1680 357 Maxi data

[bikerbeans]

Hi All,
When I reamed my 357 Mag to Max in 2010 I don't remember this data being published.  I just setup a new laptop and started downloading available load data and found this for the Maxi.  I am not very good at formatting so I will leave that up to you guys.  Also, there was data for 5744 but I didn't copy it.   Bold font below is added by me to the data copied from Alliant.

BB
 

357 Maximum-T/C

Barrel:10" �¡ Twist: 1-18.75" �¡ Primer: Win WSP �¡ Bullet Diameter .357"
 

These loads and round configurations cannot be used in standard handguns revolvers etc. It is intended

only for barrels that has been adapted to accept the much longer COL = Cartridge Overall Length

For longer barrel lengths add to the velocity(ca): 14":+9%/+150Fps 20": +18%.+300Fps

Powder, bullet, charge, velocity, charge, velocity, pressure, COL"

1680 180 HDY HP-XTP 25.5 1,724 28.3 1,884 39,500 2.025

1680 180 HDY SSPB 27.0 1,692 30.0 1,850 27,470 2.350

1680 200 HDY FTX 27.0 1,670 30.0 1,837 35,810 2.500

Italics = Compressed loads

(per the load data none of these are compressed)

[Dinny]

BB,
  I use 28gr with the Hornady 180gr SS-PB and have yet to find a better load that shoots this well in all of my Maxis. That is the "go-to" load for me!


Thanks, Dinny

[cwlongshot]

BB,
  I use 28gr with the Hornady 180gr SS-PB and have yet to find a better load that shoots this well in all of my Maxis. That is the "go-to" load for me!


Thanks, Dinny

BE CAREFUL! That load is ABOVE MAXIMUM from my AA manuel!! 26.5 grs shows MAX. In my orig maxi 27
grs was getting a pretty flat primer...
 
Look at Accurate Arms manuel... I could scan the page if you cannot find it.

CW

[Dinny]

CW,
  Thanks for the concern. I think some updates have been made since that book was printed.


http://357maximum.com/developing-a-load/


http://357maximum.com/demo/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/pressure-data.pdf




Thanks, Dinny

[cwlongshot]

I'm not quite so quick to just go with more powder cause I found data on line...
 
As I said, in my orig Maxi, 27G was getting pretty warm... I am glad its good in your guns, it might not be in all, it would be too hot in my orig maxi factory chamberd gun!
 
CW

[Dinny]

I'm not quite so quick to just go with more powder cause I found data on line...

Nor was I. I developed that load from extensive testing starting with 24gr of powder. 28grs just so happen to shoot the best of all weights I tried before that.


Thanks, Dinny

[THSkeer]

Ok you smart MAX guys.  I need the RCBS seater plug for the SSP type bullets.  Anyone know the part number?  Thanks

[TNBilly]

Ok you smart MAX guys.  I need the RCBS seater plug for the SSP type bullets.  Anyone know the part number?  Thanks

It's no longer available online at least, wish it was but after calling RCBS CS they sent me the stem for a 35 remington which is a great fit!

[TNBilly]

I'm not quite so quick to just go with more powder cause I found data on line...
 
As I said, in my orig Maxi, 27G was getting pretty warm... I am glad its good in your guns, it might not be in all, it would be too hot in my orig maxi factory chamberd gun!
 
CW

CW ya need to update your information, the information is from Accurate and works great for the stated OAL's.  I'd suspect your information is old enough to only apply to revolver loaded lengths!  At the lengths Accurate states safe for the 180SSSP and the 200 gr SP 30 grains is max.

[bikerbeans]

cw,
 
the load data I pasted is from Accurate's current reloading data that I downloaded this morning.  I posted this data because to me it seem like the loads where something new, maybe as a result of the testing that was done for steve (hope i remembered his name correctly) with the 357Maximum website?   Here is the link, probably should have included this in my original post.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf
 
BB

[cwlongshot]

Thanks for the links,
 My point... still stands, data can change 10X over. With the 1680 powder sitting in my bottle and the bullets seated and crimped to the crimp groove, fired from my barrel orig Max H&R barrel, @ 27 Grains is TOO HOT! I dont have pics of my primers and case measurements to show you or quote as I found this out 10 years ago. Its the same today, I just shot this gun with my loading two days ago. Shooting 170 Sierra bullets, seated long and taper crimped with same load of 1680 shows flattened primers and expanded webs. (same barrel, now my shorty maxi)
 
I am certain some guys will not find this a problem. The point is starting a new caliber loading in a new to you rifle or chamber at anything but a starting load. (At the BOTTOM of the charge weights) is a bad habit to get into reloading. 28G is NOT a starting load, its near max (Your new data) Start lo and if you can in fact shoot 30 grs fine. In my case at 26.5 G I got almost 2300 fps and minimal wed expansion.
 
With this caliber there are different considerations than most. Its a 357 shooting 358 RIFLE bullets. 357 PISTOL bullets seat deeply to keep there OAL in order to function in the rev cylinders. The 180 SSP cannot work in a rev cylinder. It seats quite shallow compared to a 357, 180 g bullet. This changes the capacity of the case and allows for more powder with the BULLET NOT just that weight. PLUS the extra bullet diameter. Its safe IF the loader loads appropriately.
 
A quick story from the opposite side of the coin. The 30-30 Win and WW748 powder. Current data shows nearly 5 grs LESS as a max loading than data from some 20 years ago. In my 30-30s I am able to shoot the old loading, a full 3+ grains OVER what is listed today as a max loading for this powder and my bullet. I tell the story, but not the loadings as I agree with Bills orig ruling of NO powder chg quotes. My thinking is mistakes happen and I would not want to hear someone used what I miss quoted and got hurt.
 
I am happy to see new and updated data for one of my favorite calibers. But having it does NOT immediately dismiss long standing data. A good loader, gets as much data as they can and weighs all to arrive at what they will load and try. Just use our heads, look at whats happening and move on edjucated and confident it is safe.
 
CW

[gendoc]

lets go ahead an settle this.....when i get time, i'll build me up that load and monitor its
pressures in tha test cell.
im very familier with tha xtp and ssp...........
which primers yall use ?
what are you measuring your propellent with ?
new brass, or fired.... in your chamber i hope !!!
all yall use tha same COL ?
being there all rechambers, would i be correct to say that they have shallow chambers,
or didya dig'um out linda syle ? 
 
and i know i will be correct with this statement..........no 2 chambers will produce tha same pressures.

[bikerbeans]

Doc,
 
I ain't got a dog in this fight (yet), just posted the Accurate 357 maxi (t/c) data because I was pretty sure it was a tad more potent than what I saw when I first got into Maxi loading.  I have never seen a jug of 1680 on the shelf so all my shooting is with H110 using Hodgdon's load data.  I found a grain below max with 180 hp/xtp works just fine in my Talo. 
I would however, really like to see your pressure results with the 1680 as I would like to try this powder in my Maxi.   
 
BB

[revbc]

I load 27gr for the 180 xtp and it is a  compressed load, contrary to the data listed.

[petemi]

I haven't been able to get 1680 locally (within 100 miles) so it'll have to wait until I put in my next large powder and primer order.  I can say however,  my shorty maxi likes hot loads, pushing or exceeding 2 grand.  Even with .38s, it prefers +Ps.  At 8 - 900 fps it shoots about like my 12 ga. with buckshot.

After reading about jeepmann1948's (George's) son's recent success with 158 grs. on deer and armadillo, I'm going to load some 158 gr. XTPs  for the Maxi and see what I come up with.  I have .358 bullets from 125 gr. up to 220, so it'll be interesting learning what the .356 Winchester is going to like.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Here's the AA data so you fellas on dial-up don't have to wait for the download.

Tim

357 Maximum-T/C
Barrel:10" ■ Twist: 1-18.75" ■ Primer: Win WSP ■ Bullet Diameter .357"
These loads and round configurations cannot be used in standard handguns revolvers etc. It is intended
only for barrels that has been adapted to accept the much longer COL = Cartridge Overall Length
For longer barrel lengths add to the velocity(ca): 14":+9%/+150Fps 20": +18%.+300Fps
5744 180 HDY HP-XTP 20.0 1,517 22.2 1,704 39,775 2.025
5744 180 HDY SSPB 22.2 1,638 24.7 1,824 39,825 2.350
5744 200 HDY FTX 21.1 1,532 23.5 1,707 39,565 2.500
1680 180 HDY HP-XTP 25.5 1,724 28.3 1,884 39,500 2.025
1680 180 HDY SSPB 27.0 1,692 30.0 1,850 27,470 2.350
1680 200 HDY FTX 27.0 1,670 30.0 1,837 35,810 2.500

[cwlongshot]

Tim,
I am suprised to see a small Pistol primer in their recipe.

I generally use a Rem SR primer sometimes a CCI SR mag primer.

Small pistol primers can be soft at higher pressures. I had problems right off using them with my first maxi loadings back in the '80's!!

[Dinny]

Tim,
I am suprised to see a small Pistol primer in their recipe.

I generally use a Rem SR primer sometimes a CCI SR mag primer.

Small pistol primers can be soft at higher pressures. I had problems right off using them with my first maxi loadings back in the '80's!!

I have to agree. Only SR primers for me too.


Thanks, Dinny

[quickdtoo]

Me too, I had pierced primers with the Dan Wesson ammo on an SB1 frame, no problems on an SB2 tho. I've only worked up one load with my second Maxi using CCI450 primers, up to 28gr 1680 under a 180gr Speer FP @ 2.293" COL, best accuracy was at 26.5gr.

Tim

[dave29]

Me too, I had pierced primers with the Dan Wesson ammo on an SB1 frame, no problems on an SB2 tho. I've only worked up one load with my second Maxi using CCI450 primers, up to 28gr 1680 under a 180gr Speer FP @ 2.293" COL, best accuracy was at 26.5gr.

Tim

Same load I use. 26.5gr of 1680 and CCI 450's, under SSP's though.

[cwlongshot]

Me too, I had pierced primers with the Dan Wesson ammo on an SB1 frame, no problems on an SB2 tho. I've only worked up one load with my second Maxi using CCI450 primers, up to 28gr 1680 under a 180gr Speer FP @ 2.293" COL, best accuracy was at 26.5gr.

Tim

Same load I use. 26.5gr of 1680 and CCI 450's, under SSP's though.

Great minds as they say....::)Y

CW

[quickdtoo]

 

[Dinny]

lets go ahead an settle this.....when i get time, i'll build me up that load and monitor its
pressures in tha test cell.
im very familier with tha xtp and SSP...........
which primers yall use ? CCI BR-4
what are you measuring your propellent with ? RCBS Chargemaster
new brass, or fired.... in your chamber i hope !!!   Either/or trimmed to 1.595"
all yall use tha same COL ? 2.185"
being there all rechambers, would i be correct to say that they have shallow chambers, Mine was throated specifically to a dummy round as spec'd above.
or didya dig'um out linda syle ?  Lovelace?
 
and i know i will be correct with this statement..........no 2 chambers will produce tha same pressures. True!

Thanks Doc, I'm curious to see the results.


Thanks, Dinny

[otterbob]

  In referance to the load data from the scanned loading manual :

 
Please refer to page 12 of the SAAMI.org data publication at

 
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

 
You will notice that the maximum pressure using “CUP” for the 357 MAGNUM is 45000 cup and for the 357 MAXIMUM it is 48000 cup this is the same as the posted scan stating 48000 cup for the 357 MAXIMUM.
However please note that the maximum “load” listed for the 180 gr bullet in the scan says that the pressure for the load listed is 41000 cup,which is well below the SAAMI maximum of 45000 cup for the 357 MAGNUM which is even less then the SAMMI maximum of 48000 cup for the 357 MAXIMUM.
Also note in the scan that pressure is pushed to 42200 cup for a heavier bullet which denotes that the 41000 cup is arbitrary as max.

 
Speaking only for myself I would question the manuals data as maximum load for a 357 MAXIMUM as it clearly states the pressure is 41000 cup.

 
One thing that I always like to factor into my decision as to use or not use published data is the number of different listing of the same data from different sources.

 
I am finding that some data is very conservative of maximum load data, and we all know why : I'll SUE !. Another thing I find is that some powders can “max-out” at a lower pressure before it no longer increases steadily but instead spikes once you pass the “maxed-out” pressure of the questioned powder.

 
I too would like to see the test results of the pressure generated as offered above. If it is near the same as listed in the manual then we know the manual is just conservative.

 

 
Otter Bob

 

 

 
 

[gendoc]

ok guy's... while i'm pack'n cajun sausage and grind'n bacon burger, j3 and his "lil'hotty" he calls her   are get'n ready for the handload'n of your favorite examples for tha test cell. j2 and i will calibrate the piezo tran. we mite be able to squeeze offa shot or 3 before go'n on tha early even'n mission to tha hardwoods

[quickdtoo]

Just so we're talkin apples and apples here, the current SAAMI maximum average pressure for the 357 Maximum is 40kpsi, not to be confused with the old SAAMI MAP of 48kcup.

Tim

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#pressure

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

[gendoc]

10-4 tim, psi isa what i'm look'n at.........i guess many here did'nt know bout tha change in direction of tha map

[cwlongshot]

John,
Off topic comment...

I "hear" the voice and see the "style" but somehow it just ain't you with out Shultz lookin back at me...  just sayin'

CW

[gendoc]

i know !!! man yall wud'nt believe how many folks have told me to change back !!!!
i plan on it soon.......but,i just am tha oldest combat marine in these parts and tha "jack" stands redi to strike at any moment

[gendoc]

ok, its here...........
in 2 different tests. ANY OVER CHARGED LOADS WILL NOT BE TESTED ACCORDING TO MY
LOAD CALCULATIONS.
 
1st test   .357 max CIP,  44962 MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE PSI.
 
180gr hornady ssp
23.4gr accurate 1680
43990psi by piezo cip
 
2nd test  .357 max SAAMI,  40000 MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE PSI.
 
180gr hornady ssp
22.6gr accurate 1680
39696psi by piezo saami
 
testing based on information dinny gave us
COL, primers,case conditions,with 22" barrel are the same
 
no FPS info will be givin with these results..........its called CYA
 
your mileage will vary   this is not a legal report, so it can not be used as a training aid.
you are on your own with this information. and i was possibly intoxicated when i performed these tests..anuther CYA !!!................so you got it and thatsa all i gotta say bout that.
cept for..................  
 
I KNOW NUTHIN.