Opinions on the 10mm.

[auldpharght]

I have a Tanfoglio Witness 10mm Compact and it's a gem.  I admit that I did have to tweak the magazine lips, but that small adjustment has effected no further FTF's.

REAL 10mm ammunition - if you're ready for REAL 10mm - is available from:  http://www.texas-ammo.com/ammun.htm

(Propaganda from that site...) 10 MM (Express).  One of our most popular loads are our 10mm (Express).  Our goal was to provide a full line of  10mm loads with the power the 10mm was designed for.  We have chose the Nosler 135 Grain JHP loaded to 1450 fps for 630 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle; a 165 Grain JHP loaded to 1350 fps for 668 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle; and the Hornady 200 Grain FMJ-FP loaded to 1250 fps for 694 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle.  

As a Note, it seems there may have been some confusion over our introduction of these loads last year.  These are 10mm loads loaded to what we describe as our "Express" velocities -- It is NOT a new cartridge.  This ammunition can be fired in any modern 10mm handgun, in good condition, and manufactured to handle the maximum levels that the 10mm was originally designed for.

[Savage]

Hey William,
Haven't seen you post in a while. Good to know you're still kicking down there in Tejas! The condition you're referring to in the frame is called a "Stress Riser". These occur anywhere you have a rapid angular transition (like in a corner) and tend to concentrate stress in one area. Sometimes putting a radius on the corner is all it takes to distribute the stresses over a larger area and prevent failures. Even with low pressure rounds like the 45ACP.
Auld,
I have a full size Witness in 10mm that I'm still working with. Playing with spring weights and all. Just curious, what recoil and magazine springs have you ended up with?
Stay Safe all,
Savage

[unspellable]

The pressure a load generates has no bearing on slide velocity in a recoil operated pistol.  The slide velocity is a function of slide mass and cartridge impulse. A stiffer recoil spring will make only a trivial difference in slide velocity, too small a difference to bother calculating.

The cartridge impulse is the mass of the bullet times the muzzle velocity plus the mass of the powder charge times the average muzzle velocity of the powder gas.  This last velocity is difficult to measure so as a rule of thumb for pistols it is usually taken as 1.5 times the bullet velocity.

The cartridge impulse divided by the mass of the slide gives the slide velocity.  The preload of the recoil spring will reduce the slide velocity by a very small, trivial, and insignificant amount.

The recoil spring should bring the slide velocity down to nearly zero by the time it reaches its full rearward travel.  So for a higher slide velocity a stiffer spring is required to bring it down to near zero at the end of travel.

The slide return velocity will be significantly influenced by the recoil spring since the spring drives it.

The preload on the recoil spring on various firearms might be in the 10 to 30 lbf range.  On firing the recoil force on the slide exceeds 500 lbf for most pistols.  500 lbf minus 30 lbf is still 470 lbf, only a 6% reduction  going from no spring at all to a very stiff spring.

As for the pressure, consider that a 9 mm Parabellum cranks up more pressure than a 45 ACP, but the 45 will impart a higher velocity to a slide of the same mass due to the heavier bullet and powder charge.

Slide velocity will typically fall in the 10 to 15 fps range.

[Savage]

Thanks for the physics lesson! I still maintain that the slide on a full size 1911 has adequate mass to handle the 10mm round. My contentions are based on real life observations/experiences. Even if you can prove mathematically that it won't work, fact is, it works!  Assuming there were engineers involved in the decisions made most recently by Kimber and Dan Wesson to produce 10mm pistols on their 1911 platforms, I am not alone in my beliefs.
Savage

[williamlayton]

savage-
go over to pistolsmith and take a look around. They have a forum on the 10mm as well as a forum on ccustom guns. You will find a lot of info on this subject over there.
Come on over to tha saloon, we're having a party.
Blessings

[Savage]

William
Thanks for the invite partner! I'm working 12hr watches this week so don't have much time to party. I think I've pretty much had all the 10mm chat I need for a while. I'll let the guys over at Pistol Smiths beat it up for a while. Well choices, choices, should I carry the Kimber in 45 or 10mm------oh wait! The 10mm will destroy my Kimber with all that warp slide velocity! Guess I've been lucky the last couple of thousand rounds. See what happens when you work 12 hr shifts, I've gotten a bit giddy! Well off to work! Take care.
Savage

[HAMMERHEAD]

Just to bump this thread, but I did shoot pins today for the first time.
9mm FMJ's move pins.
10mm FMJ's REMOVE pins!
I do love my HK USP9E, but the Glock 20 really clears the table!

[Tusker]

:-)  Well here is another fan of the ten-- In a revolver-- Had it in an auto-S&W 1006-- couldn't change the grips and it just shot hard, I don't mean recoil, I guess it was the design, it just shot hard. Got rid of it and bought 4 more revolvers in the 10-- At this time I have,one in these barrel lenghts, 5,6 1/2, 6 1/2, 2 ea RUGERS, in 7 1/2, And one in 3"- S&W of course,--one of only 300, and it shoots great.  :wink: Had a couple more, but decided I couldn't wear them out before going to that big range in the sky, so I let them go. I load all my own and you can believe they are up to , and maybe above par.  :-)