USDA to close 249 offices this year.

[powderman]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/10/us-usa-farmers-idUSTRE80901B20120110?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true
 
 
 
At least it's a start at trimming the fat. POWDERMAN. 

[Lost Farmboy]

  Good news for the Amish. We need to make some more cuts to their budget, so they can't afford to arrest Amish for selling milk.

[Ranch13]

They'ld be further ahead to kill the CRP program, that'ld account for about that same 150 million in Wyoming alone. Would only be a drop in the bucket compared to what the non expenditures would be in all the major farm states.

[powderman]

  Good news for the Amish. We need to make some more cuts to their budget, so they can't afford to arrest Amish for selling milk.

 
LOST. I remember that story. Most of my family was raised on fresh milk, nothing wrong with it. I hope the one involved there are closed down. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

They'ld be further ahead to kill the CRP program, that'ld account for about that same 150 million in Wyoming alone. Would only be a drop in the bucket compared to what the non expenditures would be in all the major farm states.

I've caught a lot of flak over my stand on CRP from other hunters, but I'm against it.  growing up in Illinois, I saw a lot more small game on cropland than on fallow land.  they seem to plant fescue on it and even cows won't eat that if they can get something else.

[no guns here]

Don't know about Illinois, but in Oklahoma and Texas the crops go all the way to the fence line now.  Nothing there to support small game or big game for most of the year.  With modern radio GPS tractors, they can get to within an inch of each row and use every bit of the fields.  Makes for easy hunting though.  All you have to do is drive by at 60 mph and you're done.  The various progams to leave the land fallow actually support game and wildlife.  But that's just my take on it.  YMMV...
 
NGH

[BUGEYE]

Don't know about Illinois, but in Oklahoma and Texas the crops go all the way to the fence line now.  Nothing there to support small game or big game for most of the year.  With modern radio GPS tractors, they can get to within an inch of each row and use every bit of the fields.  Makes for easy hunting though.  All you have to do is drive by at 60 mph and you're done.  The various progams to leave the land fallow actually support game and wildlife.  But that's just my take on it.  YMMV...
 
NGH

well I must say, that the farms of my youth did have brushy fence rows.
I just don't like subsidies.

[Ranch13]

Bugeye, you're right. The big attraction so called "sportsmen" have to the CRP it's usually enrolled in some sort of "Walk in area" ( another free money handout) The CRP program, busted many small farming towns, when the land went into CRP there was less call for tires,fuel, parts and service. I know one town that had 2 auto dealers, 2 hardware stores, a JD Dealer, two grocery stores and a small medical clinic along with two grain dealers, a drugstore and just a full compliment. Now there's 1 hardware/parts store, the medical clinic ,drugstore and the one surviving grocery store is not well stocked...
 The CRP program is a rediculous waste of borrowed Chinese money.

[Cuts Crooked]

I guess a lot of people have forgotten the lessons of "the dust bowl" days?

[Ranch13]

No with the tillage practices used today, it's pretty unlikely a return to the dustbowl days will happen. Not impossible, but certainly not likely.

[dukkillr]

Bugeye, you're right. The big attraction so called "sportsmen" have to the CRP it's usually enrolled in some sort of "Walk in area" ( another free money handout) The CRP program, busted many small farming towns, when the land went into CRP there was less call for tires,fuel, parts and service. I know one town that had 2 auto dealers, 2 hardware stores, a JD Dealer, two grocery stores and a small medical clinic along with two grain dealers, a drugstore and just a full compliment. Now there's 1 hardware/parts store, the medical clinic ,drugstore and the one surviving grocery store is not well stocked...
 The CRP program is a rediculous waste of borrowed Chinese money.

I'm not a supporter of farm subsidies.  But, at least in the midwestern states I hunt, the above statement is simply not true.  Of the millions of acres enrolled in CRP only a very small fraction of those acres in Kansas, Missouri, South Dakota, and Oklahoma are enrolled in Walk in programs.  Additionally, understand that no one forced those farmers to enroll their ground, and in most cases the contracts are lower than the cash rental value of the ground.  Small farmers died out for a variety of reasons, but the economy of scale in todays equipment is the biggest reason.  Simple capitalism.
 
I worked in Conservation law for several years and I've hunted on family ground for years that has been in CRP, including a piece that will be coming out of contract in the spring and cannot be renewed.  I've hunted CRP in 4 states this year alone, none of which were walk-in.  I also own a piece of ground in the (similar but smaller) WRP program.  I have some experience with these programs.  They are good for wildlife, good for hunting and it's future, good for water quality and erosion control, and bad for capitalism and the average American tax payers.  Just make your decisions based on accurate information.

[BUGEYE]

I have accurate information.  "I" meaning me, am paying a farmer to not utilize land, so as to stabilize food prices. I will never see most of that land and sure won't get to hunt on it.  the only entity that I have worked for that was subsidized, was the Air Force.  The farm lobby is powerful with powerful reps and senators from that area, so it seems that CRP is just another earmark that pays their constituents and screws everyone else.
subsidies are just plain wrong because they benefit a very small group of people at the expense of millions.

[Ranch13]

Accurate information is the payments on those CRP acres will bring more income into the farm than will the actual farming of it. Here the average payment on wheat acreage is 32$ an acre, plus 5 $ an acre for maintenance. That brings the total up to 37$ per every single acre per year for a minimum of 10 years. There's no way a farmer can clear that much pure profit from farming that same acreage, not at 4$ fuel and the grains bringing the same price as we got for it in the 60's. Especially if you consider that under the plow only 1/2 of that acreage would be producing a crop on any given year. It costs as much or more to put sweeps on a chisel plow as it did to buy that chisel plow in 1970.
 No there's no capitalism involved in the CRP, it's all a welfare socialist state of being, and its sucking the country right down the hole with the money grubbing, and then the silliness of those that claim it " good for the wildlife". How dang much Chinese money do you Paul supporters think we need to dump down a rat hole in the name of "wildlife"?
 I know of several pieces of land that the taxpayers bought and paid for via the "CRP" program and the "owners" would be lucky to find the thing without a GPS and coordinates marked on the map.
 
 

[Ranch13]

I have accurate information.  "I" meaning me, am paying a farmer to not utilize land, so as to stabilize food prices. I will never see most of that land and sure won't get to hunt on it.  the only entity that I have worked for that was subsidized, was the Air Force.  The farm lobby is powerful with powerful reps and senators from that area, so it seems that CRP is just another earmark that pays their constituents and screws everyone else.
subsidies are just plain wrong because they benefit a very small group of people at the expense of millions.

Bugeye, it's not the farmers that want the CRP so much as it's the socialist and wildlife groups. The socialist like it because it keeps what used to be mostly independant and free thinking people under the governments thumb and eventually dependant on that government check.
 The wildlife groups like it because of the so called "improoved habitat". Yet those clowns are the first ones that scream to bloody murder it's the ethanol driving prices higher, and not take a notice of how much land is gone out of production thru the "CRP" and other programs and that is getting paved over that drives the price of field corn (that none of them have ever in their lives ate) up.

[Ranch13]

[I'm not a supporter of farm subsidies.  But, at least in the midwestern states I hunt, the above statement is simply not true.  Of the millions of acres enrolled in CRP only a very small fraction of those acres in Kansas, Missouri, South Dakota, and Oklahoma are enrolled in Walk in programs.  Additionally, understand that no one forced those farmers to enroll their ground, and in most cases the contracts are lower than the cash rental value of the ground.  Small farmers died out for a variety of reasons, but the economy of scale in todays equipment is the biggest reason.  Simple capitalism.
 
I worked in Conservation law for several years and I've hunted on family ground for years that has been in CRP, including a piece that will be coming out of contract in the spring and cannot be renewed.  I've hunted CRP in 4 states this year alone, none of which were walk-in.  I also own a piece of ground in the (similar but smaller) WRP program.  I have some experience with these programs.  They are good for wildlife, good for hunting and it's future, good for water quality and erosion control, and bad for capitalism and the average American tax payers.  Just make your decisions based on accurate information.

Here's what South Dakota has to say about it http://gfp.sd.gov/wildlife/private-land/walk-in.aspx
Nebraska's take on it http://www.outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/programs/crp/crp.asp
There's more, but the fact is the game and fish departments have all come to rely on the CRP program.
 As to your families land not ever able to go into CRP again. That's questionable, there was a CRP signup just this last fall that got 160 new contracts here in Goshen co. alone, most of which were contracts that were due to expire this October, some of which have been enrolled since the very beginning in the mid 1980's. And now we're told as of yesterday there's another CRP signup that was contained in the continuing budget resolution for this coming year.
Welfare payments galore....

[dukkillr]

[I'm not a supporter of farm subsidies.  But, at least in the midwestern states I hunt, the above statement is simply not true.  Of the millions of acres enrolled in CRP only a very small fraction of those acres in Kansas, Missouri, South Dakota, and Oklahoma are enrolled in Walk in programs.  Additionally, understand that no one forced those farmers to enroll their ground, and in most cases the contracts are lower than the cash rental value of the ground.  Small farmers died out for a variety of reasons, but the economy of scale in todays equipment is the biggest reason.  Simple capitalism.
 
I worked in Conservation law for several years and I've hunted on family ground for years that has been in CRP, including a piece that will be coming out of contract in the spring and cannot be renewed.  I've hunted CRP in 4 states this year alone, none of which were walk-in.  I also own a piece of ground in the (similar but smaller) WRP program.  I have some experience with these programs.  They are good for wildlife, good for hunting and it's future, good for water quality and erosion control, and bad for capitalism and the average American tax payers.  Just make your decisions based on accurate information.

Here's what South Dakota has to say about it http://gfp.sd.gov/wildlife/private-land/walk-in.aspx
Nebraska's take on it http://www.outdoornebraska.ne.gov/hunting/programs/crp/crp.asp
There's more, but the fact is the game and fish departments have all come to rely on the CRP program.
 As to your families land not ever able to go into CRP again. That's questionable, there was a CRP signup just this last fall that got 160 new contracts here in Goshen co. alone, most of which were contracts that were due to expire this October, some of which have been enrolled since the very beginning in the mid 1980's. And now we're told as of yesterday there's another CRP signup that was contained in the continuing budget resolution for this coming year.
Welfare payments galore....

What's fascinating is that you seem to believe I am arguing for support of the CRP program when both my first sentence and my last told you otherwise.  I can only assume that you are assigning me a belief so that you can argue with what you wish I had said.
 
What I really did say is that there are real and tangible benefits to the CRP and other conservation programs, and that some of what you said was simply incorrect.  Both of those statements continue to be true. 
 
CRP programs are not "usually" enrolled in some type of walk-in program.  It's a fact, I'm sorry if you would prefer it not be, but it is.
 
FYI cash rental value on crop ground in this part of the country is around $100 an acre for dry ground (as of last week).  Thats why $37ish CRP payment does not make sense.  I doubt if you can rent pasture for 38$ an acre. 
 
And while I have no idea what you sold grain for in the 1960s I have a very good idea what you sold it for from about 1990-2012.  Just a few years ago farmers were selling corn, if they played it right, in the 3.00$ range.  This year you did badly to get just twice that.  Wheat futures at one point this year went in the range of 25$! 
 
Farmers don't need subsidies, and voters need to make informed decisions about government spending.  But informed decisions should be made based on accurate information.  If someone needs to skew the information to try and strengthen their point, they usually don't have a good point...   

[BUGEYE]

as you know, I don't like subsidies.
the few CRP fields that I've seen were planted in coarse fescue which doesn't feed many wild animals.
might be good for nesting, but it's a home with an empty pantry.

[Ranch13]

[.  Just make your decisions based on accurate information.

What's fascinating is that you seem to believe I am arguing for support of the CRP program when both my first sentence and my last told you otherwise.  I can only assume that you are assigning me a belief so that you can argue with what you wish I had said.
 
What I really did say is that there are real and tangible benefits to the CRP and other conservation programs, and that some of what you said was simply incorrect.  Both of those statements continue to be true. 
 
CRP programs are not "usually" enrolled in some type of walk-in program.  It's a fact, I'm sorry if you would prefer it not be, but it is.
 
FYI cash rental value on crop ground in this part of the country is around $100 an acre for dry ground (as of last week).  Thats why $37ish CRP payment does not make sense.  I doubt if you can rent pasture for 38$ an acre. 
 
And while I have no idea what you sold grain for in the 1960s I have a very good idea what you sold it for from about 1990-2012.  Just a few years ago farmers were selling corn, if they played it right, in the 3.00$ range.  This year you did badly to get just twice that.  Wheat futures at one point this year went in the range of 25$! 
 
Farmers don't need subsidies, and voters need to make informed decisions about government spending.  But informed decisions should be made based on accurate information.  If someone needs to skew the information to try and strengthen their point, they usually don't have a good point...

You sir were the one that started the crap about using good information, and quite frankly you're numbers are a bit skewed,which is not unusual for someone that doesn't derive their livelyhood from ag production.
 I can tell  you exactly what I got for wheat up to 1998, with the ldp payment it came to 2.30 a bushell, because that's when I took the bull by the horn and planted that ground to grass on my own.Yes there's been a couple of hot spots in the wheat market and corn the last couple of years at times, but yesterday cash price was 6.10$ on both.
 The wheat base here is 23 bushel, that's why the 32$ rental payment. I will also tell you that I sit on a board that approoves and signs of on these CRP leases, and know a damnsite more about the ins and outs of them than you may ever hope to.
Yes you can rent pasture here well under 38$.I have some private land leases for 5$ an acre and some I pay 23 $ per aum on.
If you paid any attention here in eastern Wyoming, Western Nebraska, South Dakota, and NE Colorado, you'ld dang sure in short order find out the majority of the CRP acres are enrolled in a Walk in Area, or some sort of hunter management thing.The Wyoming Wildlife magazine ( wyoming game and fish's monthly publication) has a long article about the benefits to sportsmen and the wildlife and the amount of hunting opportunities it provides.
 So there's accurate facts.

[no guns here]

I don't say whether CRP is good or not.  I just don't know that much about it.  I do say that I'd rather hunt on CRP land than a laser-levelled, tilled to the edge, homogenous crop of Monsanto whatever it is that the big, multi-national, corporately owned and managed farm has planted.  Looks to me like most CRP land isn't planted at all but left to grow naturally whatever weeds, grasses, brush and trees pop up there.  Why would anyone spend good money to plant on land that can't be harvested?  Just let it go and it'll be covered and stable in one growing season.
 
 
NGH

[Ranch13]

Land enrolled in the CRP program has to be planted with a specified blend of grasses and forb's and the planting can include trees. And the cost of that planting is costshared by the government.

[hunt-m-up]

Get those cash rents up and CRP becomes a non-issue. At $400-600 an acre around here there's no more CRP and the pheasant and quail population is a memory. Our record harvests in the state of a million plus birds are gone. My Dad's farm was in CRP up until about ten years ago. When the rent went to $150+ an acre and the CRP was still at $90, economics took over, he rented it out. There weren't as many restrictions then on CRP, cover it with grass and control the weeds. Mostly around here we're left with a few buffer strips around creeks, which I think are beneficial for water quality as much as anything. I'm not a big fan of subsidies for productive land, but I would never say it doesn't offer a great benefit to wildlife, it does and I've seen it.
Back to the OP's topic, these offices haved been bloated for a while, pandering to the farm and environmental lobbies. Time to make them more lean.