.45-70 question

[GH1]

  Right now I'm using 25 gr of AA5744 with a 405 gr bullet for a velocity of 1275fps or so. This charge gets me about 280 rounds from a 1 lb can.
  If I were to use Trail Boss, a max charge of 13 gr will get me about 1000 fps and approximately 302 rounds from a 9 oz can. A 9 oz can of TB is about $16.00, whereas a lb of 5744 is about $25.00, so there's definately some savings to be had.
  My question is, does a 405 gr bullet @ 1000 fps have enough power to kill a deer @ short ranges? The area I hunt is hilly and densely wooded; a shot of 25 yards is about all that is possible before the trees obscure the target.
 I believe this load will do it's job assuming I do mine, but I would like a few more opinions on it.
Thanks.
GH1
 

[Swampman]

If you're looking to save money and get better accuracy you'd be better off with Unique.  You can get nearly twice the number of rounds and 1250 fps.

[Ranch13]

If you get right down to real mathematics, trailboss isn't saving you anything, it does cost you in the velocity ,trajectory and accuracy.
 

[Smokin Joe]

does a 405 gr bullet @ 1000 fps have enough power to kill a deer @ short ranges?

To answer your question, a 405 @ 1000 will pole-axe any deer that walks the earth.

[Doublebass73]

does a 405 gr bullet @ 1000 fps have enough power to kill a deer @ short ranges?

To answer your question, a 405 @ 1000 will pole-axe any deer that walks the earth.

Definitely.

[shot1]

Yes a 405 gr bullet at 1000 fps will kill a deer but it will not pole axe one unless you hit the CNS brain, spine. Your bullet will poke a hole all the way through a deer from most any angle and unless you hit bone the deer will run off a ways and you may not get much of a blood trail and it may run off a ways even if you hit bone. Been there and done that.

[GH1]

Thanks for all the replies eveeryone, now can someone please explain the term "pole-axe"?
GH1

[Swampman]

"The poleaxe in that spelling, refers to an animal culling device of similar appearance. It was swung so the spike struck the animal, normally cattle, in the forehead. Hence also the phrase 'to be poleaxed' referring to being stunned. This term does not seem to appear before the 19th century."

[GH1]

Thanks for clearing that up.
GH1

[Ranch13]

Onething that is quite interesting , go to Hogdons webdata , got to the 45-70 trapdoor loads and then specify just the 405 gr bullet. What it will show you is that of all the powders they list, trailboss has the highest pressures and lowest velocity, there are a number of powders that produce several hundred fps more, at half the pressure of trailboss.Less pressure translates into longer case life, less wear and tear on the gun and the shooter.

[keith44]

Hi GH1,
Since you are looking at numbers to determine costs, other than velocity there will also be trajectory and energy changes.  The trajectory I can't give hard numbers on, but your point blank range will be reduced to around 70 yards.  Since you hunt heavy cover this may not be a factor.  That leaves energy (ft.lbs.).  This you will likely notice first.  If you are shooting cast bullets, and shoot only broadside or slightly angling shots you will be fine.  If you tend to shoot moving, raking and hard quartering shots it might be an issue.  Your load at 1,275 gives a muzzle energy of 1,462 ft lbs. If you reduce your velocity to 1,000 fps your muzzle energy drops to 900 ft lbs.  This puts you into .44 magnum pistol ranges.  Yes this will easily kill deer, but shot placement is the key.  You will need to re-learn the trajectory, and be more picky about your shots.

[GH1]

  The more I think about it I'll probably stick with the 5744. It's a good powder and I like the way it shoots. I was just thinking that I didn't need all that power given the close ranges I typically hunt at, and since I have plenty of TB on hand I thought I'd give it a try.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
GH1