Author Topic: KY judge sends Amish men to jail for not paying fines. (Read 870 times)

powderman · « **on:** January 12, 2012, 09:40:29 AM »

Judge sends Kentucky Amish men to jail over fines

gavel WHAS11.com Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:38 PM MAYFIELD, Ky. (AP) -- A judge in western Kentucky jailed a group of Amish men Thursday for refusing to mark their horse-drawn buggies with reflective triangles for traffic safety.

The men belong to a conservative Amish group that believes the orange signs are flashy and conflict with their pledge to live low-key and religious lives.

Ananias Byler, the first of 10 Amish men due in Graves County District Court on Thursday, was sentenced to 10 days in jail for not paying $489 in fines.

"I totally understand your objection," District Judge Deborah Crooks told Byler. "But you're in violation, and it's not up to me to change the law. It doesn't really matter what I think about any of this."

The men belong to a conservative breakaway group of Amish known as Swartzentruber. They live simply, with no electricity, plumbing or appliances. They have been running afoul of the law in recent years for refusing to use the triangles on their buggies, and some were sent to jail last year.

One of the men, Jacob Gingerich, said the men will continue to refuse to pay the fines.

"We're just not going to pay," Gingerich, a farmer with 12 children, said before the court appearance.

Gingerich and two other Amish men have sued over the state highway law, saying it infringes on their religious freedom. The Kentucky Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case later this year after the state appeals court rejected the Amish men's argument.

Gingerich said Thursday that he wished the judge would have waited for the state Supreme Court to hear the case before throwing the men in jail.

Kentucky lawmakers are considering changes to the highway law to allow the Amish to use gray reflective tape instead of the orange triangles.
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This has been going on for several years in several areas of Kentucky. POWDERMAN.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:46:59 AM »

Most if not all of the Amish in our area use the triangles. At least once a year however there seems to be a buggy/car accident and usually one or more of the Amish are killed. A major four lane goes through the Amish area with many access roads. It is a dangerous situation.
GuzziJohn

powderman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2012, 10:53:44 AM »

Lives are lost several xs a year here mostly by folks not paying attention and hitting them. The Amish are some wonderful folks but I've never seen anything in the Bible that would prohibit them from using the orange triangles to better make their presence known. We drove hwy 60 one afternoon and passed 7 families in their buggies apparently heading home from or going to Church. There are several areas accross the state where they are making a stand NOT to use those signs. POWDERMAN.

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:22:43 AM »

IT depends on what their Bishop tells them. I know of some who don't use rubber tires on anything because the devil is in the air. Another Bishop said that modern farm practices are the work of the devil. Since they believe everything is God's will, they don't have much to worry about.

oldandslow · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2012, 12:08:21 PM »

I am all for freedom of religion but this is just stupid. They consider the signs flashy but don't mind endangering themselves and the rest of the public.

Why should everyone have to put up with these people being a danger to anyone driving where they insist on driving their buggies with no markings at all. Drivers have to have tail lights and brakes lights. What makes the people think they are special and everyone else should have to watch out for them. Obey the same driving laws that everyone else has to live by or stay off the road.

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2012, 01:31:45 PM »

Not to mention- if someone hits a buggy and kills someone- the driver's life of the vehicle has been changed forever. The Amish are given alot of leeway. I know of an Amish business that was burning treated lumber for heat. The smoke was blowing toward a public middle school. The fumes were easily smelled inside the school, yet no one in the environmental protection agency wanted to do anything because they were Amish.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:46:49 PM »

The public needs to be protected from the dangerous maniacs. Hitting a black buggy at night because it is invisible is a potentially lethal hazard to innocent motorists. Sure the buggy is destroyed, the occupants killed, and the horses at least crippled, but it was the Amish choice to be in harms way. no mercy for the foolish.

Ron/Pa. · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2012, 04:29:50 PM »

Here, in my area of Pa., there are a lot of Coal trucks on the Road. They don`t go slow, time is Money. Very scary to see them bearing down on an amish buggy full of Kids. Most of the Amish will move over and let you pass. But, there are the ones that will not and there have been a number of confrontations.Guess it is just another part of life you have to put up with.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2012, 01:41:38 AM »

Here in northern ny it all depends,if it's something they don't want to do they say it's against their religion but if it's something they want to do it's ok to do it.

bobg · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2012, 01:52:36 AM »

You sure have that right DANNY-L. I have noticed the same thing here in WNY.

powderman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2012, 08:21:48 AM »

Amish to make buggy case to Ky. Supreme Court

gavel by Associated Press WHAS11.com Posted on January 13, 2012 at 1:05 PM LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) -- A group of Amish men is asking the Kentucky Supreme Court to allow them to sidestep a state requirement that they use orange highway signs on their horse-drawn buggies.
Some of the men have been jailed in western Kentucky for refusing to pay fines for violating the slow-moving vehicle law. The Amish men say the bright orange signs conflict with their religious beliefs to live a plain life, free of flashy colors.
William Sharp, an attorney with the Kentucky American Civil Liberties Union, filed a brief laying out arguments by the men on Thursday. The Kentucky Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case but has not set a date.
Ten Amish men were ordered to jail Thursday in Graves County, with sentences from three to 13 days.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2012, 08:58:50 AM »

If they don't want to obey the law stay off the road.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2012, 09:09:37 AM »

Those Amish buggies have advanced since the last time I saw one...

http://amishamerica.com/hot-rod-buggy/

BBF · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2012, 08:50:15 AM »

Yep, another group that wants special privileges, well why not give it to the Muslims and up here the Sikhs as well. Just expand "Gott mit uns".

williamlayton · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2012, 02:41:29 PM »

There are many groups of Mennonites from ultra conservative to fairly liberal and progressive.
A number of years ago there was a movement in one of the more progressive groups to allow cars--they had starting using electricity for milking and water pumps and I guess this was the next step.
Anywho---there were some things that the leadership objected to and one was all the chrome on the cars---thought this was to flashy, but they allowed the cars if all the chrome was painted black. They were known as the Black Bumper Minnonights.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2012, 08:50:23 AM »

William in Va. Mennonites have cars and trucks , elec. in the barn where the TV is. Of course they get black walled tires and no shiney wheels ( no kidding).

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2012, 10:49:25 AM »

It all depends on which church they attend. Any where from buggies to flashy hot cars and no prayer covers. Their religion is no different than others where they run from extremely fundamental to more liberal. I have alot of both Amish and Mennonites where I live. I have a good friend who is Mennonite. You would never know his family was Mennonite. They attend a very progressive church. Religious freedom is one thing- endangering the lives of others is quite another.

woodchuckssuck · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2012, 07:39:24 AM »

I see people saying how Amish buggies are dangerous and all...

Now wait just a second. If your driving along and can't see an Amish buggy in time to slow down or avoid it, you driving too fast for the conditions, or just plain driving recklessly. Especially since most people living in Amish country KNOW they are around.

But, they did break the law. They have to pay the consequences!

guzzijohn · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2012, 09:18:43 AM »

Quote from woodchuckssuck:
"Now wait just a second. If your driving along and can't see an Amish buggy in time to slow down or avoid it, you driving too fast for the conditions, or just plain driving recklessly. Especially since most people living in Amish country KNOW they are around. "

Ever tried to see a black buggy on a dark night on the shoulder of a four lane highway with a 70mph speed limit? Either by lack of seeing or lack of controlling the horse they have been known to cross in front of cars. West of Wichita, KS is a large Amish community with a four lane going through the heart of it. I also fly sailplanes out of an old military base there and part of our landing checklist is to look for Amish crossing the runway, which they will do. Anything that makes the buggy more visible is good.
GuzziJohn

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2012, 12:12:21 PM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on January 24, 2012, 09:18:43 AM

Quote from woodchuckssuck:
"Now wait just a second. If your driving along and can't see an Amish buggy in time to slow down or avoid it, you driving too fast for the conditions, or just plain driving recklessly. Especially since most people living in Amish country KNOW they are around. "

Ever tried to see a black buggy on a dark night on the shoulder of a four lane highway with a 70mph speed limit? Either by lack of seeing or lack of controlling the horse they have been known to cross in front of cars. West of Wichita, KS is a large Amish community with a four lane going through the heart of it. I also fly sailplanes out of an old military base there and part of our landing checklist is to look for Amish crossing the runway, which they will do. Anything that makes the buggy more visible is good.
GuzziJohn

I agree with Guzzi. Buggies blend in very well with a dark road on a dark night. Add rain and fog and you have an accident ready to happen. The Amish buggies in my area not only have a red reflector triangle. They also have headlights and tail lights. They are battery operated.

keith44 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2012, 12:56:48 PM »

Around my town of Sebree we have some very progressive Mennonites. They drive black Ford trucks, and mini-vans. They carry cell phones, and use debit cards at the local stores. I enjoy having these as neighbors, very kind and mild mannered people. They even pay all the same taxes you and I do. Now the Amish down around Matoon, that drive buggies, and refuse to use any modern convienances, other than paved roads, do not pay road tax, school tax, or any other tax outside of property taxes. That should mean that they are ot allowed on any public roadway, but instead everyone wants to pity them for not having the freedom to be stupid.

I say pay the road usage taxes and obey the laws like everyone else, or stay off the roads!! You do not allow bicycles on a highway, why on earth should a black horse drawn buggy be allowed

oldandslow · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2012, 01:35:45 PM »

Lots of Mennonites just over in Texas. They come over here to shop and you can't tell the men from anyone else. The women stick out like a sore thumb. If I were a Mennonite woman there would be some big changes in the dress code. I would get to dress like every other woman around or the husband could get out the overalls and black hat. No, not going to do that? Well, you ain't going to be doing something else either.

They drive vehicles just like everyone else does and I have seen a very few of the young girls (teenagers) dress like other young girls do. I have nothing against them at all.