Author Topic: The Cowboy Argument (Read 3323 times)

Spirithawk · « **on:** January 06, 2012, 01:29:44 PM »

Ya know? A lot of folks claim that those who get CCW Permits do so because we want to play Cowboy. Best they can come up with to trash us I guess. If they had a clue as to what they are talking about they would know just how lame a statement they are spouting. If you take on the resonsibility of carrying you are held to far stricter standards than those who don't. That is as it should be. Someone legaly carrying is far more likely to walk away from a fight and far more likely to avoid a confrontation, than someone who doesn't carry. Either that or you quickly lose your right to carry. Kinda shoots, pardon the unintentional pun, the heck out of the Cowboy insinuations now don't it?

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2012, 01:52:07 PM »

My local newspaper ran a story of a guy that used his (until then) concealed handgun to intimidate someone. The authorities have collected all of his guns pending an investigation.

Just today I was involved in a conversation with some friends, one of whom is an ex-cop. The subject of home defense came up. Our state does not have a castle law. One of the guys said he was advised that if he had to shoot someone outside his house, he should drag him inside. Even the dumbest investigator could determine what happened and the prosecutor would probably charge him with manslaughter or murder. The question would be: Why did you mess with the evidence? Did you intend to shoot someone, and this is the guy you chose? If the homeowner was a "cowboy" who had to have the latest $3000 self-defense pistol with the hottest ammo, he would be in big trouble.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2012, 02:13:13 PM »

Over the years I've known a few 'cowboys' who just liked to pick fights. These guys can always be counted on to find an insult (or worse, disrespect) stand up to it and make sure it comes to blows. By and large, these John Waynes are fistfighters. I also know many, many legally armed men. There is no comparison between these two types of guys.

The "cowboy" arguement against legal concealed carry is completely without merit but you can count on hearing it for ever. It's a peice of trash that just sounds believable to nitwits who don't know any better.

bilmac · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2012, 06:05:29 PM »

An armed society is a polite society.

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2012, 01:23:42 AM »

There will always be the Carrie Nations of this world, wanting everything to be nice, peaceful and without harm to anyone.
Let them live in their dream world--the cops will be there in 15 minutes to protect them.
I have carried for over 40 years without a problem with or from anyone--because they didn't know.
Let a sleeping dog lie.
Blessings

BUGEYE · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2012, 02:32:49 AM »

When I'm in public, I'm the most polite person you will ever see because I'm armed and don't want to use it. however, in the right situation I would use it instantly.
I pray that I will never have to.

bilmac · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2012, 04:28:06 AM »

Ever notice that big dogs are the nice friendly calm ones. Little dogs are the snippy yappy nasty ones. Being confident, secure and unafraid makes us like the big dog.

Brett · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2012, 05:10:17 AM »

Bugeye's and Bilmac's comments are right on the money. There have been a few occasions where I have bit my lip and just walked away from situations since I began carrying that probably would have lead to a bigger seen back in the day. This could be partly due to me being a little more 'mature' (okay.. older) but I think a lot has to do with knowing that the gun adds a whole new dimension to the situation that I don't wish to visit.

painted horse · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2012, 06:37:13 AM »

My take on CCW is that these are the people who are "willing" to take individual responsibility for their (and in some cases others) safety and actions. The folks that don't believe in CCW and personal ownership of weapons in general, are the same ones that believe if something goes wrong it's always someone else's fault or responsibilty. I don't carry a gun on my person, I don't feel it's necessary in the small rural community I live in, do have one in the truck though. I may change that in the near future because i'm like the guy on some tv show I heard, I ain't to old to fight, but I am to old to take an a$$-kickin.

woods · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2012, 11:31:46 AM »

I am the same as painted horse my comunity is pretty small and most that know me, know the way of the farmers around my area, most are armed for pest control. It's luck of the draw what I'm carring in my truck or belt may be a 22 maybe a 44. I don't look for problems but would step up if the situation called for it but only in defense of life. I prefer the state police take care of the problem when it comes to 2 legged vermin/ I know it's only a matter of time before the drugs and thievery comes to town and I don't look forward to the day. With a CCP comes a code that I believe shoold be followed to the T with morality and integrity its no jokeing matter with the resposibility you take with any weapon. As far as concealed carry thats what it should be, concealed.

woods

smokehouserex · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:00:41 PM »

Hello Gentlemen:
I agree with you'all. I think that we who have tried to avoid trouble, for most of our lives, are law-abiding citizens and with that we are qualified to obtain a CWP. I also believe that is a good reason that we should be able to carry. Most of the Hotheads have a record already and cannot obtain a CWP.
I have loved firearms since I was a child with cap pistols and have never wanted to shoot anyone. All of us have had to defend ourselves sometime in our lives but for the most part we are not troublemakers.
The" hollywood cowboy" image has caused a lot of misunderstandings in the public arena and done immeasurable harm with the attitude that gun-lovers are a violent and wreckless breed. JMO
HM

Spirithawk · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2012, 01:11:31 PM »

Brett · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2012, 01:59:17 PM »

“S i v i s p a c e m , p a r a
b e l l u m”

BBF · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2012, 10:04:03 AM »

Hey !!

Not all of us speak/read "ROMAN"

dougk · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2012, 03:56:03 PM »

Quote from: Brett on January 08, 2012, 01:59:17 PM

“S i v i s p a c e m , p a r a
b e l l u m”

Hey guys this means "if you want Peace prepare for war."

Brett in the future if you want to post big letters in Latin please be respectful and provide the translation. Thanks Doug

If you have any concerns or issues please send me a PM

Brett · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2012, 04:53:37 PM »

Quote from: dougk on January 09, 2012, 03:56:03 PM

Quote from: Brett on January 08, 2012, 01:59:17 PM
“S i v i s p a c e m , p a r a
b e l l u m”

Hey guys this means "if you want Peace prepare for war."

Brett in the future if you want to post big letters in Latin please be respectful and provide the translation. Thanks Doug

If you have any concerns or issues please send me a PM

Sorry guys, I thought this quote was common knowledge like "Semper Fidelis" (Latin for always faithful).

Duke0313 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2012, 05:15:51 PM »

Since when did the term "cowboy" become demeaning and derogatory? Oh well, guess I'll just have to settle for "Texan"...or is that an ugly word, too???

Spirithawk · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2012, 05:38:50 PM »

Never said it was offensive, just the way some folks use the term in implying someone who carries is trigger happy and thus a Cowboy I find offensive. But in fact, hmmmmm, let's see, Cowboys were rough people that worked hard and played hard and knew how to take care of things and themselves in a fight. I don't mind being called a cowboy even though I'm Cherokee.

dougk · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2012, 02:21:56 AM »

Quote from: Duke0313 on January 09, 2012, 05:15:51 PM

Since when did the term "cowboy" become demeaning and derogatory? Oh well, guess I'll just have to settle for "Texan"...or is that an ugly word, too???

Hey Duke
you can call me a Texan any time

dougk · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2012, 02:23:32 AM »

Quote from: Brett on January 09, 2012, 04:53:37 PM

Quote from: dougk on January 09, 2012, 03:56:03 PM
Quote from: Brett on January 08, 2012, 01:59:17 PM
“S i v i s p a c e m , p a r a
b e l l u m”

Hey guys this means "if you want Peace prepare for war."

Brett in the future if you want to post big letters in Latin please be respectful and provide the translation. Thanks Doug

If you have any concerns or issues please send me a PM

Sorry guys, I thought this quote was common knowledge like "Semper Fidelis" (Latin for always faithful).

Thanks Brett

Us cowboys dont speak Roman.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2012, 02:26:11 AM »

I will only go "cowboy" to protect myself from those going "postal"

.

when one considers the cost in defending oneself in civil court in evan a clean shooting it is easy to see most of us can't afford to go "cowboy" .

coop923 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2012, 11:28:52 AM »

Don't know for sure, but I think the "cowboy" term in this manner came from Europe early WWII to refer to Americans coming in to essentially save the day.

Anyone old enough to know "Tennessee Saturday Night" by Red Foley? I always liked the song. Same idea as some other posts:

-When they really get together there's a lot of fun
They all know the other fella packs a gun
Everybody does his best to act just right
Cause it's gonna be a funeral if you start a fight...

I know when I carry, I'm like BUGEYE, I certainly don't want to use it.

timothy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2012, 01:11:10 PM »

I dont think cowboys are as scary as the current swat team tactical ufc heavy metal viagra generation. Sadly more people with ccw's is going to mean more people have them that shouldnt because they didnt pay attention in class. I remember one lady in my class was of the impression it was a licence to kill untill the instructor repeatedly told her otherwise. At my last job I knew of an alcoholic and a drug dealer who both had their ccw. These people surely wont help our cause, and I worry about our image in the future considering how many people have ccw's now days.

twoshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2012, 06:31:44 PM »

That license does not always mean as much as, or what you think it does, I carried long before there was any permit. I did a simple risk- benefit analysis, although at the time I would not have recognized that term. I always knew that being in trouble was better than being dead, and under those circumstances, you had damn well better not get caught, so you were extremely cautious. I also never carried every day, only if there were a reasonable chance I might need it. The CCW has just shifted the odds in my favor, and the castle doctrine even more so.
I find the post above very interesting, about the changing attitude and tactics of the police. They are no longer "police", they are "imperial storm troopers". The story about the recent school shooting illustrates that well. When the police arrived, they were about arriving in force, setting up perimeters, getting everything ready, then going in, meanwhile there could be kids bleeding to death in there. They also are not real concerned about anyone "rights" and would rather endanger the general public than jack up their own risk, as far as I can see.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:52:32 PM »

They are now Law Enforcement Officers, with much emphasis on Force. I can somewhat understand the thought behind many of the tactics utilized, nobody wants to leave work in an ambulance. The look and feel is much to militarized and unneeded. Street cops wearing BDU's? Comfortable and cheap, sure, emitting an aura of force rather than respect. I prefer an officer in uniform not in battle dress.

Anti's are not about to allow their ignorance to get in the way of their opinion. I have found that very few are aware of the laws, training, responsibility, or attitudes that legal carry entails. I have found that a calm rational dialogue does go a long way towards educating most people. I don't really intend for them to be "converted". I look at it more towards an educational opportunity. The fire extinguisher analogy, or a similar air bag analogy, might just illicit thought in someone who is willing to listen. After removing the ignorance on the subject you have taken away many of the emotional arguments that are the foundation of the anti case.

They work from feelings not facts.

williamlayton · « **Reply #25 on:** March 03, 2012, 03:43:08 AM »

HUMMMM---

.
I was in a coffee conversation yesterday with a law enforcement officer and a good gunsmith. Talking about generalities and life.
We were discussing the police officers new AR in .308 which he had brought back to the gunsmith to have the barrel floated--&-- other things.
I told Ed--the gunsmith about my recent Python find and the officer chimed in with it was a wonderful gun but tended to get out of time easily if you hit somebody with it--and the old highway patrolman that he and I both prefer for this kind of duty carry.
I have carried a gun since, well actually the late 50's in the vehicle and on my person since 1964. It was then a little PPK and nobody knew it was on me except me.
It didn't make me feel big or mean or cowboy or cool. It always just felt natural--like it belonged.
Sure it was illegal--everbody, or, most everybody was illegal back in the day.
I only had one incidence that I was determined that if a situation continued someone was going to get shot--so far--and--I hope, the last.
I have never understood all the controversy. If someone is going to do something they usually do it without consulting a lawyer.
Blessings

timothy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 03, 2012, 04:12:19 AM »

Quote

Sure it was illegal--everbody, or, most everybody was illegal back in the day.

And I bet back then if a police officer saw that gun he'd give you a ticket. Sheeez today he'd start screaming GUN GUN, draw his and point it at you, order you to get out of the car, tackle you and eventually get you handcuffed, then arrest you and confiscate your gun never to be seen again. ''Would you like to see my permit now officer?" LOL

bilmac · « **Reply #27 on:** March 03, 2012, 05:11:35 AM »

The cop that we all saw doing that on the tape lost his job. I would hope that such behavior would be rare anywhere in the country. Where I live,I doubt that a guy like that could keep his job if those sorts of attitudes showed up even before he started pulling stunts like we all saw.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #28 on:** March 03, 2012, 01:23:33 PM »

I might be a cowboy; sometimes I carry a single action.

Lonegun1894 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2012, 02:35:08 AM »

I have been a Texas Peace Officer since 2008, and I would much rather see law abiding responsible types carry and live, than have to go tell the family that they didn't. I have had a CHL since 2002, but can't say I never carried before then. I come across other licensees regularly and I have NEVER had any type of problem with one. If anything, I ask what they carry and leave it at that but have gotten into fairly interesting conversations with several. In fact, there have been few instances where I have had a problem with anyone carrying. The top two that come to mind were a gang member who had an AK-47 shoved down his very loose pants, and another who threw his pistol in the toilet first, and then the many small bags of crack and meth on top of it and tried to flush it all. I dont know if anything flushed, but I do know that a Hi-Point 9mm and 19 bags of meth and crack did not.