Author Topic: Getting a rifle to accurately shoot cast bullets (Read 2487 times)

kynardsj · « **on:** January 05, 2012, 04:18:07 AM »

I was hoping that when I had MGM build my stainless 20" 45 Colt barrel for my Encore that it would accurately shoot cast bullets. I tried several different weights and styles over different powders and charges but accuracy was terrible. 250 gr XTP's over a max load of Lilgun in this rifle are more accurate than I am at 100 yards. They're great bullets but I want something that will hit hard, stay together and penetrate so I have one load that will be effective for whitetail and hogs. The XTP's are great for a thin skinned whitetail but I wouldn't be confident with them on a big hog as although it body slammed a big doe I shot recently the core of the bullet passed completely thru while the jacket stayed just under the skin on the exit side. If I could get something in the 255- 265 gr range to run around 1600 fps or so accurately and without leading I would be a happy camper. Appreciate all input.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:36:56 AM »

Every barrel is a different animal. Your's may like something bigger, maybe something in the 300gr range. My buddy shoots a 270gr WFN in his Win carbine and his handguns. I'm not sure of the velocities. These bullets have a pretty long shank on them. Maybe it give them more bearing surface...I don't know. He buys these on line from some guy out west.
On the XTPs, I've read of others having issues with pushing them hard. There is a Magnum version of this bullet that supposed to hang together at high speeds.

HWD

kynardsj · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:33:56 AM »

I tried the 240 gr XTP mags the day I shot all the others. They grouped better than the cast but not as good as the 250 gr XTP's. I thought about the 300 gr XTP mags but felt like I would sacrifice distance as I can only push them just so fast with the 45 Colt even in a rifle. I shot them when I had my Puma in 454 Casull and due to the increased speed they were awsome.

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:08:16 AM »

First of all, slug your barrel to determine groove diameter. Then order or cast and size to .001-.002" over groove diameter. If the bullet does not properly seal, you will most definitely get poor accuracy, also gas leakage in this situation is the prime cause of leading. Goatwhiskers

WayneS · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2012, 05:08:51 PM »

Slug the throat of the bbl. and if you don't cast, order your bullets to throat Dia. or .001 larger.
Imange a marble droped into a funnel that's at a 45* angle, the marble will rattle around as it travels to the bottom of the funnel. That's the same thing a bullet does that's smaller than the throat.
Next, see if you can touch the lands with a seated bullet. Drop a cast bullet into the chamber, then insert a sized & belled case, now try to close the action and see if the bullet has gone into the case. If so, this would be your optiomal seating depth, where the bullet is centered in the throat and touching the lands. If not, go with a bullet .001 over throat Dia.
You might go to the LBT's forum and sak if he knows of anyone selling his WFN design in.45 [.453], next would be Ranch Dog's design's.
You might someone to sell you a few heavy 45's over on the "Cast Boolet" forum/

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2012, 11:17:49 PM »

Ive found most 45 colts prefer heavier bullets. Something around 300 grain and in a rilfe that is going to be shooting them fast your going to want them hard and at those speeds your much better off starting with a gas checked bullet. I wouldnt even fool with anything less then 18bhn. 5050 ww/lino or water dropped ww would work well. Also use a good soft lube and size them about as big as you can that will still chamber.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2012, 06:57:21 AM »

1600 fps is probably too fast for most PB cast bullets, especially BB'd ones for best accuracy. If you want accuracy with cast to equal or be better than that of the jacketed 240 gr XTPs then I suggest a GC'd design cast bullet and use the GCs on them.

The Lee, Lyman or RCBS 300 - 320 gr bullets would be my choice for the rifle if the twist of your barrel is compatable with that heavy of bullets. Lyman's 452490 (255 gr GC) would be my 1st choice if you can find one. Or a custom designed one of 270 - 280 gr with a truncated nose with a wide HP on the order of Lyman's .44 "Devestator".

Larry Gibson

greenrivers · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2012, 04:44:27 PM »

Lloyd Smale's advice is dead on target. The bullet he is recommending will penetrate the full length of an animal and leave massive damage. It is the bullet I use and have been very successful with.

srussell · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:22:21 PM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on January 05, 2012, 11:17:49 PM

Ive found most 45 colts prefer heavier bullets. Something around 300 grain and in a rilfe that is going to be shooting them fast your going to want them hard and at those speeds your much better off starting with a gas checked bullet. I wouldn't even fool with anything less then 18bhn. 5050 ww/lino or water dropped ww would work well. Also use a good soft lube and size them about as big as you can that will still chamber.

that's what my handi 45colt likes 300grain bullet and h110 powder. sure puts the hurt on deer and coyotes

Hellgate · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2012, 11:56:09 AM »

I had trouble getting good accuracy until I got every last trace of copper jacket fouling out of the barrel. The copper grabs lead like a magnet and you'll never get tight groups (at least I didn't until I got all the copper out). The other recommendations as to slugging the bore and sizing need to be done.

GH1 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:05:56 PM »

I don't think yo're asking too much of a non GC bullet, I routinely shoot 1600 FPS out of my .357 lever with no leading. I use Dardas cast bullets and they have a hardness of 16-18.
However, to avoid leading fit is of the utmost importance, even more so than hardness, in my opinion. If you don't want to slug your bore try ordering a few bullets sized at .452, and a few more at .453. See what works best.
GH1

kynardsj · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:55:48 PM »

Every lead bullet I tried the first day was a .452. I did all this before I ever put a jacketed .452 bullet in it. I've now had some time after deer season to fine tune my loads and even though I'm still shooting jacketed Hornadys, 250 XTP's and 240 XTP Magnums are shooting in the same place at 100 yards and if I do my job three shots will touch. I'm going to try some 300 gr XTP Magnums over a healthy dose of Lilgun because my trailcam took a picture recently of a boar that could push 350 pounds. I posted the pic in the Hog Hunting section here. With him I want all the knock down I can get. Thanks to all that gave input about the lead bullets.

Rooterpig · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:40:52 PM »

I have shot over a dozen dear and pigs with the .452 250 grain xtp , out of my tc muzzle loader. Always had two holes in game with great , short bloodtrails. Never found a giant exit hole where I thought xtp came apart.

Have you slugged your barrel ?

kynardsj · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:16:00 PM »

Have not slugged it. Exit hole on my doe wasn't large either but this is what was left of the 250 gr XTP.

Rooterpig · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2012, 12:26:28 AM »

Did you find the bullet core. A big chunk of the core Probaly punched all the way through. I hunted for 6 years with a 6.5/284 ( bullberry in a encore )shooting 140 grain game kings and shot 20 to 30 pigs and a few deer every year . The game king would have core/ jacket separation a bunch of the time , but all ways killed game quick. Big pigs were never hard to kill with the game king . I also shot just as much game with a 308 and 168 match kings. Always had a bigger entry hole than exit , if there was an exit hole. That's a very thing jacket on the match king, but I never failed to have extremely fast kills on game.

As far as shooting cast out of your tc , you might have to start at square one . That's why I asked you if you had slugged it. I think copper jacketed bullets will slightly expand and contract as they go down a slightly uneven bore . A cast will Probaly take the size of the restriction , which on my guns that I have firelapped have been on the chamber end of barrel. Talk to Veral , as he has a WEALTH of information.

kynardsj · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2012, 02:15:14 PM »

I guess the reason I wanted cast bullets to start with is that all my Ruger pistols shoot cast and I was just going to go with it. Guns are picky sometimes and you have to feed them what they like. The Encore just likes jacketed. I guess it could be worse, it could not shoot good with any of them. Rooterpig, that core kept on going across that greenfield.

Rooterpig · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2012, 03:05:22 PM »

Do yourself a favor and slug your muzzle and then find your smallest restriction . You will then have a baseline to start with. Is the writing on you barrel etched on or roll stamped? I have only hunted with my own cast bullets for the past two years, mainly with the 444 Marlin. My cast bullets are 3 thousand over bore, and two different loads will shoot less than one inch at 100 yards. Get in touch with Veral and get his book. Don't give up bro, you will get those cast bullets shooting!

Missionary5155 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:17:00 PM »

Greetings
As mentioned bullet fit is everything. If the throat is not properly filled yopu start the journey down the tube all messed up. If your barrel has loose and tight places there is no cast bullet going to make that journey in good shape.
Next pressure.. If the bullet is undersized all that pressure is going to find the weakest point and blow right through. Again a Fat bullet seals best. But also unless you are trying to penetrate 1 " steel plate... bullet base pressure should dictate how hard your bullet is. There is no need to shoot rock hard bullets with a 1000 fps velocity. My goal is to keep it as soft as possible (for good expansion in the nose). As base pressure increases then you start adding more WW.
You might consider heading to Castboolits site and reading up.
Mike in Peru

Rooterpig · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2012, 03:06:14 AM »

Mike from Peru is right on track!

Steve P · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2012, 10:52:17 AM »

My 45LC likes bullets sized .454 best. I also use heavier bullets. At moderate velocities they were unstable at about 75 yards. When I pumped up the velocity, they suddenly found a sweet spot and began to group. I am pushing the envelope with 2400 to get a good accurate load with a 285gr GC bullet.

Steve