H110 and W296, which everyone knows are the exact same powders. The chart is here.......http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html


Again, you asked if anyone had experience reloading for the .460 and I gave you mine. I have only loaded thousands of rounds for almost 7 years in this caliber. If you doubt my knowledge, go ahead and continue to push those 250s. I wish you the best of luck.

[jays375]

I am by no means doubting you or your information.Hope I haven't come of as being a smart a--.This caliber is all new to me and haven't owned it very long.Is the 240gr XTP Mag dangerous to use in my gun?The info  found on the internet has lead me where I am now.When I bought the gun it was kinda new on the market and wasn't much out there.I haven't shot it very much either,mainly the 300gr XTP.Just mounted a scope on it want to see what it will do.Are you using standard LRP or the magnum?

[buck460XVR]

I am by no means doubting you or your information.Hope I haven't come of as being a smart a--.This caliber is all new to me and haven't owned it very long.Is the 240gr XTP Mag dangerous to use in my gun?The info  found on the internet has lead me where I am now.When I bought the gun it was kinda new on the market and wasn't much out there.I haven't shot it very much either,mainly the 300gr XTP.Just mounted a scope on it want to see what it will do.Are you using standard LRP or the magnum?

From your original post, I assumed you were new to reloading for this caliber......that's why I tried to give you some important information about proper bullets. When the .460 first came out, there wasn't much for published information for handloaders. Many took the .45 caliber bullets they could find and tried to load them to factory velocities. Some worked, some did not. Many of these loads on handload forums for the .460 fall into this category. This includes the useage of bullets not appropriate for the pressures and velocities created by the gun. Unfortunately,  many of these improper and untested load recipes are still out there on the internet. I suggest you get a Hornady manual. Their bullets are the least expensive and the most readily available there are that are appropriate for the .460. Their loads are also quite good. Hodgdon also has online load data for the .460 using H110/W296 and Hornady XTP-MAGS, but I need to stay on the lower end of their recipes because of tight throats. I suggest you stay away from using Lil' Gun in your revolver.

For primers I use what the published load recipe calls for.......and no, the 240gr XTP is not dangerous for your gun as it is designed for it's pressures and velocities....as long as you stay within published loads.

[jays375]

I thank you for your information.You are totally right with what you have said.If I could get a little more info.How low on the Hornady loads.I never use max loads,usually one step below.How will the 220gr HornadyXTP Mag bullets perform on dear?I know the 240 XTP in a Supermag blow right up,have to use 300gr XTP.

[woods]

     I have hunted with a 12" CONTENDER barreled 445 super mag since 1995.  Only bullet I ever found that could handle the velocity and impact on deer size game and larger was the 300 gr flat point. I've loaded the win 296 powder since the begining, one of just a few powders listed in the tc reload manual. I'm useing large rifle, Fed 210 primers also recomended with 29 gr of  win 296 this is a 1.5 gr below max. This load is direct from there manual, I'LL REPEAT THIS IS A CONTENDER LOAD MANUAL.  I can't say I have ever fed a steady diet of this through my contender it takes a pounding shooting these loads lots of recoil and blast but it has taken 6 doe's and 2 bucks over the years. I shoot 44 mags for practice to keep the wear and tear down on my frame and barrel, you must make sure you clean the chamber area to remove all fouling from 44's  before fireing the 445 shells again.
      Years ago there where a few super mags calibers put out most people hated them because they misunderstood them trying to shoot  light bullets  that couldn't handle the velocity.  The 357 Max was one that paid the price, it was never ment to shoot under 180 gr bullets. The 414 Super mag was in the same boat, factory bullets were never produced to reach this calibers potential 220 was as heavy as they went, This round shines at 240 gr lead bullets and heavier, which makes it a lead bullet shooter proposition only.  I feel alot of people missed out on some really made for hunting handgun calibers that were ahead of there time and died early because of  lack of knowledge about heavy bullets use.
     There may be some new bullets out there that work in my 445 that I haven't tested but I found what works for me and it has proven results. A few years back manufacturers finally admited win 296 powder and H-110 powder were the same so I tried loading it with the same results, imformation from a factory rep for contender who gave me the heads up for the same load in H-110. I've thought about buying one of the new manuals for contender but never have, I don't own and encore or g-2 so didn't see any sense in it.
     Woods
 
 

[Grumulkin]

Hornady does not say you shouldn't use the 240 gr. XTP-MAG in a 460 S&W Magnum only that the 300 gr. XTP-MAG mag is best for dangerous game.  I also have a quite hard time believing that the 240 gr. XTP-MAG would be any more prone to flame cutting and forcing cone damage than what you would get with any other high velocity load and 460 S&W Magnum loads are loaded with as light as 200 gr. bullets.


For what it's worth, I've found A 1680 to work quite well with Barnes 325 gr. Barnes Buster bullets in my 460V.

[buck460XVR]

Hornady does not say you shouldn't use the 240 gr. XTP-MAG in a 460 S&W Magnum only that the 300 gr. XTP-MAG mag is best for dangerous game.  I also have a quite hard time believing that the 240 gr. XTP-MAG would be any more prone to flame cutting and forcing cone damage than what you would get with any other high velocity load and 460 S&W Magnum loads are loaded with as light as 200 gr. bullets.

Grumulkin ....you need to read the previous posts again.......slowly.  No where did anyone say that the .45 240gr XTP MAG was not appropriate for the .460. In fact, I said just the opposite and backed it up with quotes from the Hornady manual. My statement  about an inappropriate bullet was about the .45 250gr XTP intended for .45LC velocities. You may have a "quite hard time believing it"  'cause no one said it.


Speer advises against using any of it's .45 caliber bullets for full house .460 other that it's 300gr Deep Curls. The reasoning they give in their manual is because of possible damage to the forcing cone and topstrap because the thin jackets on their(and other) bullets intended for .45LC velocities. This is their advice, so I follow it. I tend to believe bullet manufacturers when they give warnings within published manuals. You certainly are free to do as you please.

[bajabill]

I use H110 in my 445sm, in an HR single shot rifle.  I am more than happy with the results at the range, never hunted with it.
 
I used data on the internet from John Taffin, and worked up carefully.

[buck460XVR]

jays375....to answer your question about hunting with my .460. Yes I do and have found the 300gr XTP-MAGs or 300gr Deep Curls over IMR4227 to be my preferred load for deer. H110/W296 is my second choice in powders, but as I said before I hunt in some wide temperature variations and IMR4227 tends to be the most consistent. You will find you don't need to load your .460 to max for it to be effective. My most accurate loads are generally somewhere in the middle of load recipes. As I said before the Hodgdon web site recipes are a bit on the high side for my particular X-Frame. I suggest anytime you get sticky extraction to back down. You will also find that it sometimes doesn't take much of a change in components or increase in powder to go from easy extraction to having to pound the empties out with a dowel. Start at minimum or just above and increase till cases start gettin' sticky then back down to the most accurate load and easy extraction.

[jays375]

Not that  I am cheap but the 240 XTP comes in 100 count boxes.The 300XTP is only 50 count boxes.So if the 240 would perform well on deer that would be great.Plus I wouldn't have to switch back and forth to hunt and shoot with.