357 maxi of 35 remington...

[rdlange]

Looking for 14" contender barrel for scoped use.

I have rifles for both calibers.  I can reload either and ream 357mag to maxi.   

357mag 14" barrels seem nonexistent, and have read factory maxi barrels have bad chambers. 

35 rem seems to have ftf problems with tiny shoulder and probably recoils harder, but barrels are available.

Since I gotta buy one anyway - asking for input.  Pros and cons for either please. 

[giddens1972]

I've got a 10" 357 mag rechamber to 357 max and it shoots like a dream!  Recoil isn't bad at all, the muzzle flips... but a full power 180 grain load is nothing compared to a 44 mag contender.  You could definitely get more out of a 35 remington, but I don't know about the recoil.  I guess it depends on how you handle recoil and what you're willing to deal with.  I have a 358jdj and the recoil from that is substantial, and I don't think the 35 remington performance is too far behind the 358 jdj.  Just my 17 cents worth.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I have a 12" 35 Rem. I have never had a failure to fire, either with my handloads, or with some factory Rem ammo someone gave me. My barrel seems to prefer the 200 gr Hornady round nose bullet more than the Rem 200 or any of the 180's I've tried. I've never had to diddle around with "false shoulders" or any other such nonsense with mine.

Recoil is a subjective thing. I don't think the recoil is bad on mine. It does have a muzzle tamer on it, but I don't think it's as bad as a full house 44 mag. I believe my handloaded 200 gr Hornady's are giving me just under 2000 fps, at around 1980-1990 fps. I did break a Bushnell trophy 2-6x variable scope on mine. The adjustments went south and it wouldn't hold zero anymore.

I've never owned a Max, but I've shot one some. My buddy has one in a 10" ( I think it's a 10"?). It's fun to shoot from the bench. It's a little snappy with full house loads, but I wouldn't call it bad. It does have a nice fireball out the front with a max charge of powder and a 110 gr XTP.

I would say if you want to shoot pistol bullets, get the Max, but if you want to shoot rifle bullets, get the Rem.

[Dezynco]

I can't say much about the 35 Remington other than it is a rifle cartridge that you intend to use in a pistol length barrel.  Not knocking it, just another thing to consider.  I of course have several Contender pistol barrels that are chambered in rifle cartridges that perform just fine, but the slower velocities can be an issue occaisionally.  The bottle neck case is a little bit harder to load, not a big deal.  Of course, factory ammo is readily available.  I can't say anything about the accuracy since I've never had one, but I'm sure it's great.

The 357 Max, however, is originally a handgun cartridge, and there are plenty of projectiles that will work at handgun velocities.  Also the bullets for the Max are inexpensive and there are a TON of different ones to pick from.  The 357 Max is a very good choice in handgun length barrels, and of course is very easy to handload with a good set of carbide dies (no case lube need for resizing).  The 357 Max is capable of 150 - 200 yard shots at deer sized game, which is about as far as most of us feel comfortable shooting. 

You're right about the chambers in factory TC barrels - it's not that they're bad, it's just that they're not ideal.  TC cut the chambers with that goofy conical area just ahead of the chamber that makes the pressure levels match those specified by SAAMI.  Of course that is unnecesarry in a closed breach firearm like the Contender.  The way that TC cuts the chambers causes a slight loss in potential velocity and  accuracy.  Not terrible, just not as good as it could be.  I have a 14" 357 Max that shoots 3" or so groups at 100 yards, which is not awful, but that's about the best it will do.  Still perfectly capable of taking deer sized game, and as I said, very easy to handload for.   You can just about forget about buying factory ammo for the Max!

By having a 357 Magnum rechambered to 357 Max, you eliminate most of that funky chamber.  You need to note that TC did this, as far as I know, in all their "handgun caliber" chambers.  This includes the 44 Magnum, 45 Colt, 357 Mag, and 357 Max.  You'll also see occaisionally folks having their 44 Mag's punched out to 445 Supermag for the same reason.  If you have a barrel reamed out to 357 Max, or have a custom barrel built, the velocity and accuracy of the Max is outstanding and makes a superior cartridge for the Contender.

[cwlongshot]

I have had a couple Maxi's in Contenders. both shot very well with zero problems or complaints. The 10" did have "snappy" recoil.  Its been years, but I was satisfied with the accuracy I got from them.
In a 35 Rem I have been limited to the Marlins. Never had one in a handgun.
 
The Maxi is a higher pressure caliber than the Rem, BUT the Rem has more powder cap. SO its more efficient and looses less velocity from a shorter barrel. The 35 Rem and maxi in same rifle barrels are all but equal. BUT crop the barrel to say 12" and the Remington holds the advantage as higher pressure calibers waste power and require barrel length to get a more complete burn.
 
The Maxi is rimmed and generally has zero problems with ignition. Some people find small rifle primers are better suited (I agree) Pistol primers (even mag pistol) tend to flatten out and "flow" more than there rifle counter parts.
The Remington is a rimless case and head spaces off the shoulder. But its case diameter is slim for a 35 cal bullet so its a small shoulder. Couple this with a Remington case (Known to be soft when new) and loading it into a firearm with out a captured head extractor. (Like a Bolt gun or a Marlin lever action) My point is, the back of the case is not held against the breech. If head space is not perfect, problems can become apparent. Generally speaking many FTF problems go away with work hardened brass. You can do a couple things.
First is to fire form to your chamber and neck size. But neck sizing some single shots can also bring on other problems as there frames move differently than other actions as they can "spring" a bit. What I mean is the recoil is against the breech, BUT the hinge stops the barrel from coming off the front. This leaves about 2.5" of steel between them to compress, move, shift or "spring". In a single shot like a Winchester Hi or LO wall there is no such problems as the breech slides up and down in the receiver, about 1/2" from where the barrel threads into the receiver. Also this not an issue in a bolt gun as its bolt will either engage the barrel itself or engage the front of the receiver where the barrel threads. Leaving nearly nothing between these points. Granted these are minute "moves" but they will and do add up and become an issue if the pressures the cartridge is operating at is enough to "spring " the action. ( 35-30K + is enough in a Handi and a Contender)
Second is to re chamber to an "improved" case IE a Ackley chamber. These remove as much body taper to increase case volume and diameter at the shoulder. making for a bigger shoulder. This increased surface area at the shoulder, is most welcome. (Not feasible in some circumstances.)
 
I like all 35 Cal's, of these two I like the 35 Maxi best. But in a hand gun the maxi is not a 200 yard gun. But neither is the 35 Remington. Even in a Marlin Lever it was not considered a 200 yard gun. Back when the contenders really blossomed with all the fancy JDJ calibers did people think they had something more than they had was beyond me... I mean the big boy 375 was only a bit better then my marlin 375 Win that was a deer/Bear gun for ranges under 200 yards. But the nearly identical ballistics from a 14" contender was OK for the earths largest toughest critters... Why?? I digress...
 
Anyhow, I do not see your intended useage, but IMHO, either will do med sized big game to 100-125 yards from a hand gun length barrel and add another 50 yards if you go with a 22" +- barrel and a good scope. The 35 Rem in a short barrel will have more vel and energy. If targets are the "target" 200 is well with in the capabilities of either of these.
 
CW

[Flemc1]

WOW .... CW

yer a hard one to follow ,
 I have both the Maxi and the 35 Remington in 14" Tender's and love them both , NEVER a misfire from either , Both will shoot MOA @ 100 yds off a solid rest if I do my part .

Chris

[cwlongshot]

LOL...   
 
Thats my problem, put my feet to the fire and I LIKE THEM ALL!!  ; 
 
BUT as I said, I really like all 35 calibers, from the little 357 magnum to the 358 Norma magnum.
 
CW

[dstegjas]

My first Contender was a 14" 35 Remington. Although I enjoyed shooting the 35 Rem., it did have a substantial recoil to it. Most of my friends that shot it, didn't like the recoil it had to offer. I eventually traded it off because you can't hunt with it here in Ohio.


I currently have a 14" barrel in 357 Max. and enjoy shooting it a lot. It packs a good punch for deer when needed. It also works well on small game like coyotes and groundhogs. This in my opinion is a good all around caliber to shoot or hunt with.


Both calibers shot very accurately for me. For me, it was a matter of what I could use more here in Ohio to hunt with. As it has been said above, both calibers are 125 yards or less guns. So if you are looking for a long range pistol you might want to look at a different caliber. The lighter recoil in the 357 Max  is always a plus.


Jim

[KYODE]

As it has been said above, both calibers are 125 yards or less guns

either one WILL take deer with authority at 200yrds if you are well practiced and using handloaded ammo.

[dstegjas]

As it has been said above, both calibers are 125 yards or less guns

either one WILL take deer with authority at 200yrds if you are well practiced and using handloaded ammo.

KYODE,
To each there own when it comes to these things. So it looks like we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I have been shooting Contenders for almost 20 years now and have been reloading my own ammo longer then that. When punching paper, I will stretch the yardage out to see what the cartridge can do. When it comes to hunting, I tend to error on the side of taking the animal humanely. I am certainly not saying that I am the best shot out there. I just shoot within the limits I set for myself. If you feel comfortable shooting at those distance, so be it.


Jim

[KYODE]

i've hunted ever since i was 12 er 13(48 now) and handloaded 20+yrs. that doesn't qualify me for anything other than getting old ...lol
there's nothing wrong with limiting yourself if you want, but i've taken a few deer with a 14" 35rem contender around the 200yrd mark. it is very capable with single shot pistol loads. it is quite impressive actually. a couple posters have said it is not....well it is.

[chiefs50]

i've hunted ever since i was 12 er 13(48 now) and handloaded 20+yrs. that doesn't qualify me for anything other than getting old ...lol
there's nothing wrong with limiting yourself if you want, but i've taken a few deer with a 14" 35rem contender around the 200yrd mark. it is very capable with single shot pistol loads. it is quite impressive actually. a couple posters have said it is not....well it is.

Well, except for four years I was on active duty, I have hunted deer since I was 14 and am 66 now.  As Kyode says, it doesn't qualify me for much - except maybe as a relatively successful pursuer of the wily Whitetail buck.  I'm a better than average shot and shoot a lot of paper but only take a shot when I am certain of a clean, humane kill.  For me, with a scoped Contender pistol in the .35 Rem. class (my usual is a .30-30) 200 yards is beyond my comfort zone.  Is the .35 with handloads capable?  Yes.  Would I take such a shot?  No.  YMMV. 
Mike

[cwlongshot]

  I remember reading a story in Outdoor life where a little indian girl killed a grizzly bear with a single shot 22 rim-fire... Turned out to be a WORLD RECORD that stood for a number of years!!
 
Does anyone hunt  bear with a 22RF??? Just cause someone has done it OR even IF its capable of doing it does not mean its appropriate or acceptable.
 
I have NEVER understood the line of thinking that just because a cartridge is chambered in a fancy single shot pistol it as if magically become more powerful than it was before hand... The 35 Rem is a excellent caliber! Generally speaking, it's not considered a 200 yard caliber as factory loaded in a Marlin rifle. (Partially because of the open sites) How does it become one in a 14" barreled pistol that looses almost 25% of its "power"
 Now a 35 Rem, in a rifle, loaded to modern pressures, with a good scope, it is all of a 250 yard gun. To my way opf thinking, the magic number is 1200-1500 foot pounds. Where it drops below that that is the max HUMANE distance I will use it on game. Then there is the accuracy, with these extended ranges it drops off. Where that drops below say 4" that's my max range.  This is directly associated with the shooters ability. many of our abilities out run the calibers "power".

IMHO,  That is the case with these two. I also realize these are two personal limitations. But feel they are something required and expected of us as responsible accountable sportsmen and women.
 
CW

[KYODE]

I have NEVER understood the line of thinking that just because a cartridge is chambered in a fancy single shot pistol it as if magically become more powerful than it was before hand... The 35 Rem is a excellent caliber! Generally speaking, it's not considered a 200 yard caliber as factory loaded in a Marlin rifle. (Partially because of the open sites) How does it become one in a 14" barreled pistol that looses almost 25% of its "power"

this is probably where some misunderstanding takes place. the single shot pistol is significantly more powerful than factory lever action ammo with handloads. the 14" handguns can push a 180gr spitzer(hornady single shot pistol bullet/ssp) up towards 2200fps. most lever action data i've seen is loaded to lower pressures for the type of firearm.
my 14" contender load is with H322, and the 180gr hornady spb between 2150-2180fps. there is not a 25% loss, but a significant gain by loading for a different type of firearm. sierra, i know lists 14" loads to 2200fps.
again, i'm not knocking personal limits, but the cartridge is more than capable. it hits with great authority. took my largest buck with it, a 13 point that would rough score mid 130's, plus other decent bucks....not smallish deer.

[Slowpoke Slim]

cw,

I agree with kyode, you are just uninformed on what you can load the 35 Rem to in a 12" Contender. My 200 gr load at 1980-1990 fps is spot on the same velocity you can get from a levergun.

Personal limits are fine. I have my own set of limits too. I probably wouldn't take a 200 yard shot at a deer with mine. But, make no mistake, the cartridge, in a 12" Contender, is quite capable of doing the job.

The 30-30 is another cartridge that in a 14" Contender, can be handloaded to the same power level as a full size levergun. If you spend some time perusing the single shot pistol sections of some reloading manuals, you will get your eyes opened for you. Look at the Sierra, Lyman, and Accurate Arms manuals. They list separate sections for Contender loadings. And in the case of the 30-30, I load spitzer bullets, which will have less drop at the same ranges as a flat nose or round nose, so it makes them even better at getting the job done than grandpa's old "thuty-thuty".

[cwlongshot]

Guys,
I am well aware of the "potential" a given caliber can be loaded too. What we are talking and I repeatedly said was FACTORY loadings! I eluded to the hotter loadings and how it would extend the range. I too have been reloading for over 30 years.

Now if you had said "with my loads" my contender is a 200 yard gun. Everyone would have known straight away your not comparing apples to apples.

Tim and I have gone round and round on this topic. Hand loads to higher pressures are a different animal entirely! When someone speaks ballistics and dosen't clarify the statement " my loads or my handloads" they are speaking of SAMMI spec loadings.

Under your cryteria, the on paper ballistics would prove you indeed have a 200+ yard deer caliber. But I stand by my comment that a factory loaded 35 rem form a 12-14" barrel is NOT.

CW

[KYODE]

either one WILL take deer with authority at 200yrds if you are well practiced and using handloaded ammo.

in my very first post i clarified that.    i do not use factory loads, and you've handloaded for 30 years...why would you?
it doesn't matter what i use, and i could care less what you use. i just hate to see others shy away from a great cartridge that was incorrectly represented in an internet post from someone that admitted they had never even had one.

In a 35 Rem I have been limited to the Marlins. Never had one in a handgun.

[cwlongshot]

Jim,
Having gone back and reread these posts, Please accept my apologies. Your first post here was short and I obviously miss read or overlooked it. 

As I said in my last post....

Under your cryteria, the on paper ballistics would prove you indeed have a 200+ yard deer caliber. But I stand by my comment that a factory loaded 35 rem from a 12-14" barrel is NOT.

Simular to what Matt Quigley said, "I said I did not own one I never said didn't shoot one." I have intact shot the contender line quite exclusively. Having owned first the 357 Herrett then the Maxi I saw little need for the Remington. ( I also own or have owned a doz or so other calibers) I shot both in sillouette compatition along with my Blk hawk 45.

I think your getting a bit heated, please meep in mind, these are intelligent exchanges of like minded people. No offense meant or taken.

CW

[KYODE]

who's jim? ....lol
no apology necessary.
also did not mean to sound heated   i tried to put in smileys to help on that.
357max n 357 herrett....close enough fer sure. i have a custom 14" 357max that i have not shot enough yet. had a previous one in a factory 14". great one, n not far behind the 35rem.
quigley....lol. lotta people been kilt with that line.   you got me!.....ahhhhhh
 
hey....idea for the original posters question. a custom 357maximum barrel sure would be a nice one.   should be able to push 180's really good and get great accuracy. the factory max i had shot acceptable for short range deer hunting though.
factory 35rem barrels can be hit or miss on misfires from what i always read from others. you could take your chances. if it does misfire factory ammo, try handloading your own. one can also do a rimmed conversion to use 303 british brass. a 35rem trim die is needed. run 303 case into it, cut off excess brass, chamfer well, load and fireform.

[7-30 Waters]

I have a 12" 357 Maximum and a 15" 357 Herrett.  Both serve their purpose.  I shoot the 357 Maximum with a 30 mm Ultra dot out to 100 yards with great confidence.  With that being said, even though the 357 Herrett is capable of taking game out to 200 yards I generally don't a shot over 100 yards.  Most of my hunting is from tree stands and shots are close.


If I had to choose one all around cartridge it would be the 357 Maximum.  Quick and easy to reload, plenty of stopping power, & makes one heck of noise out of the 12" barrel.

[rdlange]

Thanks for all your comments.  I have a much better understanding of the two to make my decision.

[Dezynco]

Sorry that I stirred up such a hornet's nest....maybe I should have said that "with lots of practice, either cartridge is capable of 200 yards, with handloaded ammo, according to special load data for the Contender only".  I forget that most folks who are just getting into Contenders don't know what the pistols are capable of.
I certainly don't wish for 200 yard shots, but I'm comfortable out that far with a good, steady rest at a standing animal.  BUT, that's my limit in a hunting situation, and that's with MY handloads with which I done extensive practice at that range.  I've knocked over soda cans at much further than that, but I wouldn't take a shot at a critter past 200, and would prefer to keep my shots at deer inside 100 yards.
Anyway, it looks like all is well, and the OP got the information he was looking for. : )

[HHI-7420]

This sounds like fun-let me in. I'm 70, been reloading since 1958 or 59, and have been hunting(one sort or another) since I was able to pick up a 22lr Stevens favorite rifle. So what? Whopeee! I just hope I get to do it for another 20yrs. Enough of that.
Cwlongshot, you're the first person that I've ever heard mention knowing of that story about the Indian girl. As it goes, she was sitting on a brush pile alongside a gas line when this bear came by and she shot it in the side of the head. Lord!,how long ago was that? Guns and ammo/ Fords and Chevys. Shoot what you want to the best of your ability.  Pat