Author Topic: Freakin' IDJITS!  (Read 3746 times)

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Offline subdjoe

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Freakin' IDJITS!
« on: January 12, 2012, 12:40:25 PM »
They just handed the Taliban a heap of propaganda to use against us.

Stupid, stupid, STUPID thing to do.  I can (almost) understand the urge to do it, but stupid to actually give in to that urge.

And even stupider to film it.

And even more stupider to post it ANYWHERE!

These guys must know that ANYTHING that gets posted ANYWHERE will be seen by someone who will expose it. 

They need to spend a long time digging latrines with a spoon.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline nessmuk101

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 01:36:15 PM »
I agree.  If you are going to do it, don't film it.

Offline bulletstuffer

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 01:59:18 PM »
The thing about this incident that aggravated me the most was the soldiers were presumed guilty.  Maybe they did do it.   I did not see the photo but the word alleged was never used on the news. 
They catch someone in the act of raping a child or woman, someone robbing a bank, a murderer caught in the act and the degenerates are stated in the news as the alleged perpetrator.   You get the picture.
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 02:27:22 PM »
The thing about this incident that aggravated me the most was the soldiers were presumed guilty.  Maybe they did do it.   I did not see the photo but the word alleged was never used on the news. 
They catch someone in the act of raping a child or woman, someone robbing a bank, a murderer caught in the act and the degenerates are stated in the news as the alleged perpetrator.   You get the picture.
Bulletstuffer


The first paragraph:
Quote
The top commanders of the Marine Corps U.S. forces in Afghanistan are investigating a video that purports to show U.S. Marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban after Defense Secretary Leon Panetta ordered a probe into behavior he described is "utterly deplorable."


The third paragraph:
Quote
Spokesman Jay Carney said that as a legal matter, the White House won't pass judgment until the details are discovered, but that the "apparent" activity is deplorable and regrettable.



The eighth and ninth paragraphs:

Quote
Wednesday, the Marine Corps released a statement saying it had been made aware of the video and had not yet verified its origin or authenticity, but the actions portrayed in it were inconsistent with the corps' values and "not indicative of the character of the Marines in our Corps."

On Thursday, Marines Corps Commandant James F. Amos said he viewed the video "apparently" showing Marines "desecrating" the bodies of several dead Taliban in Afghanistan and had requested the Naval Criminal Investigative Service "pull together a team of their very best agents" to investigate "every aspect of the filmed event."


The thirteenth paragraph:

Quote
John Ullyot, a former Marine who served as a Republican spokesman on the Senate Armed Services Committee during the Abu Ghraib scandal, said the alleged incident raises questions about the training lapses and lack of supervision that allowed it to happen.

Plenty of wording to indicate that it is not yet proved. 

But even if they didn't actually urinate on corpses, but just play acted it, it is STILL STUPID.   If you go to youtube and enter Marines Urinate in the search box you can find the video and make your own decision.  Whoever made, and then posted the video, or sent it to someone who then posted it, just gave the Taliban a huge propaganda and recruiting tool.

Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 04:09:10 AM »
I'm not condoning what was allegedly done.  But what is this, compared to some of the atrocities done to the bodies of US civilians and servicemen by the muslim taliban.

I personally don't believe the taliban are entitled to the protection of the Geneva conventions, since
they aren't members of a uniformed military, engaged in warfare against another nation.  They are  simply, bandits who in earlier times would be hung after a being captured.

You can't play fair, if the enemy won't.  A case in point, the only reason the Nazi's didn't execute Jewish- American POW's in WW2, was because the we told them in no uncertain terms that we would retaliate in kind (execute German POW's), if they did so.  Just a little historical reference for all those bleeding hearts.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 04:51:51 AM »
No one has the right to make a negative comment on the actions of these Marines unless he has been in battle.  Combat is not a game among friends, that's why the other side is called "the enemy" and it is the job of line personnel to kill them.
 
To do so without hesitation or remorse requires a change in most individuals psychological makeup.  This change cannot help but effect ones viewpoint on many things.  Urinating on an enemy corpse is no more important then nailing a unit patch to a forehead, stuffing an ace of spades in a mouth or cutting off an ear.  Screw 'em, they are (were) the enemy and they are DEAD!
 
If this is an inevitable attitude of large unit line Troopers, imagine what a person who is trained to methodically kill other people, not in the heat of battle, but kill people who are unaware that they are in any danger.  These "targets" must be dehumanized for him to be completely effective.  Even the Nazis dehumanized the Jews...
 
The high level military officials who feign outrage are pandering to the politicians because the flag ranks are just that, politicians.
 
The politicians have no right to pass judgement or even speak of it at all.  The are interested in only one thing, their political career.  And for H. Clinton to stand there and harp on this "desecration," as she put it, well let me just say I would piss on her even if she wasn't dead.
 
My one serious post for 2012 is now complete.
Richard
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 05:09:37 AM »
No one has the right to make a negative comment on the actions of these Marines unless he has been in battle.  Combat is not a game among friends, that's why the other side is called "the enemy" and it is the job of line personnel to kill them.
 
To do so without hesitation or remorse requires a change in most individuals psychological makeup.  This change cannot help but effect ones viewpoint on many things.  Urinating on an enemy corpse is no more important then nailing a unit patch to a forehead, stuffing an ace of spades in a mouth or cutting off an ear.  Screw 'em, they are (were) the enemy and they are DEAD!
 
If this is an inevitable attitude of large unit line Troopers, imagine what a person who is trained to methodically kill other people, not in the heat of battle, but kill people who are unaware that they are in any danger.  These "targets" must be dehumanized for him to be completely effective.  Even the Nazis dehumanized the Jews...
 
The high level military officials who feign outrage are pandering to the politicians because the flag ranks are just that, politicians.
 
The politicians have no right to pass judgement or even speak of it at all.  The are interested in only one thing, their political career.  And for H. Clinton to stand there and harp on this "desecration," as she put it, well let me just say I would piss on her even if she wasn't dead. My one serious post for 2012 is now complete.

One of the most sensible posts here.  And a good one it is!
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 05:11:27 AM »
Guess its Ok to kill them anyway you can,,,,just don't piss on their bodies....!  This one is likely to go down the memory hole quite fast...and is just to pick another fight.
 
...OSR....you got any links on jihaddi descration of American bodies....and not talking about the imolation of 'contractors' on bridge in Fallujah by angry crowd...?? of which the Families are suing the American govrnment.
 
..TM7
 
..TM7
And your point is that this doesn't count? Now why would that be??
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 05:49:45 AM »
I'm not real upset about what the video seems to show them doing.  I'm sure it isn't the first time something like this has happened, and pretty sure it won't be the last.

My point in starting this thread was to point out how freakin' STUPID it was to do it in front of a camera, and then to post or send the video to someone.    These guys grew up with the internet, they should have known it would get picked up and circulated, and what would happen when it did.  As one guy, retired Master Sergeant I think, commented on another forum "If you are going to do something stupid or against regs, DON'T record it!  Senior non-coms can hide mistakes, but even they can't hide stupid."
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline lakota

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 07:21:43 AM »
No one has the right to make a negative comment on the actions of these Marines unless he has been in battle.  Combat is not a game among friends, that's why the other side is called "the enemy" and it is the job of line personnel to kill them.
 
To do so without hesitation or remorse requires a change in most individuals psychological makeup.  This change cannot help but effect ones viewpoint on many things.  Urinating on an enemy corpse is no more important then nailing a unit patch to a forehead, stuffing an ace of spades in a mouth or cutting off an ear.  Screw 'em, they are (were) the enemy and they are DEAD!
 
If this is an inevitable attitude of large unit line Troopers, imagine what a person who is trained to methodically kill other people, not in the heat of battle, but kill people who are unaware that they are in any danger.  These "targets" must be dehumanized for him to be completely effective.  Even the Nazis dehumanized the Jews...
 
The high level military officials who feign outrage are pandering to the politicians because the flag ranks are just that, politicians.
 
The politicians have no right to pass judgement or even speak of it at all.  The are interested in only one thing, their political career.  And for H. Clinton to stand there and harp on this "desecration," as she put it, well let me just say I would piss on her even if she wasn't dead.
 
My one serious post for 2012 is now complete.

My thoughts exactly. I cant say what therse Marines did was either right nor wrong. I havent earned the right to pass judgement on them or other men like them  as I have never been in combat. I dont know what it is like to have kill or be killed or to walk around with the constant fear of death or worse yet being captured alive by one of these savages so they can make another propaganda torture video or to watch as friends are blown up by roadside bombs that are planted by cowards. No I dont have the right to judge or use harsh words against them and niether does Hitlery Klinton.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline scotsman

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 10:15:47 AM »
Well said ATLaw. War is death, suffering, and destuction for EVERYONE on the front lines. Soldiers sure as hell do worse things than piss on the dead. This looks to me like something staged for buddies back at a base. Genitals cut off and placed in the mouth for the enemy to find happens, heads on a stick in the wire happens. Those that think war is practiced nicely have little understanding of what war is.

Offline magooch

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 02:35:36 PM »
Number one, I agree with AtiLaw and number two, those Marines should be chewed out for not going number two on the same dung heaps that they are accused of doing number one on.
 
The critics would really freak if they knew what some of the guys did over in Nam.
 
War is not for the indignant and self righteous--they don't have to like it; just stay the hell out of the way.
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Offline Hooker

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 04:09:17 PM »
Ten years at war with an enemy that has no country.
Ten years of fighting with no end in sight or final objective.
Ten years of battle in a land where the only difference between the enemy and friendlies is that on some days the friendlies are not shooting at you.
And we're suppose to give a rats butt when some soldiers let off some frustration by pissing on some maggot food.
I grew up surrounded by veterans from 4 different wars most of them trying to forget the things they saw and did in those wars.
The price our soldiers pay dosn't end they keep paying even when the war is over an the shooting stops.
So if they want to take a few scalps along the way or snap few pictures of their trophies let them.
And all the goody 2 shoes, PC pukes, and politicians can kiss their back sides.

Pat
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Offline buckeye509

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 04:27:52 PM »
They are US Marines, in a combat zone. I don't care what they do or who they do it too, as long as they come home alive and intact. The He** with PC, the He** with trying to win the hearts and minds of these Godless people in Afghanistan or wherever stan and the He** with apologizing.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 04:43:35 PM »

Just give us some links to our guy's bodies being desecrated--OK--can you do that or not?...The case on the bridge seems to have been an angry mob of iraqui kids who were incensed...not nice, but they weren't professional Taliban or jihaddis as are our mercs of RA, marines...just a crowd and the victim's families are suing the governmnet for causing this whole deal to happen. Of course, this happened just before the Fallujah deal went down.
Just give the links you have about your stated opinion...?
~~~
 
...TM7
TM - Do you really want to do this?  It's too easy.  All you have to do is type: "Taliban atrocities" in the goggle search bar. 
There are even photos of the grisly kind that you seem to be looking for.  I for one refuse to rise to your bait, to post a link for your pleasure to those graphic photos of the taliban cutting off Danial Pearl, the reporters head while he was alive. Then there are graphic photos of the taliban hanging their own people from goal posts in a soccer stadium in Kabul, executing fellow taliban who wanted to surrender, execution of woman for being raped, Shias/Turi tribesmen brutally beheaded and mutilated (6/19/08), cutting off the nose & ears of women. 
Please get your head out of the sand.  As far as our troops urinating on dead taliban, I stated this doesn't compare to atrocities committed by the taliban.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 07:36:16 AM »

Just give us some links to our guy's bodies being desecrated--OK--can you do that or not?...The case on the bridge seems to have been an angry mob of iraqui kids who were incensed...not nice, but they weren't professional Taliban or jihaddis as are our mercs of RA, marines...just a crowd and the victim's families are suing the governmnet for causing this whole deal to happen. Of course, this happened just before the Fallujah deal went down.
Just give the links you have about your stated opinion...?
...TM7
TM - Do you really want to do this?  It's too easy.  All you have to do is type: "Taliban atrocities" in the goggle search bar. 
There are even photos of the grisly kind that you seem to be looking for.  I for one refuse to rise to your bait, to post a link for your pleasure to those graphic photos of the taliban cutting off Danial Pearl, the reporters head while he was alive. Then there are graphic photos of the taliban hanging their own people from goal posts in a soccer stadium in Kabul, executing fellow taliban who wanted to surrender, execution of woman for being raped, Shias/Turi tribesmen brutally beheaded and mutilated (6/19/08), cutting off the nose & ears of women. 
Please get your head out of the sand.  As far as our troops urinating on dead taliban, I stated this doesn't compare to atrocities committed by the taliban.
"You brought it up, not me.....now you're deflecting again....You said the Taliban/Jihaddis descreted our dead guys....I didn't know that so I asked for a few links according to your supposition/opinion....Now you're talking about stuff they reportedly do within their own culture.
 
Big difference here,,,if you get it or just want to troll....in this thread we're talking about what our guys did to dead enemy fighters. My contention is "what the heck"...its okay to kill them anyway you can, but peeing on there bodies is a no-no.  You obviously don't perceive a huge disconnect here--but I do.
 .....TM7"

So am I correct assuming that if taliban/jihaddis incite a mob of "iraqui kids", and they mutilate the bodies of US personnel, because they were in your words: "an angry mob...who were incensed" it was only "not nice", because they "they weren't professional Taliban or jihaddis "?

Do you really believe that there is such a thing as "professional Taliban or jihaddis "?  All taliban or jihadi's are part time farmer/herder and part time terrorists.

I guess it's also safe to assume that you don't believe that cutting off Daniel Pearls head with a dull blade while he was alive is an atrocity?  I guess you also going to tell me that Daniel Pearl wasn't an American because he's ______?  You can fill in the blank.

As far as trolling, I have to say moi?  Try some one else on this thread.  I won't say whom :-X , but, I'm sure you know him. ::) ::)
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2012, 09:18:03 AM »
I personally don't believe the taliban are entitled to the protection of the Geneva conventions, since they aren't members of a uniformed military, engaged in warfare against another nation.
Bravely said. If you're in a backward country and the military of the largest power IN THE WORLD invades you, will you put on uniforms to make yourself identifiable and fight fair? In the face of the world's largest airforce? That's just silly. I understand saying, but it's silly.
Quote
You can't play fair, if the enemy won't.
How is it that people occupied by a foreign army fight fair? I'm looking forward to hearing this...
No one has the right to make a negative comment on the actions of these Marines unless he has been in battle. 
I understand your sentiment and respect where it comes from, but I disagree... just like I would if someone were to tell me that only cops are qualified to have firearms, and only concert pianists can play piano, or that a politician can only be judged by a fellow politician.


I might pee on the enemy after battle. But if I'm going to do that, I'm going to lose any moral ground to complain when they do likewise. But then, I've long since been cured of that wacky idea that Americans are better than other peoples.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline osokusmc

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2012, 02:29:52 PM »
No one has the right to make a negative comment on the actions of these Marines unless he has been in battle.  Combat is not a game among friends, that's why the other side is called "the enemy" and it is the job of line personnel to kill them.
 
To do so without hesitation or remorse requires a change in most individuals psychological makeup.  This change cannot help but effect ones viewpoint on many things.  Urinating on an enemy corpse is no more important then nailing a unit patch to a forehead, stuffing an ace of spades in a mouth or cutting off an ear.  Screw 'em, they are (were) the enemy and they are DEAD!
 
If this is an inevitable attitude of large unit line Troopers, imagine what a person who is trained to methodically kill other people, not in the heat of battle, but kill people who are unaware that they are in any danger.  These "targets" must be dehumanized for him to be completely effective.  Even the Nazis dehumanized the Jews...
 
The high level military officials who feign outrage are pandering to the politicians because the flag ranks are just that, politicians.
 
The politicians have no right to pass judgement or even speak of it at all.  The are interested in only one thing, their political career.  And for H. Clinton to stand there and harp on this "desecration," as she put it, well let me just say I would piss on her even if she wasn't dead.
 
My one serious post for 2012 is now complete.


I generally agree and would add, in reference to this act stirring up the enemy, the Marines in question probably would look on riled up enemy as a good thing.  Average people may be afraid of pissed off taliban, but Warriors aren't.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2012, 02:50:09 PM »

Piss on 'em. 

Improvise, Adapt and Overcome

Maybe they ran out of death cards

This PC crap has got to stop.









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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2012, 05:59:43 PM »
OSR...you need to research the merc on the bridge case ....THOROUGHLY,,,before sounding off again....just do it.
Now, I assumed the role of your 'research assistant' once again, and punched 'Taliban or Jihaddi desecation of American dead' in several search engines in several differant ways.....I came up blank on that...I did get alot of stuff on this current marine incontinence case and other US malfeasance....but other than that I didn't get any hits on their guys desecrating our dead guys....perhaps you can supply links as you made this sound like a regular occurence.  Thanx.
 
...TM7
TMeeeeee,
The "merc" as you so callously stated was a US citizen, and an employee of an American company, contracted to do work for the US military, not a mercenary.  Try looking up the definition of the word in a dictionary.  I really recommend that you know what a word means before you use it in a discussion.
I do believe you conveniently "overlooked" my mention of Daniel Pearl, intentionally on purpose.  Or was I correct in my stating that you don't consider Mr. Pearl an American because of his religion?  Or is it because I'm correct and you refuse to accept being proven wrong?
BTW, If you were my research assistant, I would have to let you go for incompetence, since you couldn't find the Daniel Pearl case and the case of the U.S. contractors being burned alive. 
 BTW Your quite welcome!

"Officer" OSR  ;D
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2012, 11:17:02 AM »

Officer OSR,,
You're waffling or babbling your point. You said jihaddis/Taliban desecreated our guys bodies...Berg and Pearle, privately employed as far as I know, officially got thier heads cut off for being spies according to their capitors.  The guys on the bridge we're pulled apart or and incinerated by incensed Iracqui mobs.....this particular case has alot of surrounding information,,,but I actually don't feel comfortable discussing it unless you insist.
.
So you asserted that our professional mercs and mil have been desecrated by Talbian/Jihaddis...In the interest of truth and verifcation I asked you to support your beliefs 3 times or more to no avail; then acting as your 'research assistant' again I tried to find such reports to no avail.....I'm just going to write this off as OSR trolling and drop it.

As for my thoughts on the marine incontinence case,,,I find it most peculiar when the US governmnet is sitting down with the Taliban to discuss peace truce/negotiations ...So these guys may have a much bigger charges to answer for than just being warrior primo barbarian archtypes. And odd that it is OKay to kill the muzzie enemy anyway which way you can, but peeing on their bodies is under the microscope...funny, huh.. ::)
...
..TM7   
As I stated you don't believe that the contractors on the bridge, or Berg, and Pearl were our guys?  Even though they were Americans?  Then you proceed to state that the because the killers were "incensed Iracqui mobs.", and that "Berg and Pearle, privately employed as far as I know, officially got thier heads cut off for being spies according to their capitors." it is okay?

Then please explain this:

BAGHDAD, Iraq - An Iraqi military official said Tuesday that the bodies of two missing U.S. soldiers showed signs of torture, and that men appeared to have been killed "in a barbaric way." Also, the umbrella group for Iraqi insurgents claimed responsibility for the soldiers' deaths.
"We give the good news ... to the Islamic nation that we have carried God's verdict by slaughtering the two captured crusaders," said a statement in the name of the Mujahedeen Shura Council, which groups five insurgent organizations including al-Qaida in Iraq.
 At a news briefing, U.S. Maj. Gen. William Caldwell declined to identify the two men until their families could be notified. "

As I stated, you can only find information if you search for it.  Apparently your sympathies for the muslim side, and your political views allowed you to conveniently overlook this.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2012, 11:18:36 AM »
Timeee,
Have you seen this:
 Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell' 1:37 PM, Jan 13, 2012 • By DANIEL HALPER     Single Page Print Larger Text Smaller Text Alerts           Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.allenwest“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline us920669

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2012, 12:07:54 PM »
West always seems to get it right.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2012, 12:55:12 PM »
Aw come on! They are just kids! And boys will be boys you know......at least according to Perry:
http://news.yahoo.com/perry-defends-marines-accused-urinating-corpses-201422122.html
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Swift One

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2012, 06:21:38 AM »
Prohibit any combat personel from having in possession any video, audio, or photographic device while on combat operations, missions, and patrols and this stupidity will cease.
 
"What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"
 
Combat experience is for the war fighters that were there- no one else.  The outcome of combat and war- liberation, freedom, protecting the US constitution is for everyone else to experience.
It's all a hot mess...........

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2012, 05:26:53 PM »
The problem is really the imposition of impossible rules of engagement by the liberals and the liberal press which rely on the premise, that what the enemy does is okay, and what our military personnel do is automatically wrong.  Even some of the press is starting to realize this:

Suicidal standards for America’s troops Last Updated: 12:31 AM, January 17, 2012
 Posted: 10:14 PM, January 16, 2012
             More Print     headshotArthur Herman
  Let’s stipulate three things about this video purportedly showing four Marines urinating on the bodies of their Taliban foes.
First, we don’t know the whole story of how or why the video was made or even the context. Second, if those Marines did do what it shows them doing, they brought dishonor on themselves and have unwittingly given aid and comfort to their enemies.
Third, there are those who are consciously giving that aid and comfort by using the video to traduce the most civilized and humane fighting force in history.
It’s true that warriors desecrating their dead foes is at least old as Homer’s “Iliad — true but irrelevant. It’s also true that Americans in previous wars have behaved as badly in the heat and aftermath of battle as these Marines, and even worse.
       Cpl. Eugene Sledge’s memoir of fighting on Peleliu and Okinawa in World War II has harrowing scenes in which his Marine buddies collect the gold teeth of dead Japanese — although, Sledge was quick to add, “I never saw a Marine commit the kind of barbaric mutilation the Japanese committed if they had access to our dead.”
Nor did he see his fellow Americans deliberately murder civilians, as Japanese and German soldiers regularly did in that war. Sledge and his comrades never condoned the random acts of barbarism of their comrades, but they understood it in the context that their enemy lived by doing far worse.
That’s pretty much the way it was from the American Revolution to Korea. Then something happened in the Vietnam era, when those who opposed the war decided they could speed up an American withdrawal by turning us into the bad guys.
The 1968 My Lai massacre offered that opportunity, and they greedily seized it. A new moral standard was set for our armed forces that persists to this day. It said how our troops behave under fire would be as important to judging the success of the mission as whether we won — indeed, in the minds of many, more so.
The catch phrase was and is, how we fought a war had to reflect “who we are as Americans” — meaning as civilians sitting at home comfortably removed from battlefield death.
After Vietnam, our politicians demanded that our armed forces be trained to wield the most lethal weapons ever made, with the moral and cultural sensitivity of Peace Corps volunteers. To anyone who knows history, our troops have met this challenge with overwhelming and unprecedented success — as our real record in Iraq and Afghanistan attests.
But it has left our military trapped in a strange double bind, one reflected in the furor over this video. If Somalis drag our dead through the streets or Iraqi insurgents dismember captured Marines or the Taliban gang-rape and mutilate women to enforce their vicious version of sharia law, the media treat it as irrelevant to understanding who we are fighting, or why. They even suppress those stories and images — such as the beheadings of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg. Their grounds for that censorship is that such reporting might “inflame hatred” — in other words, make us fight harder.
On the other hand, if an American warrior oversteps civilized bounds, his behavior becomes proof that our mission is a moral failure and no longer deserving of support.
To this mindset, Abu Ghraib trumps the crimes of Saddam, Gitmo overshadows the horror of 9/11 and four men peeing on a corpse nullifies our mission in Afghanistan.
This perspective is profoundly sick. It’s divorced from reality — one reason, I suppose, that it appeals to politicians and the media.
It’s even suicidal, as our enemies have been quick to discover. Who can forget Saddam Hussein’s “milk factory” during the first Gulf War or the al Qaeda manual that instructs trainees to cry “torture!” the minute they’re captured? It also led to the shooting at Fort Hood; no one dared to stop a raving jihadist in uniform for fear of being called an Islamophobe.
After all, who were the greater culprits in Vietnam, the men who fired on innocent civilians at My Lai or those who used it as an excuse to hand South East Asia over to the communists and genocide?
If experience is anything to go by, the Marines who misbehaved in that video will be disciplined and punished — while those who are trying to exploit those images to undermine their mission never will be.
Arthur Herman is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/suicidal_standards_for_america_troops_VkuYFKsCigNZq7aURwVKWJ#ixzz1jlfe8woX

"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline rickt300

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2012, 02:35:33 PM »
I disagree, if I slam a magazine of 5.56 thru a couple bad guys they think I should piss somewhere else? To the victor belongs the spoils and if he pisses on em so what? The hell with our liberal propaganda machine and the national security threat in the White House.
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.

Offline us920669

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2012, 03:57:44 AM »
Thanks, OSR, for posting the Herman column.  I'm glad he wrote it, but I don't think he read Sledge's book.  I did, a long time ago, and I don't have it anymore, but I remember it well.  It was called "With the Old Breed", and it mentions what he saw as a deterioration in the quality of our officers.  There was nothing wrong with their map-reading skills, or their patriotism, it was a question of maturity.  His first lieutenant, Haldane I think, was a real living legend, and none of the replacement lieutenants came close. In fact, one was seen urinating on a dead Jap.  Now, at this time, The "Jap" was probably the most despised creature on the planet for Americans, and nobody thought that the act was despicable, but that it was childish and immature, and no one wanted to be led by a childish and immature officer.   

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2012, 04:38:14 AM »
Received this email from a friend.  Don't know if this was actually "found" on a SeaBee message board, but I agree with the message.

"FOUND ON A SEABEE MESSAGE BOARD:

                Piss on a Crucifix, and they call you an "Artist"
                Piss on The American Flag, and they'll call you a Freedom of Speech "Constitutionalist"
                Piss on a Police Car, and they'll call you an Occupy Wall Street "Freedom Lovin' 99
                percenter"
                Piss on a Taliban piece of @#$% that just tried to kill you and your fellow Marines, and
                they'll call you a "Villain"
                Sure is a @#$%&*-up administration we have running this great country!!!!!
                Be sure to (non-cuss word deleted to comply with non-political rule) them ALL GONE in
                November!!!!!"

"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Freakin' IDJITS!
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 04:51:08 AM »
Thanks, OSR, for posting the Herman column.  I'm glad he wrote it, but I don't think he read Sledge's book.  I did, a long time ago, and I don't have it anymore, but I remember it well.  It was called "With the Old Breed", and it mentions what he saw as a deterioration in the quality of our officers.  There was nothing wrong with their map-reading skills, or their patriotism, it was a question of maturity.  His first lieutenant, Haldane I think, was a real living legend, and none of the replacement lieutenants came close. In fact, one was seen urinating on a dead Jap.  Now, at this time, The "Jap" was probably the most despised creature on the planet for Americans, and nobody thought that the act was despicable, but that it was childish and immature, and no one wanted to be led by a childish and immature officer.   
us920669 - I too read the book the "With the Old Breed", I understood Sledge's feelings about the new officer, especially after being blessed from the beginning with a good one.  But what most people forget was the attrition rate of 2nd Lt's. during WWII, replacements by and large were young, and probably childish and immature.  But you had to work with with what you had.
What I was most impressed with was Prof. E. Sledge, the man.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.