Author Topic: Un-handi fellow - .454 Stutzen Build (Read 3269 times)

RPRNY · « **on:** January 13, 2012, 09:30:09 AM »

I am un-handi in having really no experience modifying or diy-ing firearms. To date, my sole successful endeavour, besides changing stocks, has been putting a Willliams firesight on my Marlin 336. Nevertheless, I have started a project building a .454 Stutzen, or Mannlicher style, carbine. Thanks to the wise folks on here, I have located GSI semi finished stock/forend (question #1) a great .454 barrel (thanks JasonF) and associated parts. I am however fairly clueless and would like your help on a few things (more to follow, no doubt).

1) The Gunstocks forend is for the 22" barrel. The BC carbine barrel is 20". The barrel stud hole is already machined, so removing 2" from the back/fat end is not an option. Removing 2" from the front/thin end will leave that end too thick, either to fit the nose cap or to look right. Keeping in mind that woodworking is yet another area where I have neither skill nor experience, I would welcome advice on shortening the forend in an aesthetically pleasing manner.

2) Sights. The BC carbine barrel is stock ex-factory with the buckhorn type rear sight. I dislike open sights (thus the Williams on my Marlin 336 and Lyman tang peep on my Marlin 1892). I see two options that seem to have have been well-liked by Forum members: the Williams WGRS-HR and the Marbles bullseye dovetail repalcement rear sight.

2-A) Any comments on the relative merits or demerits of either sight, or suggested alternatives, would be most welcome.

2-B) How? I know how to install the WGRS sight and feel that even I could do that. I understand the factory blade front sight will work (is tall enough) with it. Is that a correct understanding ? But I presume that I have to remove the buckhorn sight. I understand that the dovetail sight can be "drifted" out, but having never done it, would welcome any advice on "how to"(also applicable I take it should I go with the Marbles rear sight?). Finally, with what, if anything, does one replace the space that removal of the buckhorn rear sight leaves?

Should you wish to offer advice, please feel free to presume that I know nothing and have to be guided as one might an inept, somewhat "slow", child. I will not be offended

Thanks,

Richard

rdlange · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2012, 10:31:57 AM »

The GSI forend doesn't fit right. You have to contour the barrel channel for your barrel. I wrapped sandpaper around a stick and enlarged it using chalk to fit to the barrel. Google barrel channel fitting. It is too long at the back and has to be rasped/filed shorter to be the right length It also has to be tapered in to fit the spacer, and the holes spotted and drilled for the spacer screws.

Then you have to reshape the profile to make it more slender. There is enough at 20" length to reshape a shnaubel end for looks. Google it. So you'll need to reshape the forend anyway. Get a good half round rasp and file and some sand paper. Just go slow and keep the contours even on both sides. The profile starts out deeper at the action and tapers forwards in a very shallow curve the the muzzle.

The sights can be replaced without metal work. The current barrel sight is nice and well back to work. You could use one of the Lyman fold down rear sights in the existing dovetail but the sight would be 4" farther forward... to far in my opinion. The WGRS should work fine with the existing barrel sight left where it is. You can get a dovetail filler block to put in the empty dovetail. Midway or Brownells sells them. Same people that sell the WGRS sight.

If you use the BC carbine rear stock the wood might match. Standard factory stocks are not walnut, are a white wood and won't match the GSI forend.

When it's the right shape and fits well, you can use Truoil or something else to finish.

Not difficult, just takes patience and consistency. Go slow and ponder often.

RPRNY · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2012, 01:04:03 PM »

Quote from: rdlange on January 13, 2012, 10:31:57 AM

Go slow and ponder often.

Best advice among a very good field!

I should have noted that I bought both stock (Monte Carlo cheekpiece) and Forend from GSI:

And got both an H&R forend cap (shiny plastic) and - again thanks to advice on here - a steel forend cap from Brownells.

Your advice on what needs to be done to the forend and how to go about it is great, thanks. I imagine I can still taper it to fit the forend cap, rather than cut it back to a Schnabel? Thanks also for the info on the WGRS and factory blade sight. If I do have to "knock" the dovetail out, what's the best way to do it without doing any damage?

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2012, 01:32:15 PM »

My sight recommendation would be the Williams FP-TK rear sight with the Lyman #20A dovetail front globe sight. Very accurate setup.

RPRNY · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2012, 05:34:54 AM »

Need some help please.

I've started working on the forend, cut it down to fit the 20" 45LC/454 barrel and have reamed out the barrel channel slowly but surely to a good fit, except for one issue. The barrel stud has a rubber O-ring on it that I assume is there to cushion impact on the forend to help prevent cracking. But when I seat the barrel, this effectively slightly high-centers creating a small but noticeable pivot point.

Has anyone encountered this issue before? If so, what are your recommendations?

Thanks

Jason F · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2012, 05:49:52 AM »

i put that o-ring on there you can take it off,that is just a way of floating the forend.

RPRNY · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2012, 09:26:38 AM »

Thanks for the info Jason. I'm going to try to sink it a bit. I like the O-ring as a cushion against stock vibration and shock.

RPRNY · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2012, 04:11:38 AM »

Pics and progress report here:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=278344&p=2397304&sid=fa1c94b4699650d274c069f4e810d20f#p2397304

Great semi finished stock from GSI but they need a lot more work than you think initially:

That .45 barrel really is rather large:

But it's getting there:

RPRNY · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2012, 01:13:00 PM »

Some more pics and progress:

mechanic · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2012, 01:56:52 PM »

VERY nice!!

Ben

Jason F · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2012, 02:40:24 PM »

Very nice,i an jealous

rdlange · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2012, 02:56:54 PM »

Great job so far. Looking forward to seeing the finished gun. Hope it shoots as good as it's looking to be.

RPRNY · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2012, 02:31:52 PM »

Getting there:

Lots more finishing to do. Need to install the Williams Peep Sight. Not sure if I dare take on the checkering myself...

RPRNY · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:14:51 PM »

Some more headway. Okay, drilling for the rear swivel stud and the forend for the Mannlicher style swivels was terrifying. Having done all that work forming and surfacing them, the prospect of f***ing it up was very daunting. Luckily, it worked out. The card scrapers have been incredibly useful and I would urge anyone finishing stocks to get and use these. My BIL sent them to me and they were key. I blued the nosecap and swivels with Dicrophan T-4 creme having heated them to about 185F. The bluing isn't as rich as I would have liked, but not too bad.

Finally, I have to decide on stain. I would like to get somewhere between the "top" two colours in the picture, the middle being extremely diluted and the top at half strength. Your comments welcome.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:20:29 PM »

Thats gonna' be a fine looking rifle! Be sure and lay it on heavy to all your buddies with the big bucks guns that it is a Handi! One of my favorite things is to outshoot them with an old H&R!

Ben

knight0334 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2012, 05:03:04 PM »

What is that metal scrapper do? (I'm not a wood worker)

I've just sanded(several grits) and whiskered with steel wool.

Spanky · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2012, 05:27:04 PM »

I'll take it! Oops... wrong forum.

Nice work.

Spanky

rdlange · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:43:04 PM »

You're moving right along. I can relate to the forend sling swivel. Still haven't figured out and drilled mine. and I've gone for a plastic forend tip because that's what I have to match the pistol grip cap. Doing it very slow when I have time to play.

Scrapers are neat, I'm glad you like them. Some folks have a hard time keeping them sharp.

I use Feibings leather stain now for all wood because it soaks in so well. Then usually Truoil or Linspeed, which ever I can find... just easier to find a Wally world.

Gonna be a fine Handi. Please keep up the progress pictures. Thanks.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2012, 02:51:38 AM »

Here is a link for stain I have used on several muzzle loaders:

http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/index.htm

Have you tried the fit of the stock for sight alignment? The Monte Carlo cheekpiece may be too high since it is there for scope sights. If you are using iron sights you may need to lower the comb so you can comfortably see the sights.

I echo the recommendation of a Williams Foolproof receiver sight. I have used the regular ones since 1964 and really like them. I recently got one with the target knobs (FP-H&R-TK) so I don't need a screw driver to adjust it but haven't used it out in the woods yet. The jury is still out on that one as to how it will hold up. Maybe Doublebass73 has more information on that.

Another sight you might want to look at is the Skinner. There is a forum dedicated to those further down. I have no experience with them but others here seem to like them.

Nice work, by the way. That should be a rifle anyone would be proud to own!

-Kees-

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2012, 06:16:25 AM »

Very nice work!! I can relate to how you feel abut messing things up, Murphy is a constant companion of mine. When ever I do woodwork, I end up with a very nice pile of saw dust and toothpics and nothing else.

DP

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:20:20 AM »

That's looking awesome, I envy your wood working skills and the patience it requires!

Tim

RPRNY · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:49:31 AM »

Thanks for the encouragement!

Tim,

I have no woodworking skills

This is the first time I've ever done anything like this. I guess I have moderate listening skills - Rdlange's advice of "go slow and ponder much" has been extremely valuable. And some patience, which has been a big surprise to me.

On the card scrapers, here's a good explanation:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00007.asp

On comb height, that's a good point, thanks. I have taken the comb down, but want to leave the option for a red dot or scout scope. Right now, it is at the limit of comfort/use with the buckhorn sight. With an aperture sight, I'm hoping it will be fine, but it may make sense to decide on the sight and check it before finishing...

I'm looking at the Laurel Mountain and Feibings stains. Very hard for me to decide what's going to look right. I think lighter rather than darker...

I will also have a look at the Williams FP sights and Skinner Sights. I know the Marlin guys love their Skinner sights.

I have another thread up on barrel fitment as mine doesn't lock up. Seems like a classic case of taking a little out of the barrel pivot. Looks like the previous owner may have taken a little off the bottom edge of the barrel facing surface to get it to lock up. The receiver is a a recent manufacture Ilion SB2 so with almost no wear. I have read the barrel fitment section from the FAQ but would greatly appreciate any additional advice or counsel.

RPRNY · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2012, 02:46:20 PM »

So, I had a go at barrel fitment. Not sure whether this counts as success.

I removed a tiny amount from the barrel pivot and shaved the barrel shelf a bit and got it to close but not click. When closed, I cannot open it pushing hard against my knee, but the release mechanism is not at its full height. I also have a gap at the barrel face equivalent to a piece of light household aluminium foil folded once and smoothed completely, ie it will slide in about 1/16th or less of an inch.

Is that "fit" or not yet? If not yet, does it sound like slightly more of the barrel shelf needs shaving or, if something else, what?

Thanks

umberger · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2012, 03:01:13 PM »

great work, had an original harrington-richardson 30-30 manlicker years ago, very light wish I kept it,

Antietamgw · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2012, 04:25:08 PM »

Un-handi? BS, looks great. Patience is the key. I've recently been using ProCustom Oil finish, available from Brownells. It's a Urethane - tung oil mixture and has worked very well for a "sanded in" finish. It can be finished out in gloss or rubbed out for a soft satin finish. I think it's easier to use than the old Varathane standby and I like the end result better than TruOil. You might consider it when it comes time to seal and finish. I look forward to seeing the end result!

RPRNY · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:44:49 PM »

After much hemming and hawing I decided on good old Minwax stain in "Special Walnut". The stuff that comes in the Birchwood Casey Tru-oil finishing kit is bloody awful. Sort of a mucky red-brown. I tried an "antique" walnut stain but it had a sort of yellowish tone. Anyway, the Minwax came out rather well and has an almost bronze hue to it. Really brought out the figure of the wood - cool tiger striping - and looks good IMHO. Will start with the Tru-oil tomorrow night.

mechanic · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:12:51 PM »

Beautiful wood...did you get that barrel to fit up?

Ben

tacklebury · « **Reply #27 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:15:42 PM »

Beautiful job.

rdlange · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:33:07 PM »

Very nice wood. You chose the right stain. We like folks who share our passion.

LUK...

RPRNY · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:13:57 PM »

Yes Ben, thanks. Once again, RD's advice to go slow and ponder much - as well as the extensive write up in the FAQ and Tim's "How To" - worked a charm. It just wanted a tiny bit out of the barrel pivot and a slight shave of the shelf. Locks up tighter than a Scotsman's wallet.