Remember the days before premium bullets

[charles p]

Seems that in the days before the first Nosler BTs came around, and dozens of copies and upgrades, game used to fall just as dead when shot with plain vanilla bullets.  I found an old box of Hornady 130 spire points today in .277.  They used to work just well.  Plain green Sierra was good also.  So were Speers.  There wasn't much else in my neighborhood.  Rem Core-Lokts were the standard for factory loads. 
What have we gained by spending twice as much on bullets as before?  I can't see any difference except that many open too quickly and some too slowly.  Our deer have not changed at all.  Hunters however, have become much more different.

[cjrjck]

Night and day to me. Modern premium bullets are the cheapest insurance I know for big game. If you shoot five bullets a year at big game, it will cost, what, two or three dollars more than if you used a typical cup and core bullet? Well worth it to me.

[jlwilliams]

  No doubt that modern projectiles perform better than the old ones.  Still, cast lead puts quite a bit of meat on the ground.  Always has and always will.

[cjrjck]

  No doubt that modern projectiles perform better than the old ones.  Still, cast lead puts quite a bit of meat on the ground.  Always has and always will.

Modern hard cast bullets like those from Cast Performance are premium bullets in their own right and costly too.

[Bugflipper]

I just use the bulk rem core lokts. Never heard a complaint from the deer. They don't seem to notice. I still use a 308 as well. So I guess according to today's standards of premium bullets and magnum calibers, I am being a poor hunter. 

[sidewinder319]

Chas P I agree with you 100%.  I was ask to test some of these wonder bullets years ago by a major bullet company.  They wanted a report from the Wyoming game fields. The end results were they were no better and cost more than the regular bullets that were available at that time. I often laugh when I see hunters lay down that extra cash for a marketing program .

[bilmac]

Me too. put the plain vanilla bullet in the boiler room and the job is done. I would rather see the guys who spend the big money on over priced whiz bang bullets use the money to buy more of the plain jane bullets and use them to practice practice practice.

[Smokin Joe]

Remember the days before premium bullets

Yep, I could never kill anything. Now days I just wave the ammo box at 'em and they drop in their tracks.

[mcwoodduck]

What the premium bullets allow you to do is shoot lighter bullets or calibers at larger game.  The bullets expand uniformy and because of different features retain more weight, stay together better, and drive deeper into the animal as the deform evenly and go strait.  Older jacketed bullets when hitting bone would bend and change wound paths.
So a  standard 180 grain soft point out of a 308 or 30-06 is great for deer.  The larger bodies of Elk, Moose, Black bears, you may want the premium 180 grain bullets.  Rather than going to a larger caliber. ( Iwent to larger caliber and stayed with standard bullets)
Also with the advent of the Magnum craze a tougher bullet was needed that would not shatter at higher speeds and close ranges.
If you are shooting that same standard soft point 308 bullet out of a 300 WBY mag at 3300 FPS and hit a deer at 30 yards the bullet may shatter instead of penetrate and not kille the deer.  The same bullet that has slowed to 30-06  muzzel speeds at 200 yards will penetrate and kill the deer fine.

[keith44]

the biggest problem with so called premium bullets is that when a newer one is marketed, the jackets on the previous super slug are thinned just enough to alter the characteristics (when concerning terminal ballistics) of the former best bullets

[LanceR]

Well, I suppose the first question to look at is what is a "premium bullet"?  Is entry into that class determined by price, functionality, flexibility in usage?  There is no industry standard term or definition so it's left to we consumers to decide which bullets are "premium" when we vote with our wallets. 

Is a Sierra GameKing that cost only $2-3/100 more than a Remington Core-Lokt a premium bullet?  Based on it's potential long range accuracy I'd have to say it is.  It is the closest thing to a match bullet you can load at a reasonable price.  But does it kill any better than a Core-Lokt bullet?  I don't think so.  In practical terms it's only potential advantage is if it is shot out of an accurate enough rifle by a skilled enough shooter at a long enough range to showcase it's long range accuracy and functioning.

How about the Barnes TSX or the Nosler Partition?  At 3-4 times the cost of the Core-Lokt or GameKing they sure should be and based on their ability to expand to around 2x diameter within a few inches of penetration yet retain most of their weight for abnormally deep penetration I'd say they are premium bullets.

All one has to do is look at the cost difference between bullets as components and loaded ammunition to see that some of what we pay for in premium ammunition is opportunistic pricing.  For example, Sierra GameKings cost $2-3 more per hundred than Core-Lokts but the difference in the price of loaded ammunition is $40 or more per hundred rounds

For most of us, our quarry are white tailed deer.  They aren't any tougher than they were 100 years ago and none of the ones killed with standard bullets is coming back to life because they weren't killed enough but the choice of a bullet is still an individual one.  Ultimately, it is up to each of us to pick a suitable bullet and put it into our quarry in such a way as to quickly and humanely harvest it.  It's not a democracy where others get a say and the only person who gets a vote is the person behind the rifle.

For me it is a premium bullet if I need or want to take advantage of particular qualities not available in another bullet and I'm willing to pay more to get what I want.  If I don't need the particular abilities of that bullet it is just an overpriced bullet.

In my part of New York the regular deer and bear seasons are the same so I load a little heavier bullet than the deer need to be more comfortable if I run across an unexpected bear.   When I hunt for deer and have little to no chance of seeing a black bear I use hand loaded 165 grain Sierra GameKings in my .308.  When I am more likely to see bear I use a 168 grain Barnes TTSX.  My hunt, my choice.

Lance

[Swampman]

I prefer Remington Core-Lokts and cast lead bullets over everything else.  I don't have money to waste.

[cjrjck]

My premium Hornady bonded bullets cost me about 45 cents each and the standard Hornady bullet about 25 cents each. For hunting applications let's say I load 200 a year. That's about a the cost of a tank of gas. I'll pay for the premium especially considering that out of all the components that go into a hunt, it is the only one that actually kills the game animal.

[Swampman]

But for deer size game the expensive bullets don't work as well.

[buck460XVR]

I guess folks don't remember that at one time Core-Lokts were considered THE premium bullet.

Whether for SD/HD or hunting one should use what they have the most confidence in. Truth is, in the majority of cases, bullet type is not the reason for success or the lack of it. You still gotta hit 'em where it counts. Very seldom will a premium bullet make a difference on a bad hit.....or even a marginal hit. Now at the ranges you shoot, if  they are considerably more accurate, then the price of premium over standards bullets is a not an issue. Otherwise you're probably wasting your monies. The exception would be dangerous game.

[bilmac]

Sales men are successful at selling these things because there is no way to test their claims. The conditions to get a valid field test are impossible to meet, just a huge number of variables that could never be controlled. And so they come up with a bunch of engineering tricks that seem to prove that their product is better. What they can not prove and never will prove is that there was anything wrong with bullets that were made 20 or 30 years ago.

I can't prove anything either,  too many variables, but I guess I have shot well over a thousand animals, various sizes, but mostly in the deer antelope size. I have done this with various caliber rifles and pistols a few with cast bullets but mostly with standard bullets made by Hornaday, Sierra, Speer, Remington, and Winchester. I cannot recall any time that I thought my bullet was not as good as it should have been.

Sure you can choose one of the oldies for a job it wasn't intended to do and have bad result. Don't shoot varmint bullets at elk, but if you follow the manufacturers recommendations I just can't find fault with the standard bullets. 

[cjrjck]

It is just a matter of personal preference. I simply prefer the added insurance that a better made bullet gives me and obviously others do too since the premium bullet market has grown so much in the last ten years. While as it is said above that regular bullets seldom fail, once is enough for me.

[Swampman]

The only bullets that I have had fail, were "premium" bullets.  That's why I don't use them.
 

[bilmac]

Gotta offer an apology. I said I had killed over a thousand animals. I guess it is easy to let the memories get out of whack with reality. I've been hunting since it was legal for me 14 years of age. That makes about 50 years plus experience, with very few years I didn't. Four animals a year would be a good average for me, plus those my wife and kids have shot. It's too easy to exaggerate on this thing called the internet.

[Empty Quiver]

I guess folks don't remember that at one time Core-Lokts were considered THE premium bullet.

Whether for SD/HD or hunting one should use what they have the most confidence in. Truth is, in the majority of cases, bullet type is not the reason for success or the lack of it. You still gotta hit 'em where it counts. Very seldom will a premium bullet make a difference on a bad hit.....or even a marginal hit. Now at the ranges you shoot, if  they are considerably more accurate, then the price of premium over standards bullets is a not an issue. Otherwise you're probably wasting your monies. The exception would be dangerous game.

I believe you are onto something, yesterdays premium bullets have become todays value bullet in many cases.


I believe the main reason to choose the superpremium bullet is when shooting magnum cartridges. The very high starting speeds will exceed what the non premium bullets were designed to handle. Once the speed starts bleeding off, the difference is less valuable. You might argue that at 400 yards that tough premium bullet is less effective than a cheap cup and core design. The same design might blow up at 25 yards when it hits a scapula bone though.

[mcwoodduck]

But for deer size game the expensive bullets don't work as well.

In the swamps I agree.  A big round nose heavy for caliber bullet knocks down and kills deer.
And the world revolves around building the better mouse trap.
If you design and build what you think is a better bullet, and people want it, good for you.  If it is better accuracy, more consistant mushroom, or holds together better at higher speeds that is an improvment over something else. 
And people seem to want them.  They may not need them, but they want them for one of the improvements they think the bullet has.
I also see the Premium bullets as an option for the one gun big game guys.  Especally if that one rilfe is a sub 30 caliber. And you plan on hunting othern than deer and pigs.
 I also have to use what are called premium bullets to meet the NO lead laws in some areas.
 

[jlwilliams]

  I've put a little more thought into this.  There is no question that cast lead drops game and that good old core locked bullets are as good today as they ever were.  That said, I hope they keep coming up with new stuff.  Today's high performance handgun ammo is better than it used to be.  I'm not going to touch the 9mm vs 45acp debate but I wilol say that 9mm has a poor reputation based on old ammo and that today's stuff is way better.  Look at the 135 grain Lawman or the Golden Saber.  Not your grandpappy's Luger loads by a long shot.

[Lloyd Smale]

Like swampy ive had worse luck with premiums then with standard bullets. You woundnt get me to load another barnes bullet. About the only premium bullets ill use are nos partitions and speer grand slams. Even them arent used much. If i need more killig power i sometimes step in in weight with a cup and core bullet but usually if i need more i just take a bigger stick!

[anachronism]

Modern hard cast bullets like those from Cast Performance are premium bullets in their own right and costly too.


Seriously, people buy cast bullets?

Actually the Hornady Interlock & Remington Core-lokt were the premium bullets of the day when introduced. The inner belts were considered quite an important upgrade, and the first Nosler Partitions were pretty much considered to be witchcraft. Before that, it was often considered best to use very heavy bullets for the caliber to increase penetration. A 150 gr 30-06 was either a target, or a varmint bullet. Life began at 180 gr in 30 caliber. Elmer Keith wrote about giving up on the 30-06 for elk because the bullets wouldn't penetrate well. He ended up with 35 & 400 Whelens, and then seemed to settle on 333 & 338 caliber for elk. With 300 gr bullets.

[Empty Quiver]

If i need more killig power i sometimes step in in weight with a cup and core bullet but usually if i need more i just take a bigger stick!

Like our forefathers before us.   Fancy bullets are to eliminate the need for the big stick, the big stick does work mighty well though.

[Drilling Man]

  I really don't see what the big deal is about premium bullets...  I shot 5 of them this deer season, 2 to check my rifle, and i shot 3 deer with the other 3.  I don't think that will break me!
 
  The reason i MUCH prefer premium bullets is, i work up one load/bullet for my rifle.  I hunt everything from moose and bear on down to smaller big game with that rifle.  Using premium bullets allows me to take all my big game with that rifle/bullet/load, big to small and the bullet works in EVERY case.
 
  I have learned where that load hits at all of my hunting distances, and i'm a better game shot because of it.  I don't have to remember where several loads shoot, just the one that i always use.
 
  I think my big game hunting/shooting record speaks for itself, as i've been pretty successful putting meat in my freezer for more than  40 years since i first started using premium bullets.
 
  Using one load for everything has worked out perfectly for me!
 
  DM

[woodchukhntr]

New premium bullets and magnum cartridges as well as new rifles will continue to be introduced because we are a consumer society and "new is good".  Many shooters become convinced by the gun writers articles that will continue to tell us that the newest whatever is the best thing to come around ever!  How often do you see a writer call the latest offering a pice of junk?  Remember the Remington Viper?  It only lasted for 5 years dealers won't even take them in trade.  How about Winchester's 1964 debacle?
When I started shooting in the 60's there were 3 Rem. 700 models:  ADL, BDL and BDL Varmint.  I can't keep track of how many there are now.

[cwlongshot]

 I have tried them and would use them for a special hunt or especially big game. But by and large I still use the std bullets I have used since pop showed me how to reload. I have quite a few bullets on my shelves, I know I have two partial boxes of Barnes X bullets form when they first came out and another two boxes of them for the 454 when Cabelas slashed the $$ to what I was willing to spend to try them.
 
I also agree, Winchester Silver tips, Remington Bronze points and Corlokts where the "premium line". Remember NORMA ammo? That was always well respected as well. My uncle used Norma bullets (I think Herters carried them) as his "premium" bullet. Then Federals "Premium line" utilized Sierra bullets. Later Winchester followed suite using a hybridized (combined technology) Nosler. Remington supped up the Corlokt and gave it a new name that escapes me... Now Nosler has its own line of ammo.
 
To me a premium bullet is a Speer Grand Slam (Back when they had the GS on the base), Nosler Partition and Accu Bond and Barnes copper jobbers. Of those I use the Speer and Nosler, but for "special" jobs.
 
I have two favorite bullets that have never let me down. A Sierra spitzer boat-tail and a Hornady RN.
 
CW

[Rock Home Isle]

My reloading progession started with the Remington Bronze Points...then I went to Winchester Silver Tips...I used to be able to get them in bulk bags, and they worked reasonably well. Once I started weighing my bullets as I loaded them I moved on to Hornady, but quickly continued to Sierra BTs in the green cardboard box....
 
I still shoot Sierras, but now thay are called Game Kings...I have a few Nosler Partitions and my new/latest favorite is the Barnes TSX.

[Rock Home Isle]

Somewhere I think that I still have a bag of 500 Remington Power Points...Memories.