Author Topic: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...  (Read 940 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

TM7

  • Guest
Dr. Roberts claims Dr. Paul needs to distance himself from libertarian-conservative handlers on a few points.....i.e. if wants to stand apart from the RINO-Obama cliques.....and if he wants to win the election......fyi...TM7..
.
 Monday, January 23, 2012    More On Ron Raul by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts   
Global Research, January 23, 2012
 paulcraigroberts.com
.

If Ron Paul’s libertarian handlers and support base could escape their ideology, Ron Paul could be much better positioned to win the Republican nomination.

Here are some suggestions.

Ron Paul should be making the point that Social Security and Medicare are threatened by multi-trillion dollar wars that are funded by debt, by bailouts of a deregulated banking system, and by money creation to keep the banks afloat. Libertarians support deregulation, but their position has always been that deregulated industries must not be bailed out with public subsidies, much less subsidies that are so extensive that they threaten government solvency and the value of the currency.

Instead of hitting hard on the serious threat to Social Security and Medicare posed by Obama and Republican candidates for the nomination, all of whom serve Wall Street, the military/security complex, and the Israel Lobby, Ron Paul has been positioned both by his supporters and his opponents as the danger to Social Security and Medicare. This is an amazing strategic mistake by the Ron Paul campaign.

The mistake is somewhat understandable. Ron Paul’s supporters are mainly among the young. The importance to them of Social Security and Medicare will not register for many years, but for the vast majority of the population Social Security and Medicare are essential for survival. A candidate who is positioned as the destroyer of what scant economic protection the American elderly have is not positioned to win an election for president.

Many libertarians regard Social Security and Medicare as welfare handouts and as Ponzi schemes, when in fact these programs are a form of private property. People pay for these programs all their working lives, just as they pay premiums for private medical policies and make their deposits into private pension plans. Libertarians are great defenders of private property, so why don’t they defend the elderly’s private property rights in Social Security and Medicare benefits? Social Security and Medicare are contracts that government made with citizens. These contracts are as valid and enforceable as any other contracts. If Social Security and Medicare are in dire trouble, why is the government wasting trillions of dollars in behalf of private armaments industries, a neocon ideology, and Israel’s territorial ambitions? Why isn’t this question the most important issue in the campaign?

Instead, in a decade that has seen two massive stock market crashes and an amazing amount of financial fraud, libertarians prattle on about privatizing Social Security and about how much larger the retirement pensions would be. They speak about delaying the Social Security retirement age to 70 without any thought to what a person does who is retired by his employer at 65. People who suggest making Social Security and Medicare off limits until people reach 70 need to have a look at the cost of private medical plans for older people. A group plan with Blue Cross Blue Shield Florida for a 64-year old woman has a $18,000 premium, large deductibles per medical issue, and a 20% co-pay. Even a person with private insurance faces potentially ruinous health care expenses.

Libertarians will not wait to think before they inform me that private savings are funded but Social Security and Medicare are not. They are incorrect on both accounts.

Social Security and Medicare are funded with a payroll tax. It is true that the government has stolen the funds, spent them, and left non-marketable IOU’s in their place. But in our deregulated casino financial system with street registration of “securities,” the same thing happens to private holdings. Where is the money that individuals had in MF Global? What happened to people’s savings invested with Madoff? What happened to Enron’s investors? Can AIG make good on its promises to pay the benefits that people have purchased? Can banks whose balance sheets are loaded with subprime derivatives make good on their depositors’ accounts? US government debt is a component of many private pension plans. How secure are the values of Treasury bonds?

The notion that free unregulated markets are totally trustworthy is the enormous mistake that former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan made, for which American and European peoples continue to pay. Libertarians endorse this fantastic mistake to the hilt.

This is not meant to be an attack on libertarians. Rather, it is an explanation of some of their mistakes. There is much to admire about libertarians. They believe in civil liberty, that is, in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. They understand that government cannot substitute for the market. I know a lot about libertarians. I was associated with them for years, serving for several years as Distinguished Scholar at the Cato Institute until I was run off for independent thinking.

Libertarians are sectarian, and their tolerance does not extend beyond their ideology. The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector. They will abuse their power regardless of where they perch. That is why government needs to be tied down by the Constitution and the private sector by regulation. Yes, regulation can go too far. Certainly, deregulation has gone too far.

The ongoing financial crisis from deregulation and ongoing jobs crisis from offshoring constitute empirical evidence that the belief is false that an unfettered private sector is the source of all good.

Some readers misunderstood the point of my previous column, “America’s Last Chance.” I am endorsing the U.S. Constitution and making the point that Ron Paul is the only candidate for president in either party who is committed to resurrecting the Constitution. Without the Constitution we cease to be American citizens and become subjects of a tyrannical police state. My complaint is that the only candidate who could bring back the Constitution cannot be elected because of the inflexibility and sectarianism of his base. Possibly there are more worthy third party candidates, but they have no prospect of visibility. Ron Paul is visible, and the opportunity is going to waste.

I hope readers will spare me their comments about how important their various single issues are. There are many important things. The question is: what is the over-riding important thing?

Civil Liberty, essentially the accountability of government to law that serves to protect the innocent, is the historic achievement of the English over many centuries from its beginnings with the foundation for common law established by Alfred the Great in the 9th century through Magna Carta in the 13th century to the Glorious Revolution in the 17th century. If this human achievement is lost, it is unlikely to be resurrected. If the Constitution that Bush and Obama have murdered stays in its grave one more presidential term, no one will be able to re-establish the Constitution’s authority.

And please, no prattle from libertarians about “natural rights.” The only rights we have are rights achieved by centuries of human struggle that we have the wits and strength to retain.

And no prattle from left-wingers who denounce the Constitution for not protecting slaves and native Indians. The Constitution did not establish universal justice. The Constitution protected the people covered by it. Over time rights were extended. During the past decade the Constitution lost its power. Today rights depend on the subjective opinion of the executive branch. This is tyranny. We should be unified in our opposition to tyranny.

Paul Craig Roberts is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research Articles by Paul Craig Roberts

Offline BBF

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10042
  • Gender: Male
  • I feel much better now knowing it will get worse.
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 06:22:25 AM »
Excellent article, thanks for posting it. :)
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline BUGEYE

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10268
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 09:53:09 AM »
It was interesting and made a point that I've talked about.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2012, 04:08:50 PM »

 
I hope readers will spare me their comments about how important their various single issues are. There are many important things. The question is: what is the over-riding important thing?

Paul Craig Roberts is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research Articles by Paul Craig Roberts

Single issues, that is a key. So many are so narrowly focused they won't even read an article of this length. As last chances slip on past. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline nw_hunter

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5204
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 07:16:39 PM »
I like Dr Roberts and read everything I find online written by him.. He was in the Reagan adm. as Ass. Sec of the Treasury, and one of the co-sponsors of Reaganomics.

While I agree with him in part, one must remember Paul is a strict Constitutionalist. And that comes first with him. He simply will not compromise, and that causes some to hesitate about voting for him.

I've found myself wishing he would tone some things down, but that wouldn't be RP if he did.Roberts also carries some baggage with him that wouldn't help Paul in this run for the White House.
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline Empty Quiver

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 07:29:17 PM »
I don't think he wants to win.


 He wants to make his points in a national forum. Winning strategies are not lost on a politician, or his campaign staff.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 07:44:31 PM »
I don't see being a strict constitutionalist as being one issue. That constitution covers all the laws of this land.
 
If it is considered one issue it would have to be the "destruction of the constitution" one section at a time, states rights, imminent domain, gun ownership, imprisonment without charge or trial, the list keeps growing.
 
The "one issue" is in the mind of the voter that stops that voter from choosing a candidate that offers many solutions by following the constitution.
 
This isn't about curb appeal, we aren't buying a used car or a house, it is about getting someone that has one story for his history and it doesn't change. The slick willies can change stories daily and people will follow them because they look good on television with their peroxide smile and a message that reflects the polls.
 
Look at pictures of older times, people weren't sitting around grinning. That is false front we have been taught to accept by media. In older times people were harder judges of values, the times were hard. We had better study what candidates say and what they do. If we aren't careful times will get harder that ever and in ways that we aren't familiar with.
 
ear
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 08:01:36 PM »
I don't think he wants to win.


 He wants to make his points in a national forum. Winning strategies are not lost on a politician, or his campaign staff.

I don't understand the "Winning strategies are not lost on a politician, or his campaign staff" part.
 
Much as you said, form listening to Rand Paul on a radio show I don't think RP expects to win, he is trying to bring some reality back to this country by fighting for the constitution and getting some issues recognized by the Republican party before it is too late.
 
ear
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline Empty Quiver

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2847
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 08:44:10 PM »
By that I meant that he should well know that he could gain lots of votes simply bending his ideology to fit whatever room he is in. He refuses to do so, and while commendable it will indeed lose this election for him.


I conclude from that standpoint, he does not care to win. He does want to bring to the forefront his points though and is therefore still campaigning.


Can you name a couple of national level politicians who have not compromised there integrity to get elected?
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2012, 12:55:33 AM »
By that I meant that he should well know that he could gain lots of votes simply bending his ideology to fit whatever room he is in. He refuses to do so, and while commendable it will indeed lose this election for him.


I conclude from that standpoint, he does not care to win. He does want to bring to the forefront his points though and is therefore still campaigning.


Can you name a couple of national level politicians who have not compromised there integrity to get elected?

+1, which ever way the wind blows. ear
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline jimster

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2237
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 06:33:57 AM »
Quote
Can you name a couple of national level politicians who have not compromised there integrity to get elected?

I can't hardly find a voter who has not compromised their integrity to get someone elected.
 
We get what we deserve.

Offline BUGEYE

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10268
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 06:45:17 AM »
When the campaigning started, my wife and I took a serious look at Ron Paul and would probably have voted for him. but, when I mentioned something about another candidate, the name calling started.  one member even called me stupid.
Ron Paul didn't turn us off, his followers did.
only lately has some of his followers tried to actually explain his stance on the issues.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline Cuts Crooked

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 02:58:05 PM »
Quote
I can't hardly find a voter who has not compromised their integrity to get someone elected.
 
We get what we deserve.

+1
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Val

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2012, 04:23:36 AM »
His head buried in the sand on the international front is his downfall. In this extremely complex global economy, that approach will not work for our Country.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline rio grande

  • Trade Count: (39)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 06:07:07 AM »
The article is a thinly veiled hit against Dr. Paul.  5 minutes of research shows plainly that Paul would continue Social Security for seniors, and for those young people who wish to stick with it, while allowing those who want to get out of it to do so.
http://ronpaulmyths.com/social-issues.php

And Val, as far as the 'international front' and the 'global economy' go, how is our current interventionist war policy working for you?  Keep spending trillions of borrowed dollars on useless and counterproductive foreign adventures and soon there won't be any need to debate Social Security - there will simply be no money to pay for it.

Dr. Paul understands bringing the troops home will ensure more prosperity and peace for Americans. 

Offline Val

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 10:46:55 AM »
The article is a thinly veiled hit against Dr. Paul.  5 minutes of research shows plainly that Paul would continue Social Security for seniors, and for those young people who wish to stick with it, while allowing those who want to get out of it to do so.
http://ronpaulmyths.com/social-issues.php

And Val, as far as the 'international front' and the 'global economy' go, how is our current interventionist war policy working for you?  Keep spending trillions of borrowed dollars on useless and counterproductive foreign adventures and soon there won't be any need to debate Social Security - there will simply be no money to pay for it.

Dr. Paul understands bringing the troops home will ensure more prosperity and peace for Americans.
.
Actually, I think Dr. Roberts is a staunch supporter of RP claiming he is the only hope left for the USA lest we fall completely into a Police Securitate State.  I think his comments are aimed at some RP supporters/staff needing some adjustment or claity in things and to cut thru some mythology.
 
..TM7
I never said I agree with everything that is being done today. I just don't think isolationism is a good approach. Much goes on today on the international scene that I'm diametrically opposed to.. My fist actions would be to level the playing field in international trade so we weren't allowing US companies to get a raw deal. I would also stop much international aide. For instance aide to China and to Countries that oppose the US in the international arena.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline Val

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 05:42:39 AM »
Well Val, I suggest that militaruism is actually isolationism...it puts you at odds with the rest of the world and you can not be trusted. RP wants no foreign entanglements or endless GWOT.  Thus opening up the world to trade and free exchange....its a good idea.
 
..TM7
I flatly reject your statement that the entire rest of the world is against the US position on international issues. The US has many allies that stand with us. Yes, most of the culturally retarded Muslim nations are against us because their religion dictates that they conquer other lands and convert them to Islam or kill them, the US and it's allies stand against this. Since the lunatic fringe left wingers prevent the US from becoming energy independent (renewable energy is not cost effective and won't work) we indeed have to insure the flow of energy to the free world. Man caused global warming is pure BS and used to rally the ingnorant to prevent energy independance.  There is unrefutable geological evidence showing cycles of global cooling (ice ages) and global warming, and all of a sudden man is responsible for global warming at this time. Back in the 1920s or there abouts the lunatic fringe sky is falling contingent were screaming that an ice age is occuring. Thirty years ago the world was going to end because of holes in the ozone layer. The sky is falling lefties go from one sky is falling crisis to the nex,t in order to rally the ignorant to send money.
There are rare earth elements required in the manufacture of Solar panels and wind tutbine magnets. China has a virtual monopoly on these rare earth elements. Renewable enrgey (if it works) would only get out of Arab dependence for energy to Chinese dependence for energy. Unfortunately the lefties have an incredibly narrow focus and cannot grasp the big picture. They are incapble of grasping the concept that an action in one area has major impacts in other areas.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline Val

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 846
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 06:58:32 AM »
The issue is not just the shortage of oil. it's about a stable price for oil not at the whim of OPEC. It's about the impact that higher oil prices have on the cost of gas which impacts our citizens severely. It's about the negative balance of payments with tens of billions to purchase foreign oil. It's about billions of dollars of  going to countries that sponsor terrorism against Western Nations (not just American dollars). It's about the tens of thousands of jobs that would result if we worked our energy resources toward energy independance. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of pipelines all over America. Suddenly Obummer rejects the Keystone shovel ready pipeline to satisfy the lunatic fringe environmentalist? Is Obummer serious about jobs? I don't think so.
In the past, Obummer cited Spains quest for green energy as the footprint to follow. Recently, Spain gave up, citing the incredible tax subsidies they could no longer afford. In Spain for every green job created, they lost 2.2 non green jobs.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline BUGEYE

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10268
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 09:40:11 AM »
That was obama who WANTED $5 gas to force us to become greenie weenies.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline charles p

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2374
  • Gender: Male
Re: Dr. Roberts: Ron Paul's Big Mistake if he wants to win election...
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 09:47:07 AM »
We can never return to an isolationist government or society.  Paul should know this but he seems to favor it in spite of what he already knows.