Author Topic: 148 gr Double Base Wadcutters ( update ) (Read 2322 times)

irold · « **on:** January 25, 2012, 12:33:56 PM »

Evening gentleman

I've recently been trying various cast bullets from Oregon Trail. So far all have performed great. I ordered some of their 148 gr DBWC in .38 cal, figuring I'd use them in my .357. The only data I can dig up has been for the .38 special case. I recently read in " Reloading for Handgunners ", by Patrick Sweeney, that I can use any .38 data in my .357 case by adding 10 % to make up the difference in case volume. Sounds logical.....but I like second opinions. What do ya think ? Surely someone out there loads .38 special loads in their .357 cases ? Do I even have to add anything to make up the difference in the case volume ? Thanks for your thoughts. ( as an after thought , I also purchased Oregon Trails new 1st Edition loading manual , great source of information. I'd suggest it if ya load O.T cast. )

regards , irold

Larry L · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2012, 04:34:52 PM »

What powders do you have? I have lots of data for those bullets in a 357 case at 38 special velocities. None of my data will require any filler.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2012, 12:03:59 AM »

I am not being to be demeaning here..

But the wad cutter was designed to be fired in the 38 Spl case. Its design greatly reduces case capacity so light charges of fast powder can safely can be used. Loading them in a 357 mag case serves no purpose and frankly is counter productive. As 38's can be shot in the vast majority of 357 mag chambered firearms, simply load them in the 38 spl ...

Again, unless you need the case length for proper function, the 38 spl case is what you should be using.

CW

irold · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2012, 07:40:40 AM »

Hi Larry ,

At present I have / use Bullseye , Unique , 2400 , . Those are my go to powders. Thanks , irold

huntducks · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2012, 05:09:36 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on January 26, 2012, 12:03:59 AM

I am not being to be demeaning here..

But the wad cutter was designed to be fired in the 38 Spl case. Its design greatly reduces case capacity so light charges of fast powder can safely can be used. Loading them in a 357 mag case serves no purpose and frankly is counter productive. As 38's can be shot in the vast majority of 357 mag chambered firearms, simply load them in the 38 spl ...

Again, unless you need the case length for proper function, the 38 spl case is what you should be using.

CW

I was going to pound out the same thing on my keyboard THANKS and I agree.

Larry L · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2012, 08:37:36 AM »

In 357 Mag cases loaded to 38 Special velocities with a 148gr DBWC using CCI 500 standard primers, the following loads which are not max loads but plinkers.

11.0 grs 2400 = 980'ps averagely- extremely dirty and is not a load I use
3.5 grs Bullseye 900'ps averagely- fabulous load
4.0 grs Unique- 850'ps averagely- my plinker load. Burns relatively clean versus others.

My pistols that I use these loads in are Colt Pythons. All are capable of ragged hole groups at 25 yards from bags using the Bullseye or Unique loads. The 2400 was maybe an inch or a hair larger. If you have any 231 around, 4.0 grs gives you 950'ps averagely and is also extremely accurate. None of the above are near max loads and the data comes from manuals out of my library of many.

Savage · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2012, 03:10:44 PM »

I'm not familiar with a "Double Base" wadcutter, but I'm sent a couple of wheelbarrow loads of "Hollow Base" wadcutters down range with 3.2grs of BullsEye behind them. In 38spl cases of course.
Savage

cwlongshot · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2012, 01:52:28 AM »

Quote from: Savage on January 27, 2012, 03:10:44 PM

I'm not familiar with a "Double Base" wadcutter, but I'm sent a couple of wheelbarrow loads of "Hollow Base" wadcutters down range with 3.2grs of BullsEye behind them. In 38spl cases of course.
Savage

It's just a cylindrical projectile. Or DEWC. Heavier and able to withstand more velocity. Where the hollow base wad cutter HBWC is lighter and limited to light loads or possibility of tearing off skirt going thru the forcing cone. (not a real issue in a handi).

CW

irold · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2012, 02:11:05 AM »

Thanks Larry ,

Looking at the loads you provided , they're very close to that 10% increase that Sweeney refered to in his book. I'll give them a try. Thanks again.

CW and Huntducks ,

You may be right , however in my experience ( limited as it may be ), I've found my .357 revolvers ( Smith 66 , 686 , Colt trooper and Ruger blackhawk) all shoot better using the .357 cases. Also there is the issue of the gunk/lead ring in the cylinder ahead of a .38 special case. And yes, I do clean my cylinders regularly , it is a non issue for me , but its really a non issue using .357 cases. Anytime I can use the mag case ,whether its in my 44s or .357s I do. Addressing the DBWC designed for the .38 case.....yes , thats correct. Perhaps thats why Mr. Sweeney suggests a 10 % increase in the .38 special loads...to account for the difference in case capacity ? To each his own

regards , irold

anachronism · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2012, 09:49:14 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on January 26, 2012, 12:03:59 AM

I am not being to be demeaning here..

But the wad cutter was designed to be fired in the 38 Spl case. Its design greatly reduces case capacity so light charges of fast powder can safely can be used. Loading them in a 357 mag case serves no purpose and frankly is counter productive. As 38's can be shot in the vast majority of 357 mag chambered firearms, simply load them in the 38 spl ...

Again, unless you need the case length for proper function, the 38 spl case is what you should be using.

CW

I disagree with you. It is entirely possible, and even likely that using target loads in 357 cases, in a 357 chamber could enhance accuracy by reducing the amount of unsupported bullet travel from the case to the rifling. This would be 1/10th of an inch of unnecessary, and easily avoided freebore. DEWCs are short for their weight, compared to HBWCs, and use of the longer case could really be an advantage. I get better accuracy from my 357 chambered revolvers with magnum cases, as opposed to shooting specials in the magnum chambers, and gun cleanup is easier too, since I don't have to deal with that fouling ring that forms when 38 Spls are fired in magnum chambers.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2012, 10:15:15 AM »

I figured sooner or later the "crud ring" argument would turn up...

Dont forget, this has a neg effect on accuracy as well as the ability to load longer cases.... Just because your shooting mag cases dosen't get you around "crud ring" accuracy problems...

I have a couple barrels chambered for the 357Maxi...all shoot 38 spls... wanna talk about that bullet jump...

If it works for you, load it and enjoy. But know, (Or wonder why) there is a reason you do not find data...

CW

mbopp · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:55:28 PM »

I used 4.3gr of Unique in 357 cases with DEWC's in my 4" M-19.

And I seated the bullets long, lightly crimping them in the lube groove so you had to push them into the chamber the last few thousands or so. Not ideal for quick reloading but it did give me the best accuracy, maybe due to a shorter jump to the barrel?

irold · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »

Thanks , good thought from all. Gonna give Bullseye and Unique a try.

regards , irold

Hafast · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:20:16 AM »

I have used 148gr DEWCs loaded over 4.1gr Unique since 1983. These are loaded flush in 357 Mag brass. Very accurate and low recoil.

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:22:42 AM »

I use 4 grains of Unique.

Savage · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:14:11 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on January 28, 2012, 01:52:28 AM

Quote from: Savage on January 27, 2012, 03:10:44 PM
I'm not familiar with a "Double Base" wadcutter, but I'm sent a couple of wheelbarrow loads of "Hollow Base" wadcutters down range with 3.2grs of BullsEye behind them. In 38spl cases of course.
Savage

It's just a cylindrical projectile. Or DEWC. Heavier and able to withstand more velocity. Where the hollow base wad cutter HBWC is lighter and limited to light loads or possibility of tearing off skirt going thru the forcing cone. (not a real issue in a handi).

CW

Ok, Thanks.
I called those solid base wadcutters. 158gr. Loaded a few of those as well.
Savage

cwlongshot · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2012, 07:20:38 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 03, 2012, 03:22:42 AM

I use 4 grains of Unique.

Is this a 38 or a 357 loading??

CW

huntducks · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2012, 11:10:33 AM »

My 38 WC load is 2.7grs of Bullseye.

Here are 4 WC that I load the one on the left is a 148gr HBWC (factory bullet) the other 3 are all casted by me.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2012, 12:43:23 PM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on February 03, 2012, 07:20:38 AM

Quote from: Swampman on February 03, 2012, 03:22:42 AM
I use 4 grains of Unique.
Is this a 38 or a 357 loading??

CW

Yes

irold · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:43:58 PM »

Just a follow up....I tried Bullseye and Unique...settled on 4.5 grains of Unique in the mag case. I'm happy. Was fired from my Smith, model 66. I chronied it at 956 fps for a 5 shot string. Thanks for all the info.

regards , irold

spinafish · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:13:30 PM »

well...that should work!

tacklebury · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:17:52 PM »

Very nice.

I'm using 4.2 here in .38 specials.