Author Topic: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures  (Read 1293 times)

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Offline LanceR

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Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« on: January 23, 2012, 12:45:09 PM »
I noticed from a few of the longer threads that quite a number of us have Savage 10ML IIs.  How about a thread on tips, techniques and procedures (TTPs) you've found helpful.  It could be anything from part or component sources, amaintenance related a tuning tip, etc.  You make the call.

I'll ante up.

For a drop dead waterproof and fumble proof powder speed loader try a fired large capacity cartridge case such as a 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag or 338 Win Mag.  It'll hold all the smokeless powder you'll ever need.  Go to the local auto parts joint and get some snug to tight fitting rubber vacuum line caps (about $0.60 each) and you are all set.

The case has a funnel built in, can't fall down the bore and is drop dead waterproof. 

Who's got the next TTP?

Lance

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 01:08:37 PM »
http://www.lcmlab.com/12x75mm_Polypropylene_Plastic_Tubes_p/207-0025w.htm

This is what I use for powder. I ordered the 250 pack for about ten bucks. Many color options. They are very durable and seal very tight. I scale powder in a variety of weights and store vials in separate labeled containers for range testing. 44 grains of 5744 fills one of these about 2/3 full.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline LanceR

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »
Randy Wakeman uses those.  The stopper he uses has a hollow on the inside and he sticks a primer there with a dot of hot melt glue.  That keeps it dry and handy.

Lance

Offline rick59

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 02:31:12 AM »
http://www.lcmlab.com/12x75mm_Polypropylene_Plastic_Tubes_p/207-0025w.htm

This is what I use for powder. I ordered the 250 pack for about ten bucks. Many color options. They are very durable and seal very tight. I scale powder in a variety of weights and store vials in separate labeled containers for range testing. 44 grains of 5744 fills one of these about 2/3 full.

Cheese

Those are the same that I have used for the last 4 years.
Stay Calm, Pick Your Spot.

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 03:01:40 AM »
I use something similar,a lab grade screw top pp vial,one will hold two saboted xtp's,another sevaral primers,powder in another. Have a trick sling with a pouch that will hold four shots,plus the factory short starter.I always remove the sling and hang it close by before shooting.You can fab your own attached pouch.You can grap it up,go,and be prepared.Always mark your ramrod to indicate correct depth of seating.I always tape the muzzle and shoot through it. A four inch or so piece of fine string is attached to the tape on bottom for a quick breeze indicator.Be very consistent when weighing out powder.Morning hunts,keep the scope covered until in the blind or stand.These little things and a Henry Ball custom ,#117 of 500,have anchored many a buck for me.My 16 yr. old with my spare 10ml downed his first ML buck,a nice 7pt. this year.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 08:40:36 AM »
I have been considering using the Hornady FTX .452 in 250 grain for hunting. It has about 3 inches less drop at 200 yards then the XTP of the same weight with the same powder charge. I am concerned about ignition in very cold weather.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline simplicity

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2012, 08:54:26 AM »
Well my tip, (first off most will call me crazy and dangerous and might even get this reply yanked) What I d is I took a TC clear black powder dispenser (horn) and filled it with 5744. and I machined some alluminum tubes with specific depths. I put astep in each tube so it can only slide so far onto the spout of the powder horn. The inside diameter is the same diameter as the inside of the dispensing spout of the horn. I ekpt increasin the depth of he tube until it would throw the charge needed. I have one set for 42 grainsfor 300gr xtp and one for 44gr fo 250gr xtp.  After I got my tubes made I went through 50 dispense an weigh tests. The biggest variance I got was +/- .002 of a grain out of each tube and to me I deem that safe to use. So to make a long story short I volumetrically measure my smokeless charge just as you would with black powder. The unit I have made  it doesn't matter if it's blowing like hell or not  hence the deep step for the spout. The method I use is just set up fo 5744 an if I went to another powder I'd have to start all over again  making tubes. The ones  have are all engraved as to what weight charge and for what powder and for which bullet it is to be used with.

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2012, 01:41:44 PM »
Sounds good to me.I have a full set of the LEE dippers available(cheap) for rough work and use triple beams or a cabelas digital scale to finish.Have used extensively the 250 gr .452 XTP. The 300gr. is a stone killer, but chose the 250gr. 'cause shots get longer on our east coast(need less drop) where the season starts earlier.Cheese, I'm sure the FTX will work well,just need a diff. seating tool due to pointed bullet. To the original post,tips, I usually shoot (and zero) with the ramrod out.Some stand situations make this more difficult than others.The vent liners on 10ml's are durable but eventually need replacing.Also,after your final zero at chosen yardage,fire a 25 and 50 yd. target to see exactly where you stand at those ranges.If I get a chip shot,I will neck or head shoot.No tracking,less meat tore up.Crud,this is only the first month of the year,gotta wait a little while to do it again.

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2012, 01:49:55 PM »
Oh yeah,Cheese ,you hunt in much colder temps than me,but you have the hottest thing going for ignition. One thing I know you already do,is, don't change the temp.much of where your gun sits loaded to where it is in battery,condensation can get you. As good as the savage is,it's still a muzzleloader and still shoots basically a pistol bullet.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2012, 03:20:33 PM »
Oh yeah,Cheese ,you hunt in much colder temps than me,but you have the hottest thing going for ignition. One thing I know you already do,is, don't change the temp.much of where your gun sits loaded to where it is in battery,condensation can get you. As good as the savage is,it's still a muzzleloader and still shoots basically a pistol bullet.

I did have a failure to fire last year, while the crosshairs were in the shoulders of a nice buck. I was using other then recommended bullets and sabots per the owners manual. Because of this incident, I am cautious with other components. I will do some cold weather testing with this bullet.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline LanceR

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2012, 03:39:08 AM »
I see that a lot of the crowd are pretty experienced with these rifles but at the risk of TMI I'll add this stuff.

Accurate A5744 is the easiest to ignite cold weather powder listed for the 10ML.  It is also the most insensitive powder listed for the 10ML in terms of picking up moisture and in consistent pressure/velocities with wide temperature swings.  You can work up a load on a 90 degree day and for all practical purposes it will shoot to the same point of impact on a 0 degree day.   A5744, being a double base powder, is by it's nature going to be less sensitive to cold and moisture than single base powders.  The nitroglycerine in double base powders makes it less susceptible to moisture and easier to ignite than single base powders.  I hunt in Upstate New York where our ML season runs from around 10-20 December and use A5744 for all those reasons.

The Savage accessory kit for the 10ML (out of production now?) came with Lee powder scoops.  If anyone is interested in what sizes they were, what charges they throw and the resulting velocities I'll post that info.  They show data for the scoops for A5744, Vittavouri N110 and IMR 4227.  All the data listed uses Magnum Muzzleloading short black sabots and Hornady .452" 250 or 300 grain XTPs.  Personally, I avoided max loads using the dippers and threw those with a standard powder measure.  Lately I've been trowing all charges with a standard powder measure.

It does strike me that standard powder measures are all volumetric devices so any volumetric system that is precise and which you can use consistently enough should be safe but it is up to each of us to decide what is the correct way to do things.

Assuming the breech plug and vent liner are clean, that you are using a full power primer and that there is no oil or solvent present the most likely cause of poor ignition is either a loose fitting sabot or that the sabot is not fully seated.  The 10ML seems to like about 30-35 pounds of sabot seating pressure to have it's most consistent velocity and ignition results.  You can seat a few sabots with the gun sitting on a bathroom scale and the breech plug out to check what your results are.  More seating pressure is OK as long as you aren't needing a hammer to seat the sabot.  I have noted that the Crushed Rib sabots don't follow the 30-35 pound trend.

Avoid any primer listed as a muzzleloading primer.  They are reduced power primers intended to cut down on blowback from poorly sealed breeches with 777 and the like.  CCI 209M, Federal 209A and Winchester 209 primers are the best of the commonly available primers.  You want the most energetic primers you can get for smokeless powder and the CCI and Federal ones trend as the most energetic.

As far as a great ramrod I bought one of the Spinjag ramrods for the 10ML and liked it so much I got another one for my .45 carbine.  I had to move the ramrod thimble for the carbine to clear the tip of the rod, though.   They are a great value and seat any shape bullet without marring it.

http://www.spinjag.com/giramrod.php

http://www.chuckhawks.com/spinjag_ramrod.htm

I cut the fingertips off of a few pairs of latex surgical gloves each season and keep a few of them in my pocket with the reloading stuff.  As muzzle covers they keep the water out and are fast to replace.  I have shot with them on at the range and have not yet had any otherwise unexplained flyers so they sure don't seem to affect the bullets.

If you have milkweed in your neck of the woods a film can of milkweed fluff is a great wind indicator.  A tiny pinch of the stuff drifts for what seems like forever and remains easy to see at quite long distances.  It is especially illuminating in what seems to be still or very slight breeze conditions.  I use it more for early archery hunting than muzzleloading since our ML season is late and the cold makes scent much less of an issue.

As most of you likely know there is a lot of info on the 10ML at:  http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

Thankfully, the People's Republic of New York doesn't care if you have iron sights or a scope, matchlock, flintlock, in-line etc or what powder or bullet you use.  As long as you stuff it from the front and use a single projectile you are good to go.  It's one thing at least that the legislature hasn't screwed up.

chefjeff, when you say there is less meat tore up with a neck shot are you comparing it to a shoulder shot?  I ask since I can get two good rolled roasts from the neck of an adult deer but only lose a few ounces of burger scrapings from the ribs with a heart/lung shot unless I get down into the brisket.  I have taken a few shoulder shots when I needed to anchor a deer in bad weather or very late in the day but sure don't like to loose that much meat.

Lance

Offline chefjeff

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Re: Savage 10ML tips, techniques and procedures
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 04:21:13 AM »
Hey Lance,I like to shoot the white patch ,just under the jaw,if possible.Truly,a double lung shot doesnt mess up much meat,but the animal will typically run a little.Some of the thick stuff I hunt,I want them down quickly.A high neck or head shot is easier and neater when its cleaning time.I only do this with a close shot though.Thanks for the tips,good luck to everyone next season!