Clearing ground for a small orchard****UPDATED WITH PICS*****

[keith44]

A question for the homesteaders, and those who have "improved" their own land.

After an area is cleared of undergrowth, wild canes, brambles, scrub trees, etc What should be done to make the ground ready for fruit trees?

One source talks about breaking up sod and sowing legumes and grasses a season before planting fruit trees, but no mention of tree clearing. 

Any thoughts?


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This is the area I am going to be clearing out.

[reliquary]

 
I have about 1.5 acres, bought in '99.  I cleared, as you described, the area for my fruit trees (about 12 combined peach/plum, two apple, two fig, one pear) which amounted to about 75' X 100'. 
 
The actual spots I was going to put my trees, I sprayed with Roundup a couple of times, then piled leaves and grass clippings on them, and left them one season.  The rest of the area, I just kept (and keep) mowed to encourage grass to grow.
 
I sowed crimson clover and purple clover in the cleared spots and re-sow crimson every three or four years just to keep some going. 
 
A couple of months prior to planting the trees, I tilled in the leaf and clipping piles with 12-12-12...probably any complete fertilizer would do.  By the time I planted the trees, the ground was mellow and I just used a shovel to open the hole for the rootball.
 
When I replace an old or dying tree, I just move over a few feet and till/fertilize in the fall and plant in the spring.  We have a real problem with borers that I haven't been able to completely fix, and with the other diseases that haunt peach/plum trees here, I'm lucky to get 5-6 years on cultivars.  The native varieties like the purple peach and the wild plums die back and come out again.
 
I don't think there's a lot of science to it.  As long as you have 10" or more of soil over a firm base and fair drainage, the trees will grow.

[reliquary]

 
I just realized I missed part of the question.  Newly planted fruit trees don't compete well against established "nonfruit" trees.  I clearcut the established trees from the orchard site and don't have any other trees within 50' of a fruit tree.

[keith44]

thanks for the replies reliquary, it sounds like I am planning to do pretty much like you did.  Only I was thinking white clover and bluegrass sowing, and I'm gonna need to apply a good quantity of lime.

[reliquary]

 
As I said in the "ground cover" and other thread, I'm going to white clover in the garden spot.  Probably will use what I have left over around the fruit trees.  Crimson is a lot cheaper and I like it.  My wife likes to find 4-leafs in the white.  WTH.
 
The only pH adjustment I've ever really HAD to do was around the lakeside.  I found that most stuff will grow to my lackadaisical standards without it.
 
Get, from the nurserypersons or the county extension agents, a recommended spraying schedule for your orchard. From your other posts, you sound astute enough to have already figured that out.
 
Commercial peaches and plums "come here looking for a convenient place to die", according to the professional growers I know.  Even with my scrupulously adhering to the spraying, pruning, and mulching schedules, I still lose them far too often to suit me.  A nurseryman I know, who is also a professor of horticulture at a local university, gave up on growing peaches...there's a clue for us.
 
BTW...do you know the difference between a horse and a prostitute?...you can lead a horse to water but you can't lead a horticulture.  That's his favorite joke. 
 
So I keep a couple of the native varieties of trees around just in case.  There is the old (so-called) Indian purple, and a mealy-white-fleshed variety that show up here.  Very often they come up from where we scatter the seeds from the preserving scraps.  I have several of them growing in untended areas and a couple in the orchard.
 
The Pluot/Plumcot/suchlike varieties, mostly used for rootstock but marketed by some nurseries, are hardy plums.  They, like the native peaches, will die back to the roots but sprout again and again.  Also, I've transplanted some native red&yellow plums to untended areas.  So we usually have some fruit, even in lean years.
 
I don't spray my apples (Anna and Dorsett, one each), pear, grapes, or fig.  I figure that if I can find those kinds of fruit living around abandoned homesteads, intended for generations, that they need little care. So far, it's worked. Keep us posted on your progress...you write good stuff.

[reliquary]

 
(censored)..should be UNtended. 

[bilmac]

I don't think I would mix any grass seed with whatever legume you plant for ground cover. What typically happens in a mix is that the grass will increase and the legumes will decrease,especially if you mow it. Grass doesn't mind being mowed at all, but any kind of forb suffers from mowing.

I would just pick the recommended best ground covering legume for your area and plant that alone. You may have to do some maintenance seeding in the future, but once the grass gets going, it will win over the long run.

[blind ear]

If you keep the grass mowed down to the top of the cloaver, leaving the clover height enough to bloom until it starts to get hot enough for the clover to die down for the summer the clover holds on pretty good. Start with a small area of clover to see how your culture practices work out. ear

[reliquary]

 
In the strips between the producers, I usually let the redclover go until it forms seeds, mature enough to take hold next year.  Most of the grass is Bermuda and I spray its outer edges to keep it from overrunning the productive areas.  After that, it's just an  extension of the yard that I mow, and use the clippings for mulch or compost pile.
 
I read in another site: a person recommended planting things right up to the trunks of his fruit trees...tomatoes, peas & beans, etc.  Have any of y'all tried that?  I fertilize and mulch under my trees and may try a little of that this year.
 
One thing I plan to do this year is grow some (4-5) tobacco plants.  I ordered some seed to store in my "SHTF locker" and am going to test them.  A Foxfire article recommended heaping up a brush&limb pile, burning that in the spring, and putting the seedlings there to grow.  Since I have a good heaping pile courtesy of a windstorm, I thought about doing that.
 
 
 
 

[keith44]

I have read in many of my books that growing vegetables in rows between immature fruit trees is a good use of the land.  A couple authors even claim to have made enough profit doing this until the trees bore fruit that it paid for the trees.


Other than marketing I do not see any value in the practice.

[charles p]

Get a free soil test from your state agri department.  Code it for fruit trees and your report will tell you what your soil needs.

[keith44]

needs phosphor, and magnesium.  Ph 6.8,

[charles p]

I think Epsom salt is magnesium.  Not positive.  Phosphate should be easy at any hardware or farm supply.

[keith44]

you are correct

[keith44]

Today (22 Jan 2012) the temps reached into the upper 50's so I started clearing out the area I want the Orchard to go into.


Below are before and after pics of todays efforts with a machete, an axe, and a scythe.  As you can see there are vines, brambles, and scrub and damaged trees that need to be dealt with anyway.  I did find two persimmon trees, one black walnut, and one white oak that I will keep.

[keith44]

Bad case of anal glaucoma today, so I burned a vacation day and worked on clearing out some of the damaged and diseased trees in the area I want the orchard in.

[chefjeff]

Twenty years ago,I started almost the same type setup in my backyard.Had four 50plus yr. old black walnuts. Cut down two.One is just so majestic,can't quite do it.Several bushels of nuts plague me every year,have to pick up and ditch them.Don't like the taste.The hulls (and other parts) secrete a poison to your ground,only certain things will grow under them.A great timber tree if you have about 100 years. If you have room,try some chestnuts.Even the original is now available,blight free.Chinese really put off the nuts.Me and the critters like them.Planted my apple trees in varieties that started bearing in the spring,summer,and fall for a long harvest.Blueberries,hazelnuts,grapes,a black and raspberry patch....one day I may really need them.

[keith44]

I guess my little thinker ain't too far out of line if I'm following similar to what was done 20 years ago.

[Rock Home Isle]

This is looking mighty nice there keith44. 

[keith44]

This is looking mighty nice there keith44. 

Thanks Rock Home Isle!!  Got a ways to go, but I think it will be worth it.


I called the church yesterday, and the wood will probably be going to a 71 year old man who has wood as his primary heat, but is no longer able to get his own wood.

[Rock Home Isle]

That is an awesome donation. Very Cool. 

[longwinters]

I've got a picture in my mind of what your orchard will look like.  Looks real good.
 
Long
 
 

[keith44]

Thanks Long, I hope it turns out like I am picturing it.