.308 versus .243?

[His lordship.]

I am looking at adding a second centerfire scoped rifle.  I have a Mossberg 4 X 4 in .270 Win, and I like the gun, but am looking at some variety.  Focusing on getting a Savage or a Remington 700 in either .243 Win. or .308, each has its advantages and disadvantages. 
 
I mostly bench shoot, but do varmint hunt and want something as an optional deer/hog caliber.  I used to own a Rem. ADL in .243, handloaded for it and it frequently had a flyer for each 5 shot group, I have read from several sources that the .243 is moody about accuracy.  I also used factory loads to see if it was my handloads.  I really liked the lack of recoil though.  Bullets are cheaper than .30 cal.
 
The .308 has the option of using military surplus ammo, is more than enough for most big game and is known to be accurate and user friendly for handloaders.  I have never owned a .308 either, but the idea of a thumping gun in recoil is not my first choice, but I have lived with 30-06 and 8 MM mauser all my life, not the biggest issue for me with a padded buttstock.
 
What would be the best choice for bench shooting with some hunting as an option, with the idea of doing a sizeable amount of long distance shooting, 300 yards plus?
 
Thanks.

[Catfish]

If the main perpous for the rifle was a back up for a deer gun I would go with the 308. If it is to be more for varment I would go with the 243.

[Val]

Have a look at the 25-06. My 25-06 puts out a 120 grain Nosler Partition at a chronographed muzzle velocity of 3008 fps. I believe it's a great compromise based on the issues you mentioned and will be a good choice for the game you mentioned.

[mannyrock]

Chris,
 
   You are talking about apples and oranges here.  If you want primarily a varmint round that can also handle deer on occasion, then get a .243.  If you want a deer and hog round, that can  occasionally be used on larger varmint, then get the .308.
 
   You mention the concern of the .308 being a thumper.  It is definitely not.  The recoil energy of the .308 is about 10% less than the .30-06, and with a good recoil pad (kickeez, or pachmeyer decelerator), it is a pleasant push, not a hard bang.  If you have no problem with the recoil of a .270, then you will definitely have no issues with the .308.
 
   Although I think the .308 is a great round, since you already have a .270, there would be a huge amount of overlap if you get a .308, at least on game up to 300 pounds or so.
 
  The .243 gives you more flexibilty and less overlap when combined with your .270.   The .243 would give you the capability of shooting 80 and 100 grain bullets, while the .270 picks up the 130 and 150 grain bullets.
 
  I shot a .243 for 5 years, and never found them to be finicky as to accuracy in a standard sporter weight barrel.  They are only finicky if you are using a lightweight barrel, since they heat it up so very quickly.  It is based on the .308 cartridge and is generally very accurate.
 
Regards,
 
Mannyrock
 
 

[guzzijohn]

The .243 is very finiky in my Handi with a bull barrel. In my Savage it is a deadly laser and shoots under 1" with anything from 55 gr through 95 gr. It does heat up barrel quickly however. I think it would be a great caliber for the use you describe.
GuzziJohn

[woodchukhntr]

Since your primary use is bench/varmint shooting, go for the .243.  The .308 is a great round, but you already have a .270 for the heavy stuff.

[huntswithdogs]

I own both the 243 and the 308. 243 is pretty mild recoiling. The 308 has some recoil but your 270 probably equals it, if not surpasses it. The 243 can be loaded with up to a 100gr bullet, while the 308 can go up to a 220 if you so desire. The only thing I have against the 308 is the roar when it goes off. Maybe I'm just getting more noise sensitive as I get older.
Were I you, I'd go with the 243 because you've got the heavier game handled with the 270.

Funny you should mention the flyers with your old 243ADL. My brotherinlaw has an older one and the joke is that he may as well shoot the 4th round up thru the woods, because it's always a flyer, with the 5th going right back thru the ragged hole from the first 3. His ADL will shoot about any 6mm bullet/load combo we've come up with and well. Mine leans more towards bullets weighing more than 80grs.

HWD

[shinjin]

Depends on the deer. In Texas, Louisana you can kill a deer as cleanly with a 243 as a 308. Up North, in the Land of I Told You So, it might require a 308 for the larger bodied deer.
 
If I'm shooting Varmints (Yankees included when they won't stop talking while I'm shooting ) I prefer a 243.
 

[guzzijohn]

Quote from shinjin:
"Depends on the deer. In Texas, Louisana you can kill a deer as cleanly with a 243 as a 308. Up North, in the Land of I Told You So, it might require a 308 for the larger bodied deer."


I do not deer hunt but I know quote a few people that use the .243 on deer here in Kansas. Kansas deer tend to be on the larger side and the hunters seem to do very well with the .243. You want a proper bullet and proper shot placement.
GuzziJohn

[BBF]

Quote from shinjin:
..............
............................ You want a proper bullet and proper shot placement.
GuzziJohn

When all is said and speculated, that is what it boils down to.
 
For the OP
Would you consider something in 6.5mm(.264 cal) ??

[Rock Home Isle]

I am looking at adding a second centerfire scoped rifle.  I have a Mossberg 4 X 4 in .270 Win, and I like the gun, but am looking at some variety.  Focusing on getting a Savage or a Remington 700 in either .243 Win. or .308, each has its advantages and disadvantages. 
 
I mostly bench shoot, but do varmint hunt and want something as an optional deer/hog caliber.  I used to own a Rem. ADL in .243, handloaded for it and it frequently had a flyer for each 5 shot group, I have read from several sources that the .243 is moody about accuracy.  I also used factory loads to see if it was my handloads.  I really liked the lack of recoil though.  Bullets are cheaper than .30 cal.
 
The .308 has the option of using military surplus ammo, is more than enough for most big game and is known to be accurate and user friendly for handloaders.  I have never owned a .308 either, but the idea of a thumping gun in recoil is not my first choice, but I have lived with 30-06 and 8 MM mauser all my life, not the biggest issue for me with a padded buttstock.
 
What would be the best choice for bench shooting with some hunting as an option, with the idea of doing a sizeable amount of long distance shooting, 300 yards plus?
 
Thanks.

I have owned several .243's over the years, and I have never had a finicky .243. Until I read this thread I've never even heard of the .243 being finicky when it comes to accuracy. So that was "news" to me; I must have been lucky.
 
I can say that with either the .243 or the .308, both would be very effective to the 300 yard range. I would reccomend the use of the heavier bullets in the .243.
 
Here is my experience with the longer then normal shooting ranges with both these cartridges: I reload my own ammunition. I use only Winchester cases...I weigh each case & group them, I trim each case (length & turn necks), I weigh each powder charge and I weigh bullets & group them as well. With this approach, I have found that the .243 really starts to die off on average at about 550 to 600 yards or so. I have been able to get very repeatable hits at farther distances, but that level of shooting ability takes a lot of trigger time to obtain and maintain. While the .308 remains accurate out to about 700 or 800 yards. Again, I have gotten 1000+/- yard repeatable hits with the .308, but I had to put in the time to reach and maintain that level of shooting ability.
 
Sorry to say, that I'm not there anymore ( ), but gosh those long distance shots are so much fun to make....  
 
The main thing at the 300 yard distance that you mention will be recoil fatigue...the .243, with its lower recoil should allow you to shoot accurately for more continuous rounds fired before recoil fatigue becomes an issue; and your groups begin to open up to unacceptable levels. This point of fatigue will be different for each shooter....
 
I don't have a .243 anymore, but I do have a nice very accurate .308, and I do notice the recoil fatigue issue.

[Rock Home Isle]

Have a look at the 25-06. My 25-06 puts out a 120 grain Nosler Partition at a chronographed muzzle velocity of 3008 fps. I believe it's a great compromise based on the issues you mentioned and will be a good choice for the game you mentioned.

I used to hunt with a 25-06 and I have an uncle that hunts with nothing but the 25-06... In the Right Hands, its a very effective long range calibre. Personally I think its a bit light for elk, but he has killed many big bulls over the years, so we're back to "In the Right Hands".
 
Great calibre...awesome fun to shoot. 

[mcwoodduck]

You know that old argument about 12ga Vs 20 ga shotgun,
Anything the 20 can do the 12 can do better.
The 308 has more factory loads produced than I thin kthe 270 and 243 combined.  You can go from 125 grain in a reduced recoil to 190 grain
My Remington likes the cheap FMJ ammo and shoots it well.
 

[Rock Home Isle]

You know that old argument about 12ga Vs 20 ga shotgun,
Anything the 20 can do the 12 can do better.
The 308 has more factory loads produced than I thin kthe 270 and 243 combined.  You can go from 125 grain in a reduced recoil to 190 grain
My Remington likes the cheap FMJ ammo and shoots it well.

Very true; I love this logic.
 
One of the main reasons that I own a .308 and I don't own a .243
 
Course...I'll never give up my .270 

[Cheesehead]

If you have a .270, then take the larger leap and get a .223. The .270 will serve all the big game needs. A .223 will have the advantage of low recoil, cheaper surplus ammo and components, lower recoil and could be used for hogs.

Cheese

[2ndtimer]

I think Cheesehead hit the nail on the head.  The .308 is definitely too close to the .270 Win in capability, cost of ammo, muzzle blast and recoil.  If the only choices are between the .308 and the .243 to join the .270 Win in the gun cabinet, go for the .243 Win, as it least it provides some variety, lower recoil, great performance on varmints, still capable of backing up on a deer hunt, but certainly not as appropriate as the .270 for deer.  But if you widen the option to include a .223 Rem in the mix, then you really have a dramatic alternative to the .270.  No recoil to speak of, you can shoot it all day with no ill effects.  If you are shooting at a small target at range from a rest, you can see where your bullet hits (or how high the prairie dog flies).   If you shop around, you can get great deals on factory ammo and not just 55 gr FMJ stuff.  I have picked up 50 round boxes of Fiochhi ammo loaded with Hornady 40 gr V-Max bullets for as little as $16.95 each, plus shipping.  That is the equivalent of about $7 per box of 20.  And some very accurate rifles are readily available either in heavy barrel varmint configuration for reasonable prices (I have the Remington 700 SPS Varmint and the Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Special), Sporter weight, (Savage, Weatherby Vanguard, Remington SPS) or even the AR-15 style, like my S&W M&P 15 Sport.  Now that would be a great alternative to switch off from your .270 Winchester!  You may even find that you enjoy shooting your .223 more than your .270.  It is my favorite cartridge.

[T.R.]

I agree with 2ndTimer.  Go with 243 for targets, varmints, and deer.
 
TR
 
 

[Dave in WV]

My son and I have a 243s. His is a Savage 110 and mine is a Ruger 77 MKII stainless. The accuracy of both are consistant. His is "boring" accurate as he can load about any bullet weight and the load will shoot well. If you have flyers in a group and it's down to the ammo, try seating the bullet deeper 1/4 turn at a time with the seating stem. Keep trying the load until the flyer comes into the group. It works with factory ammo too.

[Bart Solo]

I have been watching this thread for a couple of days.  This isn't even a brainer as far as I am concerned. The 270 and the 308 have very similar capabilities.  If you are going to keep your 270 don't bother with the 308.  The 243 fills a niche below the 270.  You can expand what you really want to do.  It can handle deer and varmints alike. 
 
A few of the more recent posts suggest 223 as an alternative to the 243, but unlike a lot of people, I don't think of the 223 (or the 22-250) as being a humane deer caliber.  It is, however, a great round for everything up to deer size.  It is also cheap to shoot.  You will probably shoot a 223 a lot more than a 243 and extra trigger time can only help develop and maintain all of your shooting skills.

[roper]

I am looking at adding a second centerfire scoped rifle.  I have a Mossberg 4 X 4 in .270 Win, and I like the gun, but am looking at some variety.  Focusing on getting a Savage or a Remington 700 in either .243 Win. or .308, each has its advantages and disadvantages. 
 
I mostly bench shoot, but do varmint hunt and want something as an optional deer/hog caliber.  I used to own a Rem. ADL in .243, handloaded for it and it frequently had a flyer for each 5 shot group, I have read from several sources that the .243 is moody about accuracy.  I also used factory loads to see if it was my handloads.  I really liked the lack of recoil though.  Bullets are cheaper than .30 cal.
 
The .308 has the option of using military surplus ammo, is more than enough for most big game and is known to be accurate and user friendly for handloaders.  I have never owned a .308 either, but the idea of a thumping gun in recoil is not my first choice, but I have lived with 30-06 and 8 MM mauser all my life, not the biggest issue for me with a padded buttstock.
 
What would be the best choice for bench shooting with some hunting as an option, with the idea of doing a sizeable amount of long distance shooting, 300 yards plus?
 
Thanks.

I've got a 243 and 243AI one has Hart other Kreiger barrel and I've been shooting the 243 since 1965.

I look at accuracy first and it's hard to beat the 308 with all the good match bullets and the potential for LR target shooting and it handle the conditions better than a 243.    Both calibers you can use for hunting.

As to the recoil you can get one of these
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/699899/past-super-mag-plus-recoil-pad-shield-ambidextrous

Well good luck

[spitpatch]

+1 with Mannyrock's advice.......308 would overlap. My rem 700 BDL in .243 is a tackdriver, as are most, with a lighter bullet. Better choice for 2nd gun. The surplus ammo would IMHO be the only advantage to the .308. although there not that cheap anymore.

[Savage .250]

Of your 2 choices .......The 243 would fit your plans nicely. IMO.     

[diggler1833]

I am looking at adding a second centerfire scoped rifle.  I have a Mossberg 4 X 4 in .270 Win, and I like the gun, but am looking at some variety.  Focusing on getting a Savage or a Remington 700 in either .243 Win. or .308, each has its advantages and disadvantages. 
 
I mostly bench shoot, but do varmint hunt and want something as an optional deer/hog caliber.  I used to own a Rem. ADL in .243, handloaded for it and it frequently had a flyer for each 5 shot group, I have read from several sources that the .243 is moody about accuracy.  I also used factory loads to see if it was my handloads.  I really liked the lack of recoil though.  Bullets are cheaper than .30 cal.
 
The .308 has the option of using military surplus ammo, is more than enough for most big game and is known to be accurate and user friendly for handloaders.  I have never owned a .308 either, but the idea of a thumping gun in recoil is not my first choice, but I have lived with 30-06 and 8 MM mauser all my life, not the biggest issue for me with a padded buttstock.
 
What would be the best choice for bench shooting with some hunting as an option, with the idea of doing a sizeable amount of long distance shooting, 300 yards plus?
 
Thanks.

I just skimmed through some of the responses, so if I repeated someone else I apologize in advance.  You mention owning a .270, that would cover any deer/hog size game that I've ever come across in North America.  The .308 is what I cut my teeth on in long distance shooting outside of matches in the military.  As time went by, my .308 got rebarreled to a .260 and I haven't looked back.  I was really stuck between the .243 and .260 when it came time to put another tube on my .308.  Ballistically, with a fast twist the .243 will be leaps and bounds ahead of a .308 when shooting the heavy bullets at long range.  The downside is barrel life, as it will be around 1/4-1/3 that of a .308 (2500-3000 rounds generally for the .243 when compared to 6000-9000 for a .308, again generally).
 
If you aren't going to pony up for a custom tube, then the potential BC advantage of the .243 for long range shooting is a moot point.  I have seen plenty of .243s that are wickedly accurate and not finicky at all.  Sounds more like a single gun (or driver) issue to me.  For hogs and deer, the .243 will kill them every time with good shot placement and bullet selection.  If you already have a .270, then why a .308 unless you want to have a lot of calibers or simply just WANT one? 
 
Bench shooting with surplus ammo is plinking IMO.  When I think of bench shooting, I think of trying to obtain small groups, something not normally done with surplus ammo and the firearms that it is used in.
 
I'd run a .243.  Take a look at something like a Remmy 700 SPS Varmint and upgrade the stock when the money becomes available.  With the added weight, and your preference for bench shooting, it should fit the bill rather nicely.

[Rock Home Isle]

There's some great adivice in this thread. 

[fastchicken]

I'd get a 243, not just because I have 2 and love shooting them, but I also have a 270 [and 2 '06s that dont get used] and have had 2 308s. As others have said, I think the 308 is too close to the 270 and that's the reason my '06s dont get used.

[roper]

 If someone own a 308  uses it for target and hunting then he shouldn't  buy a 270 it's too close. OK!

[shinjin]

Rper is right. Except for caliber they are so close it is foolish to have both in your battery. Incidentally, I have BOTH in my battery.
 
The 243 is an nice alrounder cartridge when shooter does his bit. I have never pulled the trigger on a large Mulie or Elk, not for lack of want just critters) but I would not consider my 243 as my pfirst choice. I would not hesitate to use it on Southern Deer and varmints, coyotes, etc., smaller less heavily muscled animals.
 
Either way you go you can rest assured SOMEONE will argue with you, pointing out the highs/lows, pros/cons and rallying to convince you of your foolishness. Best thing to do is out shoot them.

[Rock Home Isle]

Yeah...I remember the days when the .243 was the gun to get a young shooter. A lot of my friends started their hunting careers with the .243. It's a very accurate cartridge. 

[Barstooler]

Chris,
 
Had a similar problem with a new Remington BDL in 243.  Would not group worth a crap after trying everything.  Finally just replaced the barrel and decided to go with a 24 inch #3 (heavier contor) in 243 AI to eliminate the case stretch problems the 243 frequently has. 
 
Sweet shooting little rifle now.
 
Barstooler

[1armoured]

If taking care not to overlap our rifle calibers is what it's all about,
then I'm sure we'd miss out on a lot of fine cartridges in the ammo tin.
Haven't heard anything about fickle .243 loads,
but I have a .308 and have a lot of fun and enjoyment with it,
both with handloads, and the heaps of surplus stuff about.
With a similar cartridge, not a lot of difference in powder usage.
Range of bullet weights for the .308 will be roughly from the top end of the .243 to probably a practical 185gr.
Serious 'plinking', (if there is such a thing), esp offhand, with surplus, esp that bulk loaded for NRA and Palma type target shooting is great.
Bit of trial and error though. Not all surplus shoots 'Minute of Bear' !
Plenty of good Factory rounds available too.
I shoot from 110 V-Max handloads to 185 Lapua Factory, with Sierra 155's and 175's inbetween,
All very accurate off the bench, and at Silhouettes. I've shot out to 500mtrs and 600yds.
and then there's the hunting SP's and solids available. Factory and projectiles.
You can load reasonably mild loads with the 110gr V-Max, and even reduced loads for fun and practice with cast 'boolits'.
Much more versatile than a .243 in my book, and just as accurate.
Here's a nice light, accurate load with the light V-Max shot with the medium profile Sako stainless synthetic .308, a 9lb rifle with scope.
Lots of uses for this nice accurate round, I'm sure.





I also shoot airgun, .22rimfire, .22Hornet and .222Rem.
I'm sure a .243 would be great, but I don't feel any urge to own one.
cheers,
SS