Critical Mass: Whistleblower says who issued 911 hyjacker passports

[TM7]

Oh-oh,,,,,somebody call the plumbers!---there's a leak down in the basement.. ....Whistleblower, Mike Springman,  claims he was forced to issue 911 hyjacker passports in Jeddah, SA.  These would be the passport(s) found in NYC unscathed, where they could not find the FDR black boxes:
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[embed=425,349]http://youtu.be/inuo5rfYAHs[/embed]

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Mike Springman- The former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia blows the whistle on the 9/11 hijackers.

Springman went public (after internal efforts failed) to expose the State Dept/CIA conduiting terrorists into the US

BBC News Source: "former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah is Michael Springman".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm

Thirteen of the 15 Saudi hijackers were issued visas to the United States, 10 of them at the US Consulate in Jeddah, according to US officials.
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/underattack/news/driving_a_wedge/part1.shtml

Officials told to 'back off' on Saudis and Bin Laden before September 11
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/07/afghanistan.september11

CBC News transcript- Michael Springman
"this operation in Jeddah was so peculiar, so strange, and it went against anything I had ever seen or heard in my 20 years in government, that I thought that what these people were telling me about CIA involvement with Osama, and with Afghanistan had to be true because nothing else would fit. By the attempts to cover me up and shut me down, this convinced me more and more that this was not a pipe-dream, this was not a machination, this was not a conspiracy theory."
http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/springmaninterview.htm

BBC News: Michael Springman
In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by high level State Dept officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. These were, essentially, people who had no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to their own country. I complained bitterly at the time there. I returned to the US, I complained to the State Dept here, to the General Accounting Office, to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and to the Inspector General's office. I was met with silence.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm

Michael Springman  Tv 1/4:
CIA Ordered Visas For 15 of The 19 9/11 Hijackers in Jeddah
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmjAg_-Vi9Y

9/11 Citizens' Commission -  Michael Springman
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSebMjd50u0

Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1340698/Israeli-se...

15 Hijackers Obtained Visas in Saudi Arabia
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&conte...

C.I.A. Was Tracking Hijacker Months Earlier Than It Had Said
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/03/us/cia-was-tracking-hijacker-months-earlier...

Hijackers 'trailed by CIA before attacks'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/jun/03/usa.september11

C.I.A. Was Tracking Hijacker Months Earlier Than It Had Said
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/03/us/cia-was-tracking-hijacker-months-earlier...

CIA Didn't Share Info About 9/11 Hijackers
abc news: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129563&page=1#.Tv5tFdWwVM0

Hijackers Lived With FBI Informant
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/attack/main521223.shtml

Sept 9 2001: Bin Laden/Afgan War Plan was on Bush's desk
cbs news: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19tnCIBJtJQ

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
BBC news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm

abc news: The political journal National Review obtained the visa applications for 15 of the 19 hijackers — and evidence that all of them should have been denied entry to the country.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130051&page=1#.Tv59NNWwVM0

CNN: Six months after Sept. 11, hijackers' visa approval letters received http://articles.cnn.com/2002-03-12/us/inv.flight.school.visas_1_huffman-aviat...

Washington Post: Hijackers Got Visas With Little Scrutiny
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&conte...

9/11 commission report: 4 of the hijackers passports were found on 9/11
http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/staff_statement_1.pdf

great sources:
http://visasforterrorists.blogspot.com/

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed secured a visa in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
http://articles.cnn.com/2004-08-22/politics/911.commission_1_final-report-hij...

When Springmann denies a visa, he gets "an almost immediate call from a CIA case officer, hidden in the commercial section [of the consulate], that I should reverse myself and grant these guys a visa."
Source: CBC Archive
 http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpWESSEX/Documents/springmaninterview.htm

Video Source/Credit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgYFo79q1Ek

[BUGEYE]

I think I'll get me a blog and start spreading stuff.
conspiracy folks amaze me with the stuff they will swallow and call it truth.

[Nuke41]

 
That’s 8 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.  I notice how he slips the “my appointment was cancelled” into the middle of his riveting life story, meaning he was canned by the State Department.
 

 
If he indeed actively pursued this matter after 9/11 he would have copies of all the documentation he was following for the false visas, copies of all the protests he filed with DOS, DOJ and other, etc.  Does he have any documentation or is this just the word of a pissed off fired DOS employee?
 

 
BTW, I liked the “Covert Action Quarterly” quote.  I bet that is a riot to read!
 

[BUGEYE]

whistle blowers usually have all their ducks in a row before they say anything.
unless of course they are lying or just stupid.

[Nuke41]

 
You bet whistleblower Springman was fired.....the 'plumbers' had a big leak. Most usually folks terminated suddenly don't have time to round up all their paper work....we will just have to see what paper work he has. 
 
..TM7

 
So he claims he contributed as an unwilling participated in the most traumatic national event since Pearl Harbor and he didn’t bother to keep any documentation, didn’t bring it home for safe keeping, didn’t pass any of it on to the press or the investigators that he mentions trying to interest in his story?

If he had any evidence or credibility at all he wouldn’t have any problem getting attention to his claims.  The fact that he’s left to you tube and fringe conspiracy theory web sites and publications tells us what we need to know about the plausibility of his story.

 

[Nuke41]

[quote author=TM7
Duh!...Maybe Springman would have kept evidence and documentation if he was prophetic enough to realize in advance that he was fasttracking 'terrorists' in to the USA to perform the crime of the century. Or if he forsaw he was going to get canned all of a sudden--you think.
And Are you trying to say the only credible people to believe are only those that support and endorse the Official Conspiracy Theory...?
 
..TM7

 
 
He’s the one making the claims, and he claims he understood at the time how wrong it was for the CIA to be sending these people into the US, and that he protested it and was overturned.  He wouldn’t have known that 9/11 was going to happen or that he might be processing their visas against his wishes, but if his statements are true I would expect him to have kept some evidence to show he was performing his job in a manner he found highly  questionable.  Certainly after 9/11 he would have understood his unwitting role in the crime of the century; he wouldn’t have waited to collect evidence until later or kept the only copies in his desk at work.
 

 

 
I looked him up on the web to see if there was anything else on him, all I found was the same video and a bunch of conspiracy theory fan sites promoting the same video.  I couldn’t find anything else regarding proof of his claims.
 

 

 
If I was tasked to investigate him and analyze his story I’d at least be looking at the following:
 

 
- Was he actually in the position in Saudi at the time he claims, with power to grant visas?
 
- Does he have any proof that he was overturned by the CIA or other embassy personnel as he describes?  That proof could be emails, written memos or direction.  It could also be a signed and dated memo for record (MFR) that he made for himself at the time, if he didn’t have any other hard records.  Use of MFRs is standard procedure in the government to document issues that leave no other documentation.  Him telling coworkers, friends, or family about the incident at or close to the time of occurrence would also be some form of substantiation.
 
- When did he make his claims?  Was it at the time of occurrence or close to it or did they only surface after he was fired by DOS?
 
- I’d look into his termination by DOS.  What was the cause, as everyone laments, it’s difficult to fire government workers without proper cause.  Was his performance superb and then he was suddenly fired after his claims came out or was his firing the result of long term performance issues or serious misconduct?
 
- Lastly, I’d have him recount his story in full detail to me.  Then I’d take a break and afterwards have him come back in and retell it to me backwards and forwards and from the middle, I’d look for any inconsistencies and pick any I found apart.  Complex stories that are false don’t tend to stick together well over many retellings.
 

 
At the end of the day if he has no proof, no substantiation from others and did not make his claims before being fired by DOS I wouldn’t give his claim any credence.
 

 
He claims all FOIA requests on him were denied, you should file a FOIA claim with DOS and DOJ on him and see what you get back, and you might be surprised.  I know you wouldn’t accept a simple YouTube clip from a CIA case officer that Al Qaida was responsible for 9/11, why would you accept his verbal claim that the cabal was responsible instead?
 

 

 

[Nuke41]

None of that goes beyond his already stated claim.  No proof or other substantiation and it’s just a tall tale.
 
Why don’t you do a FOIA on him?  For that matter, have you ever done a FOIA or any original research on your own?  Its allot more fun and interesting than web surfing and cutting and pasting.
 

 

[Nuke41]

Mr. Springman, an attorney, was sworned in on the Bible, when he tetsitfied in front of McKineys 911 hearing...TOTI in my opinion and this will be shoved down the memory hole..
 
...TM7

The unofficial motto of a unit I worked with once was “in God we trust, in all others we verify”.

An 8 minute statement with nothing else provided to back it up, I’m not going to toss my government under the bus over 9/11 based on that.
 

[Nuke41]

OKay...you verify him then!   
..TM7

He's your boy, you are the one promoting his version of events by cutting and pasting his video clip onto this site.  You've been called on it and you lost, what cant you just admit it?
 
 

[Nuke41]

Didn't lose a thing--in fact gained some more information which may be useful down the road a piece, and which puts you on defensive. ...Besides, You're the guy doubting this attorney's sworn testimonyI'm starting to think you got alot to lose in this 911 debacle for some reason.. So you verify him....fast track it, too.....let's see what you got....
 
 
..TM7

 
 
So to summarize:
 
 
 
- Post an unsubstantiated claim via a You Tube clip that has nothing to back it up
 
- Insist the claim should be believed because the person making it swore it was true and because he’s a lawyer, no other proof or substantiation should be required
 
- When challenged on that say it’s the challenger’s problem to prove the claim isn’t true
 
- Make veiled threats and accusations against anyone who challenges your original posting
 
 
 
As far as having something to lose, I indeed do, but not in the conspiracy theory sense you mean.  As Americans we all have allot of lose if all this conspiracy theory nonsense continues to be noise against the real issues and adult conversations of the day.  We have serious issues ahead of us, and trying to frame those against some make believe cabal that secretly runs the entire planet isn’t helpful. 
 
 
 
Case in point, Iran and their nuclear program is a very serious issue that’s coming to a head.  That issue needs to be debated and discussed, so that hopefully the US and the West will deal with it properly.  How TM7 wants to deal with it can be seen on the political forum page; he launches into his usual worldwide Jewish cabal that’s been behind everything and is behind the soon to be cabal engineered war with Iran.  That is useless noise and distracts from any meaningful discussion on an important topic, and we all lose at that rate.
 
 
 
That about wraps that up.
 

[Nuke41]

Springman is the substantiation...he's the guy that was in charge of visa's at Jeddah and he's telling you what happened.....he is the authority, not you....if YOU doubt him or want to cast aspersions...then you verify your claims.

[/size]TM7
 
Be honest, you don’t need any proof when something supports your cabal view of the world, when it doesn’t support your view no amount of proof is enough.  If Springman was anything more than an unsubstantiated claim the 9/11 conspiracy fan boy club would make him the poster child, and after 10 years he’s nothing more than a single You Tube clip.  If you come up with something more on him feel free to post again, otherwise it’s time to find something else to cut and paste.
 
 
 
 
 

[scootrd]

The Sky is falling ..


Conspiracy theorists around every corner.
The oweness is not on others to neither prove nor disprove his allegations ,
The oweness is on him to support his claims and allegations.
I see no factual evidence ever produced not only for this latest wild accusation , but for all the other 9/11 conspiracy ones that came before as well.

[Lost Farmboy]

I think I'll get me a blog and start spreading stuff.
conspiracy folks amaze me with the stuff they will swallow and call it truth.

 
A lot of men in America have been sentenced to death by weaker testimony from less creditable witnesses.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Didn't lose a thing--in fact gained some more information which may be useful down the road a piece, and which puts you on defensive. ...Besides, You're the guy doubting this attorney's sworn testimonyI'm starting to think you got alot to lose in this 911 debacle for some reason.. So you verify him....fast track it, too.....let's see what you got....
 
 
..TM7

 
 
So to summarize:   - Post an unsubstantiated claim via a You Tube clip that has nothing to back it up - Insist the claim should be believed because the person making it swore it was true and because he’s a lawyer, no other proof or substantiation should be required - When challenged on that say it’s the challenger’s problem to prove the claim isn’t true - Make veiled threats and accusations against anyone who challenges your original posting  
 
As far as having something to lose, I indeed do, but not in the conspiracy theory sense you mean.  As Americans we all have allot of lose if all this conspiracy theory nonsense continues to be noise against the real issues and adult conversations of the day.  We have serious issues ahead of us, and trying to frame those against some make believe cabal that secretly runs the entire planet isn’t helpful.  
 
 
 
Case in point, Iran and their nuclear program is a very serious issue that’s coming to a head.  That issue needs to be debated and discussed, so that hopefully the US and the West will deal with it properly.  How TM7 wants to deal with it can be seen on the political forum page; he launches into his usual worldwide Jewish cabal that’s been behind everything and is behind the soon to be cabal engineered war with Iran.  That is useless noise and distracts from any meaningful discussion on an important topic, and we all lose at that rate.
 
 
 
That about wraps that up.

Nuke41 - That's Normal S.O.P. for TiMee, I just finished reading this thread, and I couldn't help laughing, at his posts.  
Whisper something, anything in his ear, about anything, and he'll believe it. 
TiMee never believes he's wrong even when you prove it to him.  One of his favorite tactics is to demand that you provide proof, yet he never proves any of his "theories", nor does he submit any real documentation.  The man would get thrown out of the room in a court of law, better yet, laughed out.  
OSR, consider this your FINAL WARNING. This post is of NO RELEVANCE to the topic and addresses another member and NOT the subject. ONE more post like this and you will be banned from the Conspiracy Theory forums. Dated:12-26-2012 Heather

[OldSchoolRanger]

The Sky is falling ..


Conspiracy theorists around every corner.
The oweness is not on others to neither prove nor disprove his allegations ,
The oweness is on him to support his claims and allegations.
I see no factual evidence ever produced not only for this latest wild accusation , but for all the other 9/11 conspiracy ones that came before as well.

scootrf - Loved it, just loved it.

[Nuke41]

There is enough prima facie evidence to proceed with a full investigation at this juncture; and to ferret out the VERIFICATION Nuke is looking for. Truth does not fear any investigation....
 
...TM7

I think you have a misunderstanding of legal process and what constitutes evidence.  I don’t know if Springman had the position he claims, let’s assume that he’s correct and it’s a substantiated fact.  It’s also a fact that the visa process was shoddy, the 9/11 Commission and DOS acknowledged as much after 9/11 and made major changes to visa processes.  Beyond that all that exists is Springman’s unsubstantiated claim of conspiracy, and 10 years after the event nothing seems to exist to back up his claim.  That doesn’t even meet the standard of prima facie because the matter is clearly not self-evident from the facts and claim as he presents them.
 
 
 
We’ve beaten the proof issue to death, it doesn’t exist.  Beyond that is the bigger issue; as with so much of the 9/11 truther material, his claim simply doesn’t make any sense.  If the CIA wanted visas for the 9/11 hijackers why would they go to the stalwart DOS employee Springman to force him against his will to do them?  Why wouldn’t the CIA simply have their technical services people produce the visas themselves and leave Springman out of it?  The CIA after all would be capable of producing 100% authentic passports and visas for any country in the world, why not just produce the visas themselves?  And if they did force Springman why didn’t they kill him after he started to complain?  After all, a Jewish cabal capable of killing thousands wouldn’t hesitate to eliminate a single problematic person like Springman if he threatened to expose them, right?
 

[scootrd]

Excerpt from Transcript

CBC: Do you have any evidence, any paperwork from all of these years that might go towards supporting all of this?

Springman: Regrettably not. I had something at some point. My predecessor in Jeddah had begun a file of people with peculiar attributes who got had got visas. I kept it up, I added to it. I learned later on after I had left, that this file had been mysteriously been shredded. - LEARNED FROM WHO? SHREDDED BY WHO ? WHO CAN VOUCH THE FILE EVER EXISTED TO BACK UP YOUR WILD CLAIMS. OWHOOO MYSTERIOUSLY .

CBC: But you complained, and you complained and you complained, but what eventually happened to you?

Springman: My appointment in the State Department was terminated, and I was never given a coherent statement why. NOW HERE IS YOUR TRUTH. YOUR A WING NUT CONSPIRACY THEORIST AND AFTER COMPLAINING OVER AND OVER AGAIN ABOUT NONSENSE THEY FIRED YOU CAUSE YOUR A NUT. AND NOW YOUR MAD.

CBC: You will above all will appreciate that conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen these days with regard to September 11th, what makes yours different or any more credible than the others?

Springman: I have floated around the international affairs community for the past 20 years. I was in the middle of this in Jeddah; I knew people in the foreign service, I knew people out of it, I knew people in the CIA. I had at one time great respect for the CIA, but this operation in Jeddah was so peculiar, so strange, and it went against anything I had ever seen or heard in my 20 years in government, that I thought that what these people were telling me about CIA involvement with Osama, and with Afghanistan had to be true because nothing else would fit. By the attempts to cover me up and shut me down, this convinced me more and more that this was not a pipe-dream, this was not a machination, this was not a conspiracy theory. - USING CONJECTURE NO BASIS IN FACTS DRAWS HIS OWN CONCLUSIONS TO TRY AND SUPPORT DELUDED CONSPIRACIES WHERE NONE EXIST CAUSE IN HIS MIND IT JUST HAD TO BE TRUE.

CBC: But when you take the events of 1987, when visas were being issued to people unqualified for them (so he says they were unqualified), and suggest that happened again to the same people responsible for the attacks in New York and Washington: that's a quantum leap. How do you justify that?

Springman: For all I know, and for all we know, this might not have been the intended consequence. It could have been a mistake, it could have been a misjudgment. Or for all that we know, it could have been an effort to get the US directly involved in some fashion. I mean it's only a few thousand dead, and what's this against the greater gain in the Middle East. -  NOW HE STARTS DOWN HIS OWN THEORIST PATH WITH NO EVIDENCE, WHAT A NUT JOB.

and this is the icing on the cake ////
CBC: But you're quite sure that Mohammed Atta and others had their visas issued in Jeddah?

Springman: This is what I was told by reading an article in the Los Angeles Times. - I READ IT IN THE TIMES


-  Disgruntled employee
He got canned cause he is a wingnut like most other conspiracy nuts, now upset he tries to equate what he calls 1987 VISA abnormalities to 9/11 IN 2001 with no factual evidence nor mystery files.- Give it a rest

[scootrd]

and how is what you posted in full context any different than the highlighted points I posted?

 No proof (mysteriously shredded spook files so he was told ), got canned (that a fact), tries to equate possible visa issues in 1987 (he calls inconsistencies but yet no factual basis, or anyone coming forward to support his claim) with 2011 and ties it all together in a nice little bow stating , with regards to Aatta ...that is what I read in the Times.

what a joke.

Where have I heard similar conspiracies  ... oh yeah I remember now  ... oh wait , then again, we all know how well that one worked out as well.

 Nope no WMD in this closet, hmmm , maybe here ... nope no WMD under that bed. Oh well.

Cluck ...cluck...cluck..  darn acorns falling from trees.

[Nuke41]

BTW, The anti-semite zingers do detract from your credibilty, because since when does searching and finding out the truth become anti-semitic.. Are you some jewish guy that is uncomfortable with 911 fact and truth investigations; because you shouldn't be--afterall the facts and truth would merely support the Official Conspiracy Theory--isn't that right?
TM7

On the Jewish issue, you raised it so let’s explore that.  No I’m not Jewish and I don’t agree with everything Israel does.  You on the other hand have stated on this forum that you believe every major world event over the last 200 years has been engineered by some shadowy Jewish led cabal, if that’s not what you believe then please say otherwise.  Your track record on posts is consistent; the US government and Israel are always evil and the Muslims and their countries are always poor misunderstood people that aren’t responsible for the evil attributed to them.  At this point maybe it’s more reasonable to wonder if you’re someone who works for CAIR or lives in an Islamic country?
 

[OldSchoolRanger]

Nuke41 - That's Normal S.O.P. for TiMee, I just finished reading this thread, and I couldn't help laughing, at his posts.  
Whisper something, anything in his ear, about anything, and he'll believe it. 
TiMee never believes he's wrong even when you prove it to him.  One of his favorite tactics is to demand that you provide proof, yet he never proves any of his "theories", nor does he submit any real documentation.  The man would get thrown out of the room in a court of law, better yet, laughed out.  

OSR...I'm going to take your post #23 as another personal attack.
...TM7

TiMee- Your quite wrong, I wasn't attacking you.  I posted my opinion, and the fact that some of your comments made me laugh.  The part about your tactics is quite true, all anyone would have to do, is research the way you respond to any posts questioning your "theories or fact".  Now regarding your documentation, "you tube video's from "experts" don't constitute evidence, in a court of law, and would get you thrown out.  Sorry about that, but "dose are dee facts".

BTW, just want to bring up something you posted a while back:
Posted 1/13/12 - 7:49AM - Today's News - This Is Not Right..The War Crime Culture" by TM7

"Treating you in like and kind with humor........guess you don't like it when it comes back to you. Means of adressing you was in hope of having you remove institutional blinders for a moment. But Nevermind,,,,,and there is no muckracking here as you tried to inject...just a report...please discern the difference.  Thanx."

Again, not attacking you, just enjoying the content, and a chuckle.  Have a nice day!
(Irrelevant Post Example #2) OSR, consider this your FINAL WARNING. This post is of NO RELEVANCE to the topic and addresses another member and NOT the subject. ONE more post like this and you will be banned from the Conspiracy Theory forums. Dated:12-26-2012 Heather

[OldSchoolRanger]

Your full of it OSR and full of yourself....your first post on this thread was a personal attack, no more no less, you weren't even involved with the discussion.,,,,its the only way OSR can roll when somebody challenges his views or scandalous rational scheme of things....just your true nature....LOL
 
..TM7

Now that's what a personal attack looks like.

As I stated, I did get a good belly laugh out of the posts on this thread.  If your that sensitive, I can't help it.  As you stated, I wasn't involved in the discussion.  You didn't challenge any of my views or "my" scandalous rational scheme of things.  So why would I attack you?  I don't get upset when you post your two cents about my comments, so why do you?
 
I guess you forgot, that your the one that posted, and I'm quoting you; "Treating you in like and kind with humor........guess you don't like it when it comes back to you. Means of adressing you was in hope of having you remove institutional blinders for a moment. But Nevermind,,,,,and there is no muckracking here as you tried to inject...just a report...please discern the difference.  Thanx."
I was just trying to add a little more levity to a funny discussion, as I stated previously:
Again, not attacking you, just enjoying the content, and a chuckle.  Have a nice day!

So please play nice. Thanks again.

This thread is not for humor, although I think we do still have a section for that somewhere. This is a place for thoughtful debates on serious topics. If you can't stay on topic and quit addressing other members personally then you will not be allowed to post anymore. Heather