Cold Weather and Firearms

[teamnelson]

I walk to work, this morning it was 30 degrees, felt like in the 20s, and got me thinking. Years ago I did the arctic operations package at Pickle Meadows, that's a Marine combat course in the Sierra Nevadas, and then a NATO exercise above the arctic circle so I am intimately familiar with weapons operation in extreme cold. I tell you what, it kicked my butt, accuracy dropped, and we had tailored gear and training - I lost 20 lbs the first month.
 
 Imagine survival in the dead of winter. Do you know how your chosen rifle will fare? Can you fit your gloves in the trigger guard? Large loop lever? Do you know how the cold effects POI? Zero? Ammo? Barrel? Gas system? How are you at rolling and shooting with heavy clothes on in cold? Can you get a good sight picture with your sniffle gear on?
 
 I posted this up elsewhere on the net and got some really good comments/experiences from folks, I suspect there's a lot of knowledge here as well. There are some different skills required, and some features to consider on firearms selection and maintenance.

[SHOOTALL]

I only hunt in the cold and camped in the cold. Add rain or snow and things get really bad fast. On bolt guns and leveractions oil is removed and graphite is used . I have found autos vary as to which work. I think any auto that has alum surfaces that the action rides on is a poor choice for extreme cold. It difficult to lube it so it doesn't gall or freeze . Ammo I keep in a pocket until needed , not a good pratice I would imagine in a combat situation but works hunting ( a bolt gun works best). Clothes are a problem. I go as light as possible with synthetics that stay warm when wet . When on the stand I often take my arms out of the sleeves of a heavy coat and just wrap the coat over me , if a deer comes its easy to slip out and have better arm movement while shooting.
I carried an AR the last 2 seasons and on cold days it seemed sludgiest when operating the bolt. Same with a SX2 shotgun. The M1a socom I used a few years ago and 870 shotgun never felt this way.
I spent 4 days of hunting in Canada , ice falling 30-40 mph wind with gust to 60 mph. temp in 20's most of the time. We had to leave the boat and field hunt . The field was at the end of lake Winnipeg and the field had about 4 ft of water in it. The water was about 4 inches below my waders top. Dog sat on a round bale or tread ed water. Had to open the bolt every so often to keep it operating as it would freeze shut. We limited out each day . It was hard to shoot with all the clothes and we had to modify the way we shot.
You bring up a good topic.

[teamnelson]

Wow, that's some cold hunting!

Good tip on the graphite, I lubed light then wiped dry but I'll try graphite. As you know, if you bring a cold weapon into a warm tent, then back out again, the concern is condensation, which will freeze in the action even if its not wet outside. Good note on the aluminum surface - that would effect alot of popular handguns as well.

What have you discovered about using the weapon controls, selector, safety, mag drop, forward assist, trigger even ... with CW gloves?

Looking at Handguns, I haven't found a single CCW semi that you could get more than a glove liner into the trigger guard. And amongst duty weapons, only a few have enough room in the guard for a decent CW gloved finger. And very few are easy to operate with more than contact gloves on. It appears H&K thought about this, as did the Turkish company that's exporting that new .45 sidearm. I know of negligent discharges from troops trying their sidearm for the first time with the issue gloves ... not good. I've found DA revolvers to be much easier to handle with field gloves on.

[SHOOTALL]

Retracting the bolt and carrier with a scope on is not the best with out gloves with them not so safe so I added a larger lever that sticks out enough for use with gloves. Mag release and bolt release work ok . A magpul trigger bow was added after first season which helps . Last year the shooting hand glove was off and in a pocket. In really cold weather.  I agree a revolver as you can place your thumb behind the trigger while placing gloved finger on trigger.
Yep about bringing gun in. Would add if you have a recoil spring like in a stock it needs to be cleaned after bad weather hunting as it will rust.
 
Oh yea selector I WISH !    although Va. has the most reg auto weapons we can't hunt with them 

[Graybeard]

What winter? Dat's why I live in Alabama.

We're looking at highs in the high 60s low 70s the next week plus with lows in the mid 40s to mid 50s.

[SHOOTALL]

What winter? Dat's why I live in Alabama.

We're looking at highs in the high 60s low 70s the next week plus with lows in the mid 40s to mid 50s.

GB winter makes the ticks, spiders and snakes go away for hunting season .

[don heath]

It is cold in the desert on winter mornings. 20's are not uncommo0n and we have haddown to -16C, even though it warms up to 80+ by day.
 
Never noticed any change in bullet impact...Our issue CZ 75 pistols were ok with gloves on and my standard S&W M58 or 329' work just fine.
 
Tip from the Norwegians though...use white lithium greese with aded PTFE rather than oil for operating in cold or high dust.

[SHOOTALL]

that sounds like lubriplate grease sort of which was made for cold and wet back in WW2. I use it , it also works on AR's in really hot temps. It won't wash out .

[teamnelson]

don, I've noticed the CZ design seems to have thought about gloved operators, while many others have not.


I deployed to Norway many moons ago, up near Narvik for a NATO exercise. They gave us some of that white grease to use on our weapons - great stuff! Always wondered where I might get some of that to keep around.

[smokehouserex]

 
 
  Hello TeamNelson:
 
  Try your NAPA auto parts house,  it's called lith-ease, 2 oz tube. Been using it for years after having a bolt action FTF when it was down below 0 temp once.
 
  HM

[SHOOTALL]

Tape over the muzzle keeps snow and ice out also.
Car wax will protect the finish on both metal and wood.

[Empty Quiver]

My main problem is fogging optics. Bino's forget about it, scope, hold my breath and hurry up about it. Eyeglasses, with a face mask of any sort forget about it, the eyes are Okay with out glasses but do get fatigued much faster, half a day and they are shot. I would be interested in good solutions. 

[SHOOTALL]

If you have a welding supply near they often have an anti fog solution or stick that is applied to welding shield lenses that works well. If not check on line.

[tacklebury]

Typically the solution is just silicone based spray.  Zeiss and several others make little wipes I like which are handy to carry around.  My EAA Tanfoglio has a much larger trigger guard and works pretty well with basic gloves.  Really hard core snow mobile gloves up here don't work well.  I usually wear a pair of think "strip search" gloves underneath my heavy mittens and pull my hand out to shoot.  Thin glove gives you a few minutes before fingers start freezing to get shots off.    I normally take my rig off and hang it in the back porch area so it doesn't warm up and condense too much.  I hunt on my dad's land though, so there's no issue of someone coming onto the back porch.  If they do there's more guns inside where I am anyway.    hehe